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IDontSkateTooGood

Bauer Supreme - Supreme pain and discomfort

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I've only recently taken up ice skating. I used to do a bit of it in my younger years so I'm not a total novice but I'd be lying if I could say I'd skate well (see username). I skate recreationally, nothing serious. I got sick of the luck-of-the-draw rental skates at the rink and decided to pull the trigger on my own set. 

Anyway, on to the issue - I was "fitted" at the local store (who admittedly didn't really give me a lot of choices in both terms of size nor range) into a size "7 R" Bauer Supreme S160 skate.

Unfortunately every time I've tried to go ice skating I found that they are VERY painful. I started skating with my normal socks, and after about 10-15 minutes it was too painful to continue, I have to stop, remove skates and just sit for a bit. Even taking the weight off my feet doesn't alleviate the pain - I have to fully remove the skate to allow my foot to "decompress". I then tried with the thinnest pair of socks I own - same story. The only thing that makes a difference is going barefoot. It's still uncomfortable but I can at least tolerate it. 

Total skate this time in this skate at this stage I'd say is 3-4 hours. I've read it takes 10+ hours to break in a skate, but seriously I can't see myself punishing my feet like that for another 6 hours. 

The heel area is fine & the toebox area is fine. The most painful part is the sides of the foot where the arch & ball are. I am feeling excessive pressure from the sides - it feels like someone has got my foot in a vice and just won't let go. If I tie my skates a little bit looser it helps, but then it impacts my skating ability. The front-to-back fit is perfect - I've got a tiny little amount of room on the toe box region (my toes are NOT hard up against the inside of the boot).

Is this thing sized wrong for me? The issue is a skate feels differently when you try it on in the shop... hell it even feels fine when you try them for a few minutes on the ice but its total agony after about 15 minutes...

Any insight appreciated. For all I know this could be normal? Sure don't feel like it though.

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Diagnosing things like this can be tricky. But off the top of my head, It sounds a like you could be tying your skates too tight. But sometimes the reason people tie their skates too tight is because they're too big for them. A half-size too large can make a big difference, at least that's what i find. Funny, I notice this isn't an uncommon subject to come up around here. 

Here's a link to a post I made in a different thread. It's got some resources for sizing yourself up at home to see if you're at least in the right ballpark.

If your sizing is right, it could be you need some more arch support, or you can try different lacing strategies, like leaving the bottoms a little looser while tying the top tight. 

Or you can try a compeltely differernt lacing pattern. Here's a resource on different lacing methods

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/lacingmethods.htm

 

Sometimes it's just a matter of trial and error to figure out what's at the bottom of the issue. Best strategy IMHO is to change one thing to see if it works before trying the next.

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Thanks for the response. Interesting you should post that video, I did find that very one in my search for fitting.

Unfortunately I only spotted this video AFTER I'd bought skates and they weren't fitting right. According to the video, my left foot comes out at 2.48 and my right at 2.50. According to this sizing guide:

Quote

Width Sizing

If the number is larger than 2.65, a normal width or D width, should be fine (much higher than 2.65, a width of C should be fine). If the number is between 2.5 and 2.65, try a wide or E width.  If the number is under 2.5, an EE or extra-wide width may be best.

  • C=narrow
  • D=standard
  • R=Wider than D
  • E=Wide
  • EE=widest (2 10th s of an inch in difference)

via http://www.hockeytutorial.com/uncategorized/ice-hockey-skate-sizing-chart-width-and-length/

So according to this I need EE? As a person of small stature this is entirely surprising to me.

So what now? Did I basically piss money away on these skates? 

Edited by IDontSkateTooGood

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From what you describe might be in too narrow of a boot. If just a small area could punch it out to get bit more space but if most of both sides you should try the wide width version or possibly look at Nexus if staying with Bauer for overall wider and more volume boot (if you need extra volume)

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One of the simplest ways to work this out is have a look at your feet after skating. Do you have any excessive red spots (ie painful areas) on your feet. If they are on the sides then it is most likely the boots are too narrow for you. Assuming they fit you well elsewhere then I'd be going back to where you purchased them from and say they are too narrow and you want them stretched. It's not hard to do. They should really do this for free as they fitted you in these and should have checked the width of your feet with a least a brannock or some other suitable width measuring device. If they say they can't be stretched, I don't know if S160s will stretch well, then I'd be having a frank discussion with them about an exchange.

If they fit you well everywhere else but can't be stretched then don't get put into a larger volume boot (like a nexus) to fix the width issue. This will just create other issues with heel lock and sloppiness around the top of the boot. What you really want to do is pay a bit more for a higher model boot and get that stretched or find a similar fitting boot from another manufacture that has more width in it in the areas you need.

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So according to this I need EE? As a person of small stature this is entirely surprising to me.

Don't be. Your height, weight and overall frame don't always translate to the size and shape of ones foot. I'm 5'9", 165lbs and wear the widest & deepest skate Bauer makes. I know plenty of guys who are just the opposite.

you should expect some soreness when breaking in a new skate, but not pain. Lots of good advice given here and I agree, sounds like you might not be in the ideal skate. Head back to the store sooner rather than later. 

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For what it's worth, I had similar problems when I first started to skate and in my case it was mostly getting to the point where I could skate with the laces looser over the top of my feet as well as conditioning.  When I first strapped on the skates they felt fine but after about 15 minutes they became painful.  The pain wasn't localized anywhere, it was as you described... "my foot in a vice".

Now I barely snug the laces over the top of my foot and clamp down on the 3rd and 4th eyelets down (I use wax laces).  This keeps my heel locked but also allows my foot to swell a little without excessive pain.    

I don't doubt that it could be the skates are too narrow (I'm not an expert) but note that you are using your feet in a whole new way and in my case it took some time to condition them to having a blade strapped to the bottom of them. 

Cheers! :)

 

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Did you have any pain when you were using rental skates?  I started skating on ice at the beginning of the year, and I found I was having some pain based on keeping a lot of my weight on the front of the foot/blade, rather than the middle where it should be.

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@vinprun71 They don't brush the toe box, I have some small amount of room in there (fits just right). The bulk of the pain is where the arch of the foot and the ball of the foot are. Feels like it's being squeezed aggressively from both sides.

@clarkiestooth Yes I did have them baked when I bought them at the store. 

@MrBrownstone Absolutely no pain in rental skates! Discomfort sure, but definitely no "foot in vice" pain.

 

I'm going to try some new lacing techniques, specifically ones that relieve so much pressure over the instep area. Failing that I will go back to the shop an see if they can help.

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51 minutes ago, IDontSkateTooGood said:

 

I'm going to try some new lacing techniques, specifically ones that relieve so much pressure over the instep area. Failing that I will go back to the shop an see if they can help.

If you're going to try a different lacing technique, if you're interested, maybe try the one I use. I found that it allows me to leave the bottom relatively lose while the top is tight and stable and the heel is locked in. Here's a link to a post with pictures describing it.

 

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Try baking again, laces at maybe 60% tight and stand to flatten your foot out. I have width issues and this definitely helps, not perfect but 95% pain free after 2-3 bakes and a few hours of skating.

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They don't brush the toe box, I have some small amount of room in there (fits just right). The bulk of the pain is where the arch of the foot and the ball of the foot are. Feels like it's being squeezed aggressively from both sides.

If the ball of your foot feels like it's being squeezed, they are definitely not wide enough. You could also have a depth issue which would explain why your arches hurt and also why they feel a little better when you loosen your laces.

Also, if you are to the point where the pain is great enough to where you can't skate, you are probably beyond stretching and lacing tweaks.

 

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And if toes not feathering front, sounds like they might be too long.  Check out this thread:

And it does sound like they are probably too narrow.  Your height has nothing to do with foot structure.  I'm 5-6, 175 lbs, and need a wide shoe in whatever I wear.  And I have small feet, usually a men's 6.5 or 7.  I wear a size 5 skate.  I am obviously on the fringe of "normal", but I'm sure there are plenty of folks with stranger feet.

What made you go with Supremes over the other models available? 

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I found this to be a good guide when starting off:

http://newtohockey.com/hockey-skate-fitting-guide/

Were your rental skates hockey skates or generic figure/comfort type of skates?  From what you are describing, it does sound like your skates may be too narrow.  I had tried on some pairs when initially buying with that similar kind of pain after standing in for a few minutes.  Hope you find something that works for you!

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On 4/9/2017 at 6:13 PM, IDontSkateTooGood said:

Anyway, on to the issue - I was "fitted" at the local store (who admittedly didn't really give me a lot of choices in both terms of size nor range) into a size "7 R" Bauer Supreme S160 skate.

The crux of your problem is that you didnt get fitted for skates properly.  You got sold what they had, not what you needed.  A lot of shops, especially this time of year are out of a lot of the popular sizes, and few shops stock EE's consistently.  What your describing to me sounds exactly like someone who is in a too narrow skate (because I did the same thing). 

Not for nothing, even if those skates do fit you, there can be a learning curve going from a soft, compliant rental skate to a stiff hockey skate thats not fully broken in yet.  lacing techniques are important, but if your making it so loose as not to hurt, make sure your not sacrificing stability which is easy to do.  Also, what happens is that you can be getting pain as you are using  new muscles etc... I roll my foot with a lacrosse ball before skating if I notice I'm getting a little discomfort or cramping before I skate.  The different pitch of the hockey skate vs. rental skate, different profile, etc... may be causing your balance to be off, thus using more muscles, etc.... give it some more time, but at the end of the day, if the skate doesnt fit, it doesnt fit.

 

it took me months of using the wrong skates, trying to convince myself that I could figure it out with laces, insoles, punching, stretching, profiling, etc, before I just broke down and bought a pair of skates that fit, and most if not all of my problems (with pain anyways:)) went away!

good luck!

 

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2 hours ago, jgold47 said:

it took me months of using the wrong skates, trying to convince myself that I could figure it out with laces, insoles, punching, stretching, profiling, etc, before I just broke down and bought a pair of skates that fit, and most if not all of my problems (with pain anyways:)) went away!

good luck!

 

Been there too. I made a bad call and went up in size to make up for lack of width (a full size larger). Luckily I wasn't dealing with pain, but the added length was negatively affecting my skating (agility, start/stops).  I must have tried 3 or 4 different radius's/profiles, each offering little to no advantage over the other. That's when I started questioning the fit and two shops I went to said if they weren't hurting me the fit was probably OK.  

Once I was in the proper skate the difference was night and day. Sucks to have to suffer through that. I wish more shops pushed the correct fit rather than the skate they have in stock.

Edited by stick9
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Ok so I've been doing a little bit more skating, I did the "Gap Lacing" (https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/gaplacing.htm). Skipping only the one eyelet. Funnily enough my right foot no longer hurts. It's tight as hell but does not hurt. Left foot hurts a little bit. Reducing pressure over the instep seems to do the trick. Right foot 100% fine last session. I'd say I'm up to 5-6 hours of skating in these pairs now.

The pain seems to die down a bit once I actually start skating (i.e. there is weight transfer). If I just put the skate on and stand on the ice, it's agony after a few minutes. 

So maybe I'm just not used to it? Maybe the skates need to break in some more? I'll stick with it for a while longer and if it doesn't help, then I will try to go down half a size with a EE width boot and see how that pans out. 

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8 hours ago, IDontSkateTooGood said:

Ok so I've been doing a little bit more skating, I did the "Gap Lacing" (https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/gaplacing.htm). Skipping only the one eyelet. Funnily enough my right foot no longer hurts. It's tight as hell but does not hurt. Left foot hurts a little bit. Reducing pressure over the instep seems to do the trick. Right foot 100% fine last session. I'd say I'm up to 5-6 hours of skating in these pairs now.

The pain seems to die down a bit once I actually start skating (i.e. there is weight transfer). If I just put the skate on and stand on the ice, it's agony after a few minutes. 

So maybe I'm just not used to it? Maybe the skates need to break in some more? I'll stick with it for a while longer and if it doesn't help, then I will try to go down half a size with a EE width boot and see how that pans out. 

I think you do still need some time in the skate to break it in and some of what you might be feeling is somewhat normal.

If you try another skate, look for something with more volume.

Heres some reading on checking for proper depth. 

 

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On 4/18/2017 at 5:42 AM, IDontSkateTooGood said:

So maybe I'm just not used to it? Maybe the skates need to break in some more? I'll stick with it for a while longer and if it doesn't help, then I will try to go down half a size with a EE width boot and see how that pans out. 

This is exactly what I'd recommend.

I wore size 9 skates for ages, normally CCM Tacks. A few years ago I got into some 8.5EE one100 Bauer Supremes and the fit is excellent for me. Just because your foot isn't super wide doesn't mean EE will be uncomfortable. The boots on the higher end skates have next to no give and can be heat formed. It's a bit of black magic and something a lot of guys go though mate, don't take it personal.

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On 4/18/2017 at 3:42 PM, IDontSkateTooGood said:

Ok so I've been doing a little bit more skating, I did the "Gap Lacing" (https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/gaplacing.htm). Skipping only the one eyelet. Funnily enough my right foot no longer hurts. It's tight as hell but does not hurt. Left foot hurts a little bit. Reducing pressure over the instep seems to do the trick. Right foot 100% fine last session. I'd say I'm up to 5-6 hours of skating in these pairs now.

The pain seems to die down a bit once I actually start skating (i.e. there is weight transfer). If I just put the skate on and stand on the ice, it's agony after a few minutes. 

So maybe I'm just not used to it? Maybe the skates need to break in some more? I'll stick with it for a while longer and if it doesn't help, then I will try to go down half a size with a EE width boot and see how that pans out. 

Here is a really simple test, it's not perfect but it will give you a general idea. Pull the footbed out, put your foot on it. How much does your foot overlap the outside edges? If by upwards of a cm+ then the boots are most likely too narrow. Now for a defiinitve test, get some verniers and measure across the boot where your foot hurts, then measure your foot at the same place. Your foot should be around 1/2 cm smaller in size (allowing for boot material and liner). Honestly, you should not have foot pain like that, it means something is wrong with the fit.

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