Keeping the local hockey shops alive

[Playmakersedge 58]

One of the rinks 25 minutes away in the suburbs is owned by a corporation.   These rink have realised that if they put on there own programs:  power skating, learn to skate,introductory to hockey, stick and puck hours.     (1) the skating instruction is done in large groups, the instructor is a kid that took the same course  (2) stick and puck is chaos no supervision. 

The rink has two surfaces, each with bleachers on one side.      They have a gorgeous black stone machine . No one will have there skates done there . 

This would be a perfect place for me to do my drea hockey factory hear .   

I thought about my tact for a week on how to say things if i have to to make my point.  

I offered to take over the skate shop ,sharpen the rental skates ,hand them out etc as My rent  . I would set shop up there .

Skates,sticks, laces ,tape,mouth guard ,sharpening, profiling, jersies.,etc .  And the arena would be the home of play maker's edge hockey  , there is room at one end to have weight machines, shooting lanes ,balance boards   . I said I would split the power skating clinics and the monthly dues to train at playmakers edge  ,also put some order to stick time  .    

They said we already do powèr skating  . Etc . he didn't get they have no idea of what they are doing..   it was casual conversation.  I was hoping be was sick of running around.   I'm going to make another run at them in a couple  months .    It would be perfect  . And slowly win trust .

[Leif 160]

4 hours ago, Playmakersedge said:

It has always been pretty much a given that a rink sharpening is gonna suck, and goofy hours . The only rink I have been too that can sharpen is South Windsor arena and the rink is the lhs .And they are excellent.  

As general rule rink will ruin your blades. 

I've had my skates done at a local rink, and it wasn't good. Everyone says to avoid the two local rink shops. I've seen a sharpening at the other rink, and he'd left a step along the length of the hollow, where the skate wasn't high enough to allow the full width to engage the wheel. My last three sharpenings have been bad. Two at a good shop were out by 4/1000". They'd previously been good. One at another shop must have been 3/8" and not 5/8" as requested as that evening at hockey training I could barely skate. They felt too deep. Sharpening is a nightmare. I'm taking my BAT gauge to the sharpeners today! 

A LHS is going to fail, or do poorly, unless they invest in stock and provide good service. I bought mid range skates - Bauer Vapor x500 - at a local rink, and it took me months to realise they were far too big. I was constantly falling over for an unknown reason. I suspect it was because the balance point was off. I didn't try on a range of skates, doubtless because they did not have the stock. I then went to a proper shop, and tried on Bauer Vapor, Supreme and Nexus in a range of sizes and bought a Supreme one full size down from the Vapor's. The proper shop has invested a huge sum in stock. They are not cheap, but I will pay for service. I want to be sure that skates and pads fit. 

[marka 518]

Howdy,

9 hours ago, stick9 said:

Mark, the scanner shouldnt take store inventory into account. That would delegitimize the usefulness of the tool. After all, it’s a fitting tool, not a skate selling tool.

 

Yes, totally agree!  My point was that it would be better if the store had demo / try on only models of skates in those "weird" (really?  Is it really weird to have EE widths?) sizes, then could order you the actual skates.

 

Mark

[marka 518]

Howdy,

Rinks, to me, are a PERFECT place for something like a Sparx that takes minimal training to produce a good sharpening on most skates.  Way less investment than a full on machine and likely significantly better results as well.  I know I would be much more likely to hand my skates over to the unknown person if I saw a Sparx back there vs. a regular machine.

Mark

[IPv6Freely 2082]

12 hours ago, Playmakersedge said:

Wow ,that's just amazing to me . 

We only got hockey at all after Gretzky was traded here.

[IPv6Freely 2082]

2 hours ago, marka said:

Howdy,

Rinks, to me, are a PERFECT place for something like a Sparx that takes minimal training to produce a good sharpening on most skates.  Way less investment than a full on machine and likely significantly better results as well.  I know I would be much more likely to hand my skates over to the unknown person if I saw a Sparx back there vs. a regular machine.

Mark

Completely agree. Have one behind the front desk for when the pro shop is closed. 

[stick9 881]

11 hours ago, Playmakersedge said:

80's to early 90's   the guy got all my business minus sharpening. And when I ask questions about a band he thought I would destroy, he would say you don't want those you will destroy them .  I was a kid . He treated me like a pear .  

As long as you realize your ideal scenario was roughly 30 years ago. Things have changed quite a bit since then.

[Playmakersedge 58]

2 hours ago, marka said:

Howdy,

Yes, totally agree!  My point was that it would be better if the store had demo / try on only models of skates in those "weird" (really?  Is it really weird to have EE widths?) sizes, then could order you the actual skates.

 

Mark

Mark , I am also one of the weird ☺  it certainly would be nice to be able to try and use or at least walk around in the store .    Great Skate  used to supply these stores.   I think if the supplier used the lhs as a salesman  they could have more product on hand .  So I'm saying the same thing you are in different way and in a more,.....the words not coming to me ,  so will use drastic way .        

         In the automotive business I did this with NAPA auto part and isw because I was open into the night .  This way I was fixing cars when most people were home.   The auto part rep would come weekly and see what I used and bill me on that .    

Hockey wise ,I would like to have brands I can believe in and work with the maker .  Hand full of great brands.  Use knowledge and customer performance and there knowledge to evaluate brands . 

[Playmakersedge 58]

12 minutes ago, stick9 said:

As long as you realize your ideal scenario was roughly 30 years ago. Things have changed quite a bit since then.

I get they have changed.  The advent of what changed it ?  It hasn't changed for the better of the player  .   There was a point when these good lhs got pushed out .   Then they are gone ,now many can't get a sharpening job done to a acceptable standard.   

There are twelve year old kids out there that have talent,the grit, but there family can't afford to buy there own machine to sharpen .  

Did things change for the better of the sport  .

[Playmakersedge 58]

56 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

Completely agree. Have one behind the front desk for when the pro shop is closed. 

Good thought. Not with Sparx ,but it has been  done when the cag one ,dupliskate, and another brand.  Came out .The dupliskate was easy to use but it burnt the blades .  Cag one I honestly don't remember good or bad . These machines came out to take the skill out of sharpening.  

These edges were skateable but the blade lost ability to hold an edge.  

[Ps12 11]

23 hours ago, NiCnoK said:

Now that we have a vending machine for tape, I have absolutely no need for a LHS.

They can go the way of the video rental store for all I care.

A vending machine for tape is an awesome idea!!!

[Cavs019 702]

42 minutes ago, Playmakersedge said:

The advent of what changed it ?

The internet. 

[stick9 881]

41 minutes ago, Playmakersedge said:

I get they have changed.  The advent of what changed it ?  It hasn't changed for the better of the player  .   There was a point when these good lhs got pushed out .   Then they are gone ,now many can't get a sharpening job done to a acceptable standard.   

There are twelve year old kids out there that have talent,the grit, but there family can't afford to buy there own machine to sharpen .  

Did things change for the better of the sport  .

Haven’t changed for the better? Well my recollection of that period of time was if your local shop didn’t have what you wanted or fit you had two choices, go without, or settle on something else. There was the third option of cold calling ever shop to see if they had it, then drive to get it.

Today, players have way more options in terms of fit and performance. If your LHS doesn’t have what you need you can always pick up your cellphone and buy it online.

Change was inivitable, gotta deal and move on.

[215BroadStBullies610 434]

12 hours ago, Playmakersedge said:

Your point are valid.  Hear me out , doing only skate servicing and selling tape and laces ,etc . There is not enough to survive on . They need the sale of skates, shoulder pads ,elbow pads,helmets, cages etc .  This is what I'm trying to say . To save a couple bucks hear and their people are going to on line or big box store to get the best  deal.   Doing this is going to create a situation in the the person you need to service your equipment won't be there. So there won't be good sharpening service or blade change service.    Gotta let them eat . You will get other benefits from it  . Like my self walking out of the shop with 4 -6 pair of skates on trust .

Then so be it. If someone was good enough, you could run a skate servicing setup out of their garage and/or shed. Live in a central area close to several rinks and spread the word. Maybe rough at first but I think it's possible to pull off. Hockey is way too expensive for me pass up the money I save online. You get knowledgeable people at your LHS and MAYBE I give you service. It sucks for those who run them but money isn't something I feel like giving up. When I do, I better be getting a deal.

[Kgbeast 195]

I do not think LHS can exist unless it is actually a completely different thing with LHS as an added value thing on the side. For example like what Playmakeredge is talking about: skating and hockey classes which would be the real business, then sharpen skates and sell tape as a side.

Since it is impractical to stock all skates in all sizes, these should have a Bauer and ccm scanners and be a VH fitting center, so for a fee, they can fit a pair of skates without actual skates and then get them from etailer. Then when the skates showup, make sure they fit and then bake sharpen. Perhaps this kind of LHS can have an additional discount or free expedited shipping agreement with an etailer in exchange for preferential status or something like that. Basically it would be all about service only. Stock tape, protectors, laces, inserts and and other things that do not need excessive stock or investment. Also perhaps have an embroidery machine and offer some customization and repair, but that is obviously depends on the additional skillset which one may or may not poses. 

 

I just do not see any scenario for a reseller retail kind of success, that boat has sailed, keeps on going further and further out of sight with development and improvement of the manufacturing and sizing tech. Within next 10 years, even hockeymonkeys of sorts might struggle to keep their viability with manufacturers. If you can make 3d scan with your phone, what is there need to go to a shop? If mfg can make a pair of skates just for you based on the scan within hours, what is the reason to manufacture tons of generic skates and ship them around the country to collect dust?

In my industry (pro electronic equipment) no one mass produces anything. The mfg lines are no longer locked to a generic model, they now can make any model with autoretooling taking a minute if that. Most distributors are merely taking orders and arranging for a drop shipping between mfg and the end-user (or an integrator in my case)

[adam14 182]

there is also the aspect of the manufacturer cutting out the retail stores. Bauer coming out with their own location and brands like Howies or VH or MIA/Eagle to an extent  at the time that were direct to consumer instead of needing a shop to get skates or gloves or custom sticks. 

[jimmy 194]

On 12/8/2017 at 11:18 AM, 215BroadStBullies610 said:

Near impossible to do with deals out there between big box stores having huger e-commerce presences and third party sites (eBay, Sideline Swap, our very own MSH Gear Exchange, etc.). Topple that off with the pro stock market, no way LHSs can keep up with all that. What they need to focus on is customer services and provide top-notch maintenance for hockey equipment.  

Can't make enough money doing that to pay the bills.

[Monty22 821]

52 minutes ago, adam14 said:

there is also the aspect of the manufacturer cutting out the retail stores. Bauer coming out with their own location and brands like Howies or VH or MIA/Eagle to an extent  at the time that were direct to consumer instead of needing a shop to get skates or gloves or custom sticks. 

Was going to make this same point. The manufactures seem to be on a track that leads them away from reliance on LHS to sell product. Sadly, traditional shops that most of us grew up with are being killed off. Not only by the "WalMart"effect of big box stores, but also by their inability/refusal to evolve with the market place.  

[strosedefence34 175]

17 hours ago, Playmakersedge said:

It has always been pretty much a given that a rink sharpening is gonna suck, and goofy hours . The only rink I have been too that can sharpen is South Windsor arena and the rink is the lhs .And they are excellent.  

As general rule rink will ruin your blades. 

What would you consider good hours?  You have you're own skate sharpener so how can you say you have only been to one rink.  You obviously haven't tried any rinks local.  The Albany County rink shop does a pretty good job sharpening skates.  You wouldn't know though.  One of the skating coaches in the area tells his students to only go their to get their skates sharpened.

 

13 hours ago, Playmakersedge said:

One of the rinks 25 minutes away in the suburbs is owned by a corporation.   These rink have realised that if they put on there own programs:  power skating, learn to skate,introductory to hockey, stick and puck hours.     (1) the skating instruction is done in large groups, the instructor is a kid that took the same course  (2) stick and puck is chaos no supervision. 

The rink has two surfaces, each with bleachers on one side.      They have a gorgeous black stone machine . No one will have there skates done there . 

This would be a perfect place for me to do my drea hockey factory hear .   

I thought about my tact for a week on how to say things if i have to to make my point.  

I offered to take over the skate shop ,sharpen the rental skates ,hand them out etc as My rent  . I would set shop up there .

Skates,sticks, laces ,tape,mouth guard ,sharpening, profiling, jersies.,etc .  And the arena would be the home of play maker's edge hockey  , there is room at one end to have weight machines, shooting lanes ,balance boards   . I said I would split the power skating clinics and the monthly dues to train at playmakers edge  ,also put some order to stick time  .    

They said we already do powèr skating  . Etc . he didn't get they have no idea of what they are doing..   it was casual conversation.  I was hoping be was sick of running around.   I'm going to make another run at them in a couple  months .    It would be perfect  . And slowly win trust .

You're talking about the Clifton Park rink.  They already have a vending machine that already sells tape, mouth guards ect.  So you want to go in and "work for free" and do them a favor by sharpening their rentals and in turn make a profit off of the community by teaching power skating classes?  I am just trying to understand this. You want a rink that is already making money off of a vending machine and power skating classes to split the profits with you?  Someone who wants to come in and not pay any rent or for ice time?

 

I just find this tread being started by you is ironic.  You bought 2 pair of skates off of an online shop and got mad when they couldn't be returned.  Yet you live near at least 5 shops that you could have walked into and tried on skates and bought them in store and they would have pice matched.  

I will admit I am part of the problem.  Why am I going to pay full price for a top of the line stick when I can go on sidelineswap or get a close out?  I buy my tape in bulk from howies because I can spend $2.50 a roll vs $4.00 same with laces and wax.  I still like to support my local shop though if I want to try something on or a new product comes out I can go and physically touch it and see it.

[IPv6Freely 2082]

23 minutes ago, jimmy said:

Can't make enough money doing that to pay the bills.

Well, then goodbye and good riddance to them. 

[Playmakersedge 58]

2 hours ago, Cavs019 said:

The internet. 

Exactly, and no one thought about the cumulative effects.  Now there are many of the same people that give Internet based stores there big purchases, are now stuck with half assed skate service.  And doing research on skates what fits this way or that . Maybe even go to the lhs to touch and feel skates and sticks ,then go home and order what you decided on.   We all know this is being done . 

And every one that has no other choice but too buy on line or can't get a sharpening job that you like with in a reasonable distance  . You are not contributing to the starving out of the lhs .  

But the people that didn't support the lhs made there bed by worrying about saving  nickels and dimes in the big over the course of your involvement in the sport  . 

[Playmakersedge 58]

1 hour ago, strosedefence34 said:

What would you consider good hours?  You have you're own skate sharpener so how can you say you have only been to one rink.  You obviously haven't tried any rinks local.  The Albany County rink shop does a pretty good job sharpening skates.  You wouldn't know though.  One of the skating coaches in the area tells his students to only go their to get their skates sharpened.

 

You're talking about the Clifton Park rink.  They already have a vending machine that already sells tape, mouth guards ect.  So you want to go in and "work for free" and do them a favor by sharpening their rentals and in turn make a profit off of the community by teaching power skating classes?  I am just trying to understand this. You want a rink that is already making money off of a vending machine and power skating classes to split the profits with you?  Someone who wants to come in and not pay any rent or for ice time?

 

I just find this tread being started by you is ironic.  You bought 2 pair of skates off of an online shop and got mad when they couldn't be returned.  Yet you live near at least 5 shops that you could have walked into and tried on skates and bought them in store and they would have pice matched.  

I will admit I am part of the problem.  Why am I going to pay full price for a top of the line stick when I can go on sidelineswap or get a close out?  I buy my tape in bulk from howies because I can spend $2.50 a roll vs $4.00 same with laces and wax.  I still like to support my local shop though if I want to try something on or a new product comes out I can go and physically touch it and see it.

Touching and seeing isn't spending money  . You spend  $4 a roll because when you need the lhs for good sharpening, or blade holder change  . You are keeping the shop open so there knowledge is available.  

[215BroadStBullies610 434]

2 hours ago, jimmy said:

Can't make enough money doing that to pay the bills.

Then they will die a slow death. 

[Playmakersedge 58]

1 hour ago, Playmakersedge said:

Touching and seeing isn't spending money  . You spend  $4 a roll because when you need the lhs for good sharpening, or blade holder change  . You are keeping the shop open so there knowledge is available.  

There is not five shops. There is one plus a box store . Walk in and try on size 10 -12 EE  skates never gonna happen.  How do I know the Albany county rink does a good job? My EARS I could swear I gave Albany county rink due respect in this thread . If fact I complimented the guy on it .  .  That shop had about 10 to 12 pair of skates in stock . The stick rack had more sticks than there were skates but not shit loads more . I imagine that store is financially hurting ,and it shouldn't be hurting.  The guy was cool ,I could hear he can sharpen.     Big box store  is what's left . . Yes they have a vending machine. That's not going to give a hockey pop and there kids advise. There is a skate sharpening vending machine that exists too. That's like giving there bread And butter the finger . And them teaching:  it looks the part , doing a disservice and don't realise they are. profitable I'm not so sure about that.  . Pro maker's:  deffinetly not !!!! . If you never built a house you have no business saying you're a construction expert . 

I do sharpening for the people I teach and and for the people that contact me via word of mouth.   

Hours if I were in a rink 12:00 pm to  last group .  Once people see consistent actions and consistent work they will come . People that continue to use me as as a fitting service would be getting imbarassed by getting called out . If all of the sudden the player that's always just looking wants a blade holder replacement because of a game in a hour we would be having a conversation about this isn't how things work . 

The end of the day the reason the lhs is going out is the all for me and fu attitude . 

[Playmakersedge 58]

2 hours ago, Monty22 said:

Was going to make this same point. The manufactures seem to be on a track that leads them away from reliance on LHS to sell product. Sadly, traditional shops that most of us grew up with are being killed off. Not only by the "WalMart"effect of big box stores, but also by their inability/refusal to evolve with the market place.  

If i could wave a magic wand and and put The capital together to do my dream thing I would love to be a VH/ true hockey fitting and sales location. According to the true hockey site the nearest location is in Manhattan.