VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne

[Zac911 317]

7 hours ago, Fletch said:

Only a semi-related question but will the black step steel fit on the Lightspeed Edge holders?  That's what I'd be looking to have mounted on True skates when I order them.  

You can get Step Steel Black for the TRUE Holder 

[Fletch 219]

1 hour ago, Zac911 said:

You can get Step Steel Black for the TRUE Holder 

Yeah, I may end up going that route...haha.

[Fletch 219]

1 hour ago, Kgbeast said:

 

 

There could be something wrong with me, but I think these are pretty ugly. The resin/mesh heel reminds me Makos look which is not a compliment. It almost looks to me that if the side piece that has the VH logo on it, was a one piece with the foxing, completely covering this heel, it would have removed this bursting-out-bubble situation at the back and made this a much more stream-lined and easier on the eye skate.

I honestly could care less what it looks like as long as it fits and performs better than any skate I've ever worn.  To quote Morgan Freeman in Shawshank Redemption: "I mean, seriously, how often do you look at a man’s shoes?"

[Zac911 317]

1 hour ago, Fletch said:

I honestly could care less what it looks like as long as it fits and performs better than any skate I've ever worn.  To quote Morgan Freeman in Shawshank Redemption: "I mean, seriously, how often do you look at a man’s shoes?"

It's really an Aesthetics vs Fit / Performance issue.  You really have to decide what is more important.

Not everybody fits a generic stock boot.  This coupled with some of the bone spur issues we are seeing from others-  If you don't get it... Eventually you will :)

[Kgbeast 195]

... either way, they do not have to be ugly to fit or perform. 

For example, remove these weird dimples from true holders and they will look ok and perform just as well as they do now.

[215BroadStBullies610 434]

My next skate will be True/VH. That being said, I'd opt for the TUUK Lightspeeds over the stock holder. Looks matter more to me than to others ha.

[Dman692420 10]

8 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

Step ST-EDGE is only available in Canada, not the US.

I have seen the black step steel for lightspeed edge on eBay for sale & venders will ship to the USA. I Just ordered the regular steel for the edge holder 2 months apart from 2 dif vendors. Didn't want to spend the extra $ on black since I have sparx and can sharpen regularly. Well worth the 65$ + 15$ shipping, was still cheaper then 99$ for crapy Bauer steel.

[t1tan 19]

1 hour ago, Dman692420 said:

I have seen the black step steel for lightspeed edge on eBay for sale & venders will ship to the USA. I Just ordered the regular steel for the edge holder 2 months apart from 2 dif vendors. Didn't want to spend the extra $ on black since I have sparx and can sharpen regularly. Well worth the 65$ + 15$ shipping, was still cheaper then 99$ for crapy Bauer steel.

Yep, got my Step Blacksteel shipped to US on eBay.

[IPv6Freely 2083]

Anyone know if Step is going to make blacksteel for the VH goalie holders?

[Zac911 317]

19 hours ago, Jason said:

Where did you get that information? I know the Step name was on the original holders, but my old boss talked to the owner of Step and he said that he had no input into the design of the holder. Seems weird that they would manufacture something and put there name on it if they had no input into the product.

My friend who sharpens at a LHS said that they are very hard to clamp in for sharpening and he said the Step steel that fits in them is always reverse pitched. I feel like they could have done a better job with these holders and steel.

Can you elaborate on that a little more for me?

[Zac911 317]

10 hours ago, Kgbeast said:

... either way, they do not have to be ugly to fit or perform. 

For example, remove these weird dimples from true holders and they will look ok and perform just as well as they do now.

I'm not sure if you truly understand the construction of the skate and what makes it so very different from what is out there.  I keep hearing comparisons to Mako and besides some external surface similarities the TRUE by SVH are nothing like those.

This skate is designed more like an Orthepdic device-  It's shaped to the ball of YOUR foot,  it's shaped to YOUR arch,  It's shaped to the width and depth of YOUR heel.  This is truly a hand made custom skate for YOUR foot.  Think of a Custom Carbon Fiber Sled made just for YOU.

There is no traditional toe cap thus avoiding issues that so many have with rubbing and bone spurs ( or pro's who go +1 or +2 to help alleviate that pain only to lose edge control due to movement in the ball area ). 

Hell... I had alot of assumptions based off of what I knew from skates from years in this business-  I had to let alot of that thought process go once I actually got my hands on the skate and truly listen to what Garth and his team were teaching me.

Many skates today are designed around a marketing plan.  The VH skates are designed for performance via a better fit. 

The inverse of your argument is that the skates do not have to perform as long as they are pretty?  Or who cares if the skates damage my feet.... They are pretty!

If you are spending north of $600 on a pair of jets they should be made and fit YOU.

I am trying to understand your complaint here-  Not trying to pick an argument here so much as trying to evolve the conversation.

As for the " dimples " on the holder-  Take a closer look at the holder on the Goalie skate and then look at the Player skate.  Report your findings.  :)

 

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Zac911
Grammar Nazi Food / Spelling

[IPv6Freely 2083]

I think the mako comparisons come from the overall comfort factor and heat moldability. As somebody who has worn both the Mako and VH I can tell you that if a Mako goalie skate had existed, I’d probably be in those because they were pretty comfortable. Since they don’t exist, VH was pretty much my only option. 

As it turned out, it was a good thing VH was my only option because they are miles better than the Mako. 

Or, put it this way, what the Mako was to the ski boot Bauers, the VH are to the Makos. It’s THAT much better. 

Also, as somebody who again has worn both, it’s clear that comfort beats looks (or I’d still be in the RBK 8Ks I was in at one point which were a fantastic looking skate) because both the Mako and the version of VH I have were both ugly. 

I think the True is a great looking skate, though it really is way better in person. The pictures do tend to make them look a bit wonky for some reason. Like they have ankle guards or something. 

[Kgbeast 195]

4 hours ago, Zac911 said:

1. I keep hearing comparisons to Mako and besides some external surface similarities the TRUE by SVH are nothing like....

2. The inverse of your argument is that the skates do not have to perform as long as they are pretty?  Or who cares if the skates damage my feet.... They are pretty!

3. I am trying to undertand your complaint here-  Not trying to pick an argument here so much as trying to evolve the conversation.

4. As for the " dimples " on the holder-  Take a closer look at the holder on the Goalie skate and then look at the Player skate.  Report your findings.  :)

1. My mention of Mako is based purely on visual similarity. It has nothing to do with perforamance. All I said the round bulge in the heel look the same as on Mako shape wise as well as texture wise (fabric mesh) which I personally find pretty cheezy.

2. My argument was that skates do not have to look ugly to perform and fit well. There is nothing to inverse.

3. It is not a complaint, but an opinion that the skates look unappealing. When skates were made in a craftsman fashion by SVH... it was a boutique product that was ok to be stylistically challenged,  however today, it is out in the mainstream and certain expectation are at play. Again, is is an opinion.

4. I know that the same holder used for the goalie skates... However, it looks a bit botched. You have great performing boot, but holder looks retrofitted. Rockered holder fitted with a runner that is "forced" flat, leaving pretty thin strip in the middle. Holder also puts goalies a bit high (based on some opinions of goalies who tried this). Perhaps, for mainstream argument sake, it might be good to have goalie holder  and player holder purposely designed for two different tasks.

by the way, can the goalie holder/runner fit in Sparx or prosharp pirtables?

[IPv6Freely 2083]

53 minutes ago, Kgbeast said:

1. My mention of Mako is based purely on visual similarity. It has nothing to do with perforamance. All I said the round bulge in the heel look the same as on Mako shape wise as well as texture wise (fabric mesh) which I personally find pretty cheezy.

2. My argument was that skates do not have to look ugly to perform and fit well. There is nothing to inverse.

3. It is not a complaint, but an opinion that the skates look unappealing. When skates were made in a craftsman fashion by SVH... it was a boutique product that was ok to be stylistically challenged,  however today, it is out in the mainstream and certain expectation are at play. Again, is is an opinion.

4. I know that the same holder used for the goalie skates... However, it looks a bit botched. You have great performing boot, but holder looks retrofitted. Rockered holder fitted with a runner that is "forced" flat, leaving pretty thin strip in the middle. Holder also puts goalies a bit high (based on some opinions of goalies who tried this). Perhaps, for mainstream argument sake, it might be good to have goalie holder  and player holder purposely designed for two different tasks.

by the way, can the goalie holder/runner fit in Sparx or prosharp pirtables?

No reason why not. 

[Zac911 317]

1 hour ago, Kgbeast said:

1. My mention of Mako is based purely on visual similarity. It has nothing to do with perforamance. All I said the round bulge in the heel look the same as on Mako shape wise as well as texture wise (fabric mesh) which I personally find pretty cheezy.

2. My argument was that skates do not have to look ugly to perform and fit well. There is nothing to inverse.

3. It is not a complaint, but an opinion that the skates look unappealing. When skates were made in a craftsman fashion by SVH... it was a boutique product that was ok to be stylistically challenged,  however today, it is out in the mainstream and certain expectation are at play. Again, is is an opinion.

4. I know that the same holder used for the goalie skates... However, it looks a bit botched. You have great performing boot, but holder looks retrofitted. Rockered holder fitted with a runner that is "forced" flat, leaving pretty thin strip in the middle. Holder also puts goalies a bit high (based on some opinions of goalies who tried this). Perhaps, for mainstream argument sake, it might be good to have goalie holder  and player holder purposely designed for two different tasks.

by the way, can the goalie holder/runner fit in Sparx or prosharp pirtables?

"  It's really an Aesthetics vs Fit / Performance issue.  You really have to decide what is more important.

Not everybody fits a generic stock boot.  This coupled with some of the bone spur issues we are seeing from others-  If you don't get it... Eventually you will :) "

 

There are alot of performance benefits of this design over what most other competitors are offering.  You don't like the way it looks.  That's fine.  

 

If I had asked my customers what they wanted they would have said a faster horse-  Henry Ford 

[Jason 65]

6 hours ago, Zac911 said:

Can you elaborate on that a little more for me?

All I can say was that he said they have a difficult time clamping them in to sharpen and that compared to Bauer or CCM versions of the Step Steel, the Step made for the VH holder is taller in the front of the blade creating a reverse pitch.

[Kgbeast 195]

42 minutes ago, Zac911 said:

"  It's really an Aesthetics vs Fit / Performance issue.  You really have to decide what is more important.

Not everybody fits a generic stock boot.  This coupled with some of the bone spur issues we are seeing from others-  If you don't get it... Eventually you will :) "

 

There are alot of performance benefits of this design over what most other competitors are offering.  You don't like the way it looks.  That's fine.  

 

If I had asked my customers what they wanted they would have said a faster horse-  Henry Ford 

You keep on "either or" thing. Is it impractical to expect aesthetics and fit/performance in the same product? They do that with cars all the time (wink at the quote which, contrary to popular believe, most likely, has not come from Henry Ford). Either way, I am not saying that True skates suck and that I want leather and tube holders back if that is what prompt you to put the quote in. I am just saying that to me, and a couple of other weirdos, they perform great, fit even better, but are ugly ducklings never the less.

 

[Kgbeast 195]

1 hour ago, IPv6Freely said:

No reason why not. 

It just looks like the plastic of the holder is pretty close to the edge on goalie version.

[Fletch 219]

I saw the skate in person today at Monkey.  I have to say, I am impressed (and not because I am a True fanboy ;)

The look of the heel reminds me of the KOR skate from back in the day, a skate that I really liked.  

[calby8 10]

On 8/7/2017 at 1:17 AM, JunkyardAthletic said:

Fletch, I should be up your way this week. I have a sample you can see, if you want.

I've noticed that the skates in person and in most pictures the black felt tongue looks a little longer and/or more form fitting compared to other skates. It looks great, but in some photos, looking down and at the front it basically looks like an all black black boot with white laces. This is one of only picture I've seen with the white felt tongue. I think it looks a little more classic tying in the holders and laces, but it is possible if the tongue is longer and more form fitting it makes more sense to have a sleek black look than just a small white felt outline.  What do you guys think?

P.S.  I don't want to start another looks vs quality debate. I'm ordering a pair of skates no matter what. Haha

Edited August 9, 2017 by calby8

[Zac911 317]

3 hours ago, calby8 said:

I've noticed that the skates in person and in most pictures the black felt tongue looks a little longer and/or more form fitting compared to other skates. It looks great, but in some photos, looking down and at the front it basically looks like an all black black boot with white laces. This is one of only picture I've seen with the white felt tongue. I think it looks a little more classic tying in the holders and laces, but it is possible if the tongue is longer and more form fitting it makes more sense to have a sleek black look than just a small white felt outline.  What do you guys think?

P.S.  I don't want to start another looks vs quality debate. I'm ordering a pair of skates no matter what. Haha

The Tongue is fully adjustable-  It's held in by a large velcro tab.  You can set it up to ride higher or lower,  but most of all it's easily serviceable.

[Zac911 317]

11 hours ago, Kgbeast said:

You keep on "either or" thing. Is it impractical to expect aesthetics and fit/performance in the same product? They do that with cars all the time (wink at the quote which, contrary to popular believe, most likely, has not come from Henry Ford). Either way, I am not saying that True skates suck and that I want leather and tube holders back if that is what prompt you to put the quote in. I am just saying that to me, and a couple of other weirdos, they perform great, fit even better, but are ugly ducklings never the less.

 

You have established that you don't like it.  That is fine,  but when you only retort to selected comments of mine and avoid others all together... That is where the evolving the conversation stops.

[215BroadStBullies610 434]

13 minutes ago, Zac911 said:

You have established that you don't like it.  That is fine,  but when you only retort to selected comments of mine and avoid others all together... That is where the evolving the conversation stops.

Ain't that the truth. 

[Zac911 317]

13 hours ago, Jason said:

All I can say was that he said they have a difficult time clamping them in to sharpen and that compared to Bauer or CCM versions of the Step Steel, the Step made for the VH holder is taller in the front of the blade creating a reverse pitch.

The holder is 2mm taller in the heel from the toe.  Very few of the players Scott has worked with have noticed.  The steel is a 9ft radius.  For players that don't feel like they are balanced I would also remind people to look at the steel they were skating on prior-  Is it still perfectly radiused or are the heel and toe ground down?  Anybody transitioning to new steel will have an adjustment period.

In any case when it comes to balance and rocker-  Nothing that a quality Radius Job can't do.  I hear Pro Sharp up in Van is doing very well with their Quad Radius.

A stock radius on any new steel is fairly meh for the masses,  but perfect for nobody.  It's time we look at Steel Prep like Race Car Drivers do with their Tires.  Time to evolve the conversation.

I generally prefer to drop the steel from the holder when sharpening,  but completely understand that for time constraints it's not always possible ( I have done this even with my tuuks ).

I have not seen or heard many complaints regarding clamping with the holder-  Can you elaborate on this?  Are you saying the clamp is hanging up on the holder somewhere?  Can you provide pics?

 

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Zac911
spelling / grammar

[Zac911 317]

2 minutes ago, 215BroadStBullies610 said:

Ain't that the truth. 

Sorry if I sound argumentative.

:)