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cbhockey22

Modern Quest 1 skate fit

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I wore X:60s after a ~1-2 year hiatus and had fairly good success with those with the exception of my first ever bout with lace bite, which was managed with kitchen sponges. Eventually, I didn’t need the sponges anymore. Once those Vapors fell apart I went to 2015 1Xs, same size, which seemingly fit well for a while until after 6-8 months I started having bad bruising and terrible ankle pain which I somewhat managed by once again shoving kitchen sponges in those areas. Problem only worsened though so it was time for a change. I had my foot scanned at the local Perani’s and it fitted me in a Supreme with a size very close to what I’d been wearing already. I managed to find some brand new NXGs and all my ankle issues resolved immediately. Now, however, I’m starting to have lace bite issues again. Prior to the X:60s, I went through two pairs of Nike Quest 1s, which in my memory never caused me any real issues. So I’m wondering what skates today might be closest in fit profile to those Quest 1s since they seem to have fit my foot so well. I realize skate technology is dramatically different today, so perhaps some of my issues are attributed to that. I mostly just want to find a skate that fits my foot properly without having to shove some kitchen sponge down there to allow me to do my thing on the ice. Any information is greatly appreciated!

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If the real issue is lace bite, you probably want to look into the Nexus line in Bauer.

I don't know what specs the 3D scanner uses, but the current 1S skate has more volume than the NXG did.  So while the Supreme fit may be better than the Vapor (it's wider in the midfoot and toe), the NXG may not fit the way the Bauer machine intends the 1S to.  I'm also suprised there's lace bite on a NXG with the carbon plates on the tongue.  Are yours broken down or missing?  It's a pretty thin tongue without the insert on, and that could definitely cause some issues.

And the skates you've bought - 1X and NXG - have Curv quarters.  They'll be much stiffer than those Quest 1s you remember.  The stiffness may also be causing your issues because it doesn't allow much forward flex.  Before changing skates, you may want to consider those 55 Flex extenders to give you more forward flex and take some of that pressure off your lace area.  There are also specific lace bite pads available that are thinner and more effective than kitchen sponges.  If none of that works, and you really want a Quest 1 evolution, you'll need to look for the original line of Nexus skates, without the Curv quarter.

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I failed to mention these particular NXGs have the ONE.9 tongue so it does not have the Curv inserts. I remember the plastic guard on my X:60s cracked into several pieces after years of use. I was optimistic about the Curv guard in the 1Xs and was pleased with that aspect, but the ankle issue was separate.

I did consider that the 3D scan may have been specifically tairlored to the 1S and knowingly took a gamble on the NXGs, so that’s a valid point. I do find the rigidity of these composite boots incredibly frustrating. The only flexion appears to be in the tongue and with them lacing up so high there is a limit to how much forward flex is possible it seems. I’ve experimented with going down an eyelet but that wasn’t working for me. I don’t remember getting skates being such a hassle when I was younger.

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31 minutes ago, cbhockey22 said:

I failed to mention these particular NXGs have the ONE.9 tongue so it does not have the Curv inserts. I remember the plastic guard on my X:60s cracked into several pieces after years of use. I was optimistic about the Curv guard in the 1Xs and was pleased with that aspect, but the ankle issue was separate.

I did consider that the 3D scan may have been specifically tairlored to the 1S and knowingly took a gamble on the NXGs, so that’s a valid point. I do find the rigidity of these composite boots incredibly frustrating. The only flexion appears to be in the tongue and with them lacing up so high there is a limit to how much forward flex is possible it seems. I’ve experimented with going down an eyelet but that wasn’t working for me. I don’t remember getting skates being such a hassle when I was younger.

I used to have the Quest 1 skates too and quite liked them but eventually switched to Easton (Z-Air Comp, Synergy) then stopped playing and now bought the VH/True skates, which in my personal opinion are the best fitting most responsive skates I ever had. I seem to remember that the Quest skates were quite heavy and as stated above quite narrow.

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5 hours ago, psulion22 said:

If the real issue is lace bite, you probably want to look into the Nexus line in Bauer.

I don't know what specs the 3D scanner uses, but the current 1S skate has more volume than the NXG did.  So while the Supreme fit may be better than the Vapor (it's wider in the midfoot and toe), the NXG may not fit the way the Bauer machine intends the 1S to.  I'm also suprised there's lace bite on a NXG with the carbon plates on the tongue.  Are yours broken down or missing?  It's a pretty thin tongue without the insert on, and that could definitely cause some issues.

And the skates you've bought - 1X and NXG - have Curv quarters.  They'll be much stiffer than those Quest 1s you remember.  The stiffness may also be causing your issues because it doesn't allow much forward flex.  Before changing skates, you may want to consider those 55 Flex extenders to give you more forward flex and take some of that pressure off your lace area.  There are also specific lace bite pads available that are thinner and more effective than kitchen sponges.  If none of that works, and you really want a Quest 1 evolution, you'll need to look for the original line of Nexus skates, without the Curv quarter.

I’m not necessarily looking for the definitive answer to which skate I should be in, but I want to have a good direction to follow and gather as much information and understanding as possible.  I found these NXGs with the ONE.9 tongue for cheaper and viewed them as more of a stopgap while I determine what skate may be best for me.  It’s mostly annoying that I’m dealing with lace bite after only a handful of ice times.  It starts becoming very complicated when I have a Bauer 3D scan telling me Supreme (medium volume), I’ve had 50% success with Vapors (low volume), and now I have suggestions to try RibCore (low volume), Jetspeed (Low/medium volume), and Nexus (high volume)!  Thanks for the input!

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9 hours ago, cbhockey22 said:

I’m not necessarily looking for the definitive answer to which skate I should be in, but I want to have a good direction to follow and gather as much information and understanding as possible.  I found these NXGs with the ONE.9 tongue for cheaper and viewed them as more of a stopgap while I determine what skate may be best for me.  It’s mostly annoying that I’m dealing with lace bite after only a handful of ice times.  It starts becoming very complicated when I have a Bauer 3D scan telling me Supreme (medium volume), I’ve had 50% success with Vapors (low volume), and now I have suggestions to try RibCore (low volume), Jetspeed (Low/medium volume), and Nexus (high volume)!  Thanks for the input!

Are the VH/True skates not an option?

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7 minutes ago, number_22 said:

Are the VH/True skates not an option?

They totally are!  I didn’t specifically mention them since the fit profile wouldn’t matter in that instance.  I hadn’t given them much serious thought previously, but will do so now.  In my brief reading about them, I’m very intrigued.  I plan to make do until the new Bauers and CCMs com out, then try on as much as I can.  I typically wear EE which has made trying on skates locally an issue where I live, but we’ll see.  I’d simply prefer to have 2-3 to try on versus feeling the need to try every skate line available.

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5 hours ago, cbhockey22 said:

They totally are!  I didn’t specifically mention them since the fit profile wouldn’t matter in that instance.  I hadn’t given them much serious thought previously, but will do so now.  In my brief reading about them, I’m very intrigued.  I plan to make do until the new Bauers and CCMs com out, then try on as much as I can.  I typically wear EE which has made trying on skates locally an issue where I live, but we’ll see.  I’d simply prefer to have 2-3 to try on versus feeling the need to try every skate line available.

I see! I completely understand, it’s best to try as many as you can.

I can only recommend the VH/True skates, I have difficult feet myself and the True’s are the first skates ever that fit my feet like slippers.

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15 hours ago, cbhockey22 said:

I’m not necessarily looking for the definitive answer to which skate I should be in, but I want to have a good direction to follow and gather as much information and understanding as possible.  I found these NXGs with the ONE.9 tongue for cheaper and viewed them as more of a stopgap while I determine what skate may be best for me.  It’s mostly annoying that I’m dealing with lace bite after only a handful of ice times.  It starts becoming very complicated when I have a Bauer 3D scan telling me Supreme (medium volume), I’ve had 50% success with Vapors (low volume), and now I have suggestions to try RibCore (low volume), Jetspeed (Low/medium volume), and Nexus (high volume)!  Thanks for the input!

I hear you.  The scanner says Supreme, but the volume there is closer to Nexus than what you have.  The difference between NXG and 1S for me was enough that I considered going down a half size.  Have you tried the pencil test with any of your skates?

I don't think the volume is the problem with the NXGs.  It's the stiffness of the Curv quarter.  I believe you'll be fine in a current Supreme last but lower down the line that doesn't have the Curv package.

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51 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

I hear you.  The scanner says Supreme, but the volume there is closer to Nexus than what you have.  The difference between NXG and 1S for me was enough that I considered going down a half size.  Have you tried the pencil test with any of your skates?

I don't think the volume is the problem with the NXGs.  It's the stiffness of the Curv quarter.  I believe you'll be fine in a current Supreme last but lower down the line that doesn't have the Curv package.

I’m not familiar with the pencil test.  I do believe you’re probably right in regard to stiffness and using a non-Curv quarter.  I noticed that my 1Xs have a bit of squishiness in the tongue where they primarily flexed behind the Curv whereas these NXGs with the ONE.9 tongue have a defined crease already with zero give, so any flexibility would probably be in the laces, which I already replaced.  I’ve only skated on these maybe 10 times!  I think the X:60s caused lace bite after a much longer period of time, but they also weren’t Curv.  Interestingly, the problems I’ve had with the 1X and the NXG are on opposite feet, so perhaps I should try using one of each!  Thanks again for all the feedback!

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1 hour ago, cbhockey22 said:

I’m not familiar with the pencil test.  I do believe you’re probably right in regard to stiffness and using a non-Curv quarter.  I noticed that my 1Xs have a bit of squishiness in the tongue where they primarily flexed behind the Curv whereas these NXGs with the ONE.9 tongue have a defined crease already with zero give, so any flexibility would probably be in the laces, which I already replaced.  I’ve only skated on these maybe 10 times!  I think the X:60s caused lace bite after a much longer period of time, but they also weren’t Curv.  Interestingly, the problems I’ve had with the 1X and the NXG are on opposite feet, so perhaps I should try using one of each!  Thanks again for all the feedback!

The pencil test is a way of determining if there is enough volume in your skate.  Lace the skate up and place a pencil across the laces in a few areas.  If the volume is correct, the tongue shouldn't touch the pencil.  If the tongue does touch the pencil, it would mean there isn't enough volume, which means no wrap and the laces would be pushing right against the tongue.  That's going to cause lace bite.  Give it a try and it might give you a better idea of what you'll need.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say the 1X will fail, and the NXG will pass, but just barely.

You clearly need forward flex in the ankle area that a Curv boot can't give you.  The 55 flex extensions may be the perfect solution if you can find a set.  I don't think they make them anymore.  Try eBay or the sale ads here, maybe?

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2 hours ago, psulion22 said:

The pencil test is a way of determining if there is enough volume in your skate.  Lace the skate up and place a pencil across the laces in a few areas.  If the volume is correct, the tongue shouldn't touch the pencil.  If the tongue does touch the pencil, it would mean there isn't enough volume, which means no wrap and the laces would be pushing right against the tongue.  That's going to cause lace bite.  Give it a try and it might give you a better idea of what you'll need.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say the 1X will fail, and the NXG will pass, but just barely.

You clearly need forward flex in the ankle area that a Curv boot can't give you.  The 55 flex extensions may be the perfect solution if you can find a set.  I don't think they make them anymore.  Try eBay or the sale ads here, maybe?

This is very informative, thank you.  I didn’t expect to learn so much about skates in the last 24 hours.  It seems that putting a kitchen sponge in there (which I tried this morning to no avail) could actually exacerbate the problem.  Without testing just yet, yes, I fully expect to fail this pencil test, perhaps on both pairs!  One point worth mentioning... when these NXGs were baked, I took them to the local Perani’s and they were put into the oven together.  I wasn’t particularly pleased with this, but didn’t feel comfortable messing with their oven.  I laced the left skate first, then the right skate.  The right skate is the one I’m having issues with so is it possible the boot had cooled too much prior to lacing it up?  Could there be a benefit to re-baking the right skate?

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I had a good bout of lace bite like you develop but in the original apx's , tried sticking with vapors but the bite returned . After bouncing around the bauer family & doing the 3d scan(recmnd. supremes) I finally settled into supremes & it has got rid of my bite . I slightly fail the pencil test in them, but the nexus line was too sloppy in the heel & forefoot . They're wider then I thought ( nexus line ) . I noticed in the 1s supremes they gave me better heel lock which in theory I think was less stress/movement on the tendons that go up against the tongue/laces . I found donut gel sleeves from pro sport protection in canada. They offered 100% relief until the tendons healed  

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9 hours ago, psulion22 said:

The pencil test is a way of determining if there is enough volume in your skate.  Lace the skate up and place a pencil across the laces in a few areas.  If the volume is correct, the tongue shouldn't touch the pencil.  If the tongue does touch the pencil, it would mean there isn't enough volume, which means no wrap and the laces would be pushing right against the tongue.  That's going to cause lace bite.  Give it a try and it might give you a better idea of what you'll need.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say the 1X will fail, and the NXG will pass, but just barely.

You clearly need forward flex in the ankle area that a Curv boot can't give you.  The 55 flex extensions may be the perfect solution if you can find a set.  I don't think they make them anymore.  Try eBay or the sale ads here, maybe?

Having now done the pencil test on both the NXGs and the 1Xs, I’m actually surprised to see that in the ankle area where I would have potential lace bite issues, I actually pass this test with both skates on both feet!  I notice the slight difference in volume between the two but considering that the one skate causing me actual lace bite (right foot NXG) is the one that actually provides the greatest amount of volume where I’m having the issue is puzzling.  The left NXG has been fine on the ice yet the pencil barely grazes in that area.  The right NXG has a small gap, probably ~1/8”.  The gaps on the 1Xs for each foot in those areas are just ever so slightly less than the NXGs but still passing in my opinion.  The one obvious area where the 1Xs fail is in the instep area, due to the reduced volume.  The right 1X never was a problem, it was only the left and the issue was in the ankles.

I can’t deny that the rigidity of these Curv boots must be a contributing factor.  I actually feel like these NXGs allowed my left ankle to heal and I could probably skate in the 1Xs again without issue, at least for some period of time while the right lace bite area heals.

This topic has veered from its original purpose, but I think I’m learning that my original question is most likely irrelevant!

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19 hours ago, psulion22 said:

The pencil test is a way of determining if there is enough volume in your skate.  Lace the skate up and place a pencil across the laces in a few areas.  If the volume is correct, the tongue shouldn't touch the pencil.  If the tongue does touch the pencil, it would mean there isn't enough volume, which means no wrap and the laces would be pushing right against the tongue.  That's going to cause lace bite.  

So, you're saying the pencil test is supposed to be done laced/tongue up? That might explain why I had to use a unique lacing technique to avoid bite. 

I did it with the tongue pulled out, and the pencil just barely touched.

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1 hour ago, Paddy said:

So, you're saying the pencil test is supposed to be done laced/tongue up? That might explain why I had to use a unique lacing technique to avoid bite. 

I did it with the tongue pulled out, and the pencil just barely touched.

That’s how most do it. Laces loosened up and the tongue pulled out/forward. Then lay a pencil across the eyelets.

Ideal fit is for the pencil to be really close or just barely graze your ankle/foot.  If the pencil is pushed way off the eyelets you’ll eventually develop lace bite in those skates. However if there’s too much of a gap between your ankle and the pencil it may be an indication that there’s too much volume. 

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2 hours ago, Anjin-san said:

That’s how most do it. Laces loosened up and the tongue pulled out/forward. Then lay a pencil across the eyelets.

Ideal fit is for the pencil to be really close or just barely graze your ankle/foot.  If the pencil is pushed way off the eyelets you’ll eventually develop lace bite in those skates. However if there’s too much of a gap between your ankle and the pencil it may be an indication that there’s too much volume. 

I’m sure this is somewhere, but for simplicity’s sake, if there is too much volume upon doing the pencil test, what is the downside, less than ideal heel lock?  Anything else?

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2 hours ago, cbhockey22 said:

I’m sure this is somewhere, but for simplicity’s sake, if there is too much volume upon doing the pencil test, what is the downside, less than ideal heel lock?  Anything else?

If a pair of skates has too much volume for your feet it's akin to a skate being too long or too wide. You may lack heel lock or experience movement of your foot while laced up in the boot.

I had too much volume when I tried a pair of Bauer Nexus 8000 skates (2014 model). What I found was that I felt as though I could never get the skates tight enough. It was as though my feet were floating around in them.

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