Quad Zero profile

[g3k 29]

1 hour ago, Larry54 said:

I'm aware of that since it's good to maintain a profile even if it's just a simple single profile, just for consistency. I'm specifically asking about the use of quad profiles in the NHL. The people in these forums who deal with NHL players must have a good idea about what I'm asking.

I'd think that task would fall under the jurisdiction of the teams equipment manager.

Edited February 13, 2018 by g3k

[mojo122 530]

Profiling machines are becoming common place in the NHL.  Which machine is being used usually comes down to the Equipment Manger's preference. 

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

My guess is most likely not many.

Keep in mind that EQMs and players are usually slow to change.  A few years ago it was only a handful of players using a dual profile of any sort.

No idea how many NHL teams have a ProSharp either (I believe TOR was the first.)

[Larry54 243]

Is there any kind of concrete study to justify quad profiles, or are we just relying on the word of ProSharp and those who promote it, anecdotal evidence, and to a certain extent placebo effect? In a Google search I even came across some who've tried it and felt it's mostly a gimmick. Who knows, maybe it can even be detrimental if you're muscle memory is continually adjusting from one radius to another depending on what area of the blade your weight is on. I doubt that, but the skeptic in me wonders if it isn't just a solution looking for a problem, or just good marketing. Sometimes we do things just because we can.  Maybe just a single profile with the right pitch is just as good.  I mean I have all the speed and agility that I need with a simple 10' profile with neutral pitch, but I worked on my skating to get it rather than chasing new profiles. I just wonder if exploring quad profiles is worth my time.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Larry54

[Zac911 317]

On 2/5/2018 at 4:06 PM, Sniper9 said:

Step is 10' radius stock 

Key Callout on the Step Steel used with the TRUE Holder-  9ft.  Not sure if that was already covered,  but just wanted to loop back on this.

[BureKovy 20]

39 minutes ago, Zac911 said:

Key Callout on the Step Steel used with the TRUE Holder-  9ft.  Not sure if that was already covered,  but just wanted to loop back on this.

Mine was close to 11'

[Zac911 317]

6 minutes ago, BureKovy said:

Mine was close to 11'

This is interesting... I had a long talk with Rob at the factory and all the Step used in our holders is 9ft.  Not sure why there would be sue a large discrepancy.  When did you take delivery of your holders / steel?

[boo10 323]

13 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

My guess is most likely not many.

Keep in mind that EQMs and players are usually slow to change.  A few years ago it was only a handful of players using a dual profile of any sort.

No idea how many NHL teams have a ProSharp either (I believe TOR was the first.)

Considering Toronto seems to lead the league in "blown tires", I'm not sure that's a good thing for Prosharp. 😁

[flip12 699]

13 hours ago, Zac911 said:

Key Callout on the Step Steel used with the TRUE Holder-  9ft.  Not sure if that was already covered,  but just wanted to loop back on this.

What about the holder pitch? There were a lot of conflicting impressions floating through here a while back. It would be nice to have an official answer.

Edit: Sorry, thought this was the True Skate thread. Was on my phone where it's hard to see which thread you're in without the full URL.

Edited February 14, 2018 by flip12

[BureKovy 20]

12 hours ago, Zac911 said:

This is interesting... I had a long talk with Rob at the factory and all the Step used in our holders is 9ft.  Not sure why there would be sue a large discrepancy.  When did you take delivery of your holders / steel?

April 2016, the guys put it on the gauge and told me because I had a tough time making turns.  My front toe skipping.  First profile I tried was 9/10" and it felt way better.

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

On 1/26/2018 at 6:49 PM, oldtrainerguy28 said:

For JR as well. 

98% of theQuads done around here have zero blending. With Zero blending done. And you are actually going from the factory 9  or 10 to the 2nd profile on the quad so you have actually had only 3 profiles, not 4.

Studies done up here on profiles showed that a profile change larger than 2 with no flat spot was not beneficial. Hence why if I was to get a Quad the .5 would be the one I would go with.

Also, it has the least amount of steel ground of the toe. 8 10 12 14.

 

My 2 cents on the quad

 

What exactly do you mean by blending?  If they are using the ProSharp template wouldn't that naturally blend the profuiles from one to the other?  Or are you just talking about shaping the toe a bit?  The guy that did mine did do some free hand toe work and they feel terrific.

16 hours ago, Larry54 said:

Is there any kind of concrete study to justify quad profiles, or are we just relying on the word of ProSharp and those who promote it, anecdotal evidence, and to a certain extent placebo effect? In a Google search I even came across some who've tried it and felt it's mostly a gimmick. Who knows, maybe it can even be detrimental if you're muscle memory is continually adjusting from one radius to another depending on what area of the blade your weight is on. I doubt that, but the skeptic in me wonders if it isn't just a solution looking for a problem, or just good marketing. Sometimes we do things just because we can.  Maybe just a sngle profile with the right pitch is just as good.  I mean I have all the speed and agility that I need with a simple 10' profile with neutral pitch, but I worked on my skating to get it rather than chasing new profiles. I just wonder if exploring quad profiles is worth my time.

This is my first time using a Quad radius and I've never had anything other than a stock 9" and for a while a stock 11 back when I had CCM Vector Pros many years ago.  I can't compare to anytuing other than that but I will say this...  my abilty to turn quickly remains the same as the 9ft radius and my stability and glide are improved.  I have more power on pushes and my crossovers are much more powerfui.  And this is wth the added benefit of being able to go to shallower hollow at the same time.  For me there have been dramatic changes.  Whould I have had the same thing with a dual or combo... perhaps... I don't know.  Wat I do know is that this worked great.

 

 

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

On 14/02/2018 at 8:24 AM, dkmiller3356 said:

What exactly do you mean by blending?  If they are using the ProSharp template wouldn't that naturally blend the profuiles from one to the other?  Or are you just talking about shaping the toe a bit?  The guy that did mine did do some free hand toe work and they feel terrific.

This is my first time using a Quad radius and I've never had anything other than a stock 9" and for a while a stock 11 back when I had CCM Vector Pros many years ago.  I can't compare to anytuing other than that but I will say this...  my abilty to turn quickly remains the same as the 9ft radius and my stability and glide are improved.  I have more power on pushes and my crossovers are much more powerfui.  And this is wth the added benefit of being able to go to shallower hollow at the same time.  For me there have been dramatic changes.  Whould I have had the same thing with a dual or combo... perhaps... I don't know.  Wat I do know is that this worked great.

 

 

In order for the profile to be a true 6 ft or 7ft (Sorry can't remember what has what) even according to Pro Sharp the toe needs to be taken down to match were the pro sharp profile starts. Most shops DO NOT blend the toe as you described.  And even if done a little in most cases its not enough to match the starting of the quad. 

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

19 minutes ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

In order for the profile to be a true 6 ft or 7ft (Sorry can't remember what has what) even according to Pro Sharp the toe needs to be taken down to match were the pro sharp profile starts. Most shops DO NOT blend the toe as you described.  And even if done a little in most cases its not enough to match the starting of the quad. 

Understood....  well they did shape my toe.  Whether or not it was truly shaped to blend "properly" I obviously cannot tell but it feels great.  They guy that did them also did JRs and thus comes HGHLY recommended.  I trust him and I've never skated better since getting this done.

Edited February 16, 2018 by dkmiller3356

[psulion22 402]

So does anyone know if Tydan blends the toe when they put a Quad on at the factory?

[VegasHockey 1259]

3 hours ago, psulion22 said:

So does anyone know if Tydan blends the toe when they put a Quad on at the factory?

Yes, they do. 

[BrianK 2]

I currently skate on quad 2, 3/4 hollow and love it. When I put on my 10' radius blades during the same skate, my agility is cut in half. I'm nervous and feel as though I might fall. You can noticeably feel the 10' can rock front to back unlike a quad. With the quad, it's like you have all this runner in the rear but you can still turn on a dime. The biggest thing you notice is tremendous glide and you have all this extra energy!!! I may try 1" hollow on quad 2 but I will never go back to STD profile. 6'2 200lbs CCM FT1 

Edited April 13, 2018 by BrianK

[psulion22 402]

1 hour ago, BrianK said:

I currently skate on quad 2, 3/4 hollow and love it. When I put on my 10' radius blades during the same skate, my agility is cut in half. I'm nervous and feel as though I might fall. You can noticeably feel the 10' can rock front to back unlike a quad. With the quad, it's like you have all this runner in the rear but you can still turn on a dime. The biggest thing you notice is tremendous glide and you have all this extra energy!!! I may try 1" hollow on quad 2 but I will never go back to STD profile. 6'2 200lbs CCM FT1 

I just got my Q1 steel and what I immediately noticed was how much more steel is touching the ice compared to a normal profile.  I'll get to try them out on Sunday and I'm hoping I experience the same as you.

[puckpilot 312]

I've been mulling over changing the profile in my skates. This is an area that I've paid zero attention to, so I was wondering if someone could give me some recommendations. Right now I'm in LS3 with stock profiling with a 3/8 hollow. I'm in Nexus N9000s so I'm assuming they're 9' or 10' radius.

One of the issues I'm running into now is the under-push on my crossovers. It's slipping out on me a bit when I try to drive into it and extend out, and I'm losing power and stability. Now, over the last while, I've been assuming it's user error. I'm older, less flexable, and a few years ago I got sick and lost a good chunk of muscle. But I've been really focused working on that for the last few months, youtube videos studying technique, hip stretches, one leg squats, and hours and hours and hours of ice time just working my edges and crossovers with the top three eyelets undone, but I can't seem to make any progress.  

So now, I'm wondering if it could be my skates.  I'm 175lbs, and I'm in size 4.5 skates, so I'm wondering if it could be an issue involving not enough blade on the ice or rather not enough of a flat. I'm not sure if a smaller runner has less of a flat than a larger runner with the same radius. 

While googling, I found a rule of thumb calculation that said if you take your weight in kg and divided by 6.28 which is 2Pi, it will give you the ball park of what your profile radius should be. My calculation comes up with a 13' radius, which seems a bit crazy.

Any way, any recommendations/suggestions are welcome.  

[VegasHockey 1259]

23 hours ago, puckpilot said:

I've been mulling over changing the profile in my skates. This is an area that I've paid zero attention to, so I was wondering if someone could give me some recommendations. Right now I'm in LS3 with stock profiling with a 3/8 hollow. I'm in Nexus N9000s so I'm assuming they're 9' or 10' radius.

One of the issues I'm running into now is the under-push on my crossovers. It's slipping out on me a bit when I try to drive into it and extend out, and I'm losing power and stability. Now, over the last while, I've been assuming it's user error. I'm older, less flexable, and a few years ago I got sick and lost a good chunk of muscle. But I've been really focused working on that for the last few months, youtube videos studying technique, hip stretches, one leg squats, and hours and hours and hours of ice time just working my edges and crossovers with the top three eyelets undone, but I can't seem to make any progress.  

So now, I'm wondering if it could be my skates.  I'm 175lbs, and I'm in size 4.5 skates, so I'm wondering if it could be an issue involving not enough blade on the ice or rather not enough of a flat. I'm not sure if a smaller runner has less of a flat than a larger runner with the same radius. 

While googling, I found a rule of thumb calculation that said if you take your weight in kg and divided by 6.28 which is 2Pi, it will give you the ball park of what your profile radius should be. My calculation comes up with a 13' radius, which seems a bit crazy.

Any way, any recommendations/suggestions are welcome.  

3/8" is a very aggressive hollow for your weight and especially since you have such a short blade/steel. I would likely put you in a 12' profile with a 1/2" and see how that feels. 13' profile is not outrageous and many people who are strong skaters use such a profile but I dont think it would be good for you. 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Nicholas G

[VegasHockey 1259]

On 4/13/2018 at 12:29 PM, psulion22 said:

I just got my Q1 steel and what I immediately noticed was how much more steel is touching the ice compared to a normal profile.  I'll get to try them out on Sunday and I'm hoping I experience the same as you.

Define "normal profile." If you mean out of the box, which is roughly a 10', you will see a HUGE difference with nearly any Quad, Combo, or even single 12/13' radius applied. 

[VegasHockey 1259]

On 4/13/2018 at 10:40 AM, BrianK said:

I currently skate on quad 2, 3/4 hollow and love it. When I put on my 10' radius blades during the same skate, my agility is cut in half. I'm nervous and feel as though I might fall. You can noticeably feel the 10' can rock front to back unlike a quad. With the quad, it's like you have all this runner in the rear but you can still turn on a dime. The biggest thing you notice is tremendous glide and you have all this extra energy!!! I may try 1" hollow on quad 2 but I will never go back to STD profile. 6'2 200lbs CCM FT1 

If you like the Quad 2 you might want to consider the newer Quad .5

I am a huge advocate of the Quad 2 and recently we got the new .5 template and found it allowed the same amount of powerful strides and stability but also allowed slightly more agility. 

[VegasHockey 1259]

On 2/15/2018 at 4:40 PM, oldtrainerguy28 said:

In order for the profile to be a true 6 ft or 7ft (Sorry can't remember what has what) even according to Pro Sharp the toe needs to be taken down to match were the pro sharp profile starts. Most shops DO NOT blend the toe as you described.  And even if done a little in most cases its not enough to match the starting of the quad. 

A GOOD shop SHOULD blend the toe and heel. I would personally never profile a skate and not blend such. 

[VegasHockey 1259]

On 2/13/2018 at 12:37 PM, Larry54 said:

Is there any kind of concrete study to justify quad profiles, or are we just relying on the word of ProSharp and those who promote it, anecdotal evidence, and to a certain extent placebo effect? In a Google search I even came across some who've tried it and felt it's mostly a gimmick. Who knows, maybe it can even be detrimental if you're muscle memory is continually adjusting from one radius to another depending on what area of the blade your weight is on. I doubt that, but the skeptic in me wonders if it isn't just a solution looking for a problem, or just good marketing. Sometimes we do things just because we can.  Maybe just a single profile with the right pitch is just as good.  I mean I have all the speed and agility that I need with a simple 10' profile with neutral pitch, but I worked on my skating to get it rather than chasing new profiles. I just wonder if exploring quad profiles is worth my time.

Do a blind test. I recently had a player from the WHL come in to get a profile. We took 4 sets of steel and did 3 different profiles and left one "stock" and had him perform a series of skating challenges. We timed him and also asked him which felt best. He repeated the challenge 3 times with each set of steel. We switched up the order in which he tested the steel as well. It was no surprise that the "stock" steel he had the worst times and disliked the most and a Quad 0 is what he preferred. His second best times and ranking was with the Quad 2. 

For some, it can be a placebo, but there is absolutely science behind it. Can everyone benefit from switching from a single radius to a quad? No! There is nothing that says a quad is better than a tri, dual or single radius. Each player is different and you need to find what fits his/her style best. 

[VegasHockey 1259]

On 2/13/2018 at 6:54 AM, g3k said:

I'd think that task would fall under the jurisdiction of the teams equipment manager.

Typically, yes. Equipment managers dont want to mess with any of that technology though unless enough players ask for it. We do a bunch of WHL players skates because the veteran equipment managers won't bother with profiling since they have little experience with doing such. The younger equipment managers are more open-minded though. 

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

15 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

3/8" is a very aggressive hollow for your weight and especially since you have such a short blade/steel. I would likely put you in a 12' profile with a 1/2" and see how that feels. 13' profile is not outrageous and many people who are strong skaters use such a profile but I dont think it would be good for you. 

 

14 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Define "normal profile." If you mean out of the box, which is roughly a 10', you will see a HUGE difference with nearly any Quad, Combo, or even single 12/13' radius applied. 

 

13 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

If you like the Quad 2 you might want to consider the newer Quad .5

I am a huge advocate of the Quad 2 and recently we got the new .5 template and found it allowed the same amount of powerful strides and stability but also allowed slightly more agility. 

 

11 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

A GOOD shop SHOULD blend the toe and heel. I would personally never profile a skate and not blend such. 

 

6 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Do a blind test. I recently had a player from the WHL come in to get a profile. We took 4 sets of steel and did 3 different profiles and left one "stock" and had him perform a series of skating challenges. We timed him and also asked him which felt best. He repeated the challenge 3 times with each set of steel. We switched up the order in which he tested the steel as well. It was no surprise that the "stock" steel he had the worst times and disliked the most and a Quad 0 is what he preferred. His second best times and ranking was with the Quad 2. 

For some, it can be a placebo, but there is absolutely science behind it. Can everyone benefit from switching from a single radius to a quad? No! There is nothing that says a quad is better than a tri, dual or single radius. Each player is different and you need to find what fits his/her style best. 

 

4 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Typically, yes. Equipment managers dont want to mess with any of that technology though unless enough players ask for it. We do a bunch of WHL players skates because the veteran equipment managers won't bother with profiling since they have little experience with doing such. The younger equipment managers are more open-minded though. 

Multiquote......