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3 hours ago, Monty22 said:

Another great opportunity for CCM.

Don't think they (CCM) won't follow...as @DarkStar50said, it was a matter of time and it will be the same for the other two "bigs" in the business.

Many in the business, however, have short memories.  Reebok did sell direct for a very short period of time back in 2003 via reebok.com.  They listed many of their lower end items, which make up the core of any hockey company's sales.  Reebok was threatened by the larger dealers and the hockey products were pulled from the site.

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2 hours ago, JunkyardAthletic said:

Don't think they (CCM) won't follow...as @DarkStar50said, it was a matter of time and it will be the same for the other two "bigs" in the business.

Many in the business, however, have short memories.  Reebok did sell direct for a very short period of time back in 2003 via reebok.com.  They listed many of their lower end items, which make up the core of any hockey company's sales.  Reebok was threatened by the larger dealers and the hockey products were pulled from the site.

CCM has said that they don't plan on it right now, if the conditions stay the same.  Basically, unless Bauer makes all the money doing this, CCM doesn't plan on following (at least that's what I've been told).

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16 hours ago, 215BroadStBullies610 said:

If true, that means no more big-box store sales?

Well, I would think small retailers might be hurt worse unless they were great fitters and sharpeners. Those shops are going to do ok but the big stores may suffer more. 

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Is it fair to assume sticks will stay at $299, which means insane margins without the middle-man (wholesale)?

I guess that’s one way to save a grossly mismanaged company. 

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Howdy,

2 hours ago, Cavs019 said:

Is it fair to assume sticks will stay at $299, which means insane margins without the middle-man (wholesale)?

I guess that’s one way to save a grossly mismanaged company. 

I would be really surprised if they sold stuff at < MAP.

And if that's the case, is selling direct on the web really a big deal?  If its the same price, I'd rather buy from IW or HM or whatever online so that I can get stuff other than just Bauer if I can't get what I want at the price I want locally.

Mark

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1 hour ago, marka said:


And if that's the case, is selling direct on the web really a big deal?  If its the same price, I'd rather buy from IW or HM or whatever online so that I can get stuff other than just Bauer if I can't get what I want at the price I want locally.

It’s following the same model most retailers work within with a manufacturer (eg. Apple, Nike) selling the products they make. 

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I haven't thought too hard about this, and I don't have as much skin in the game as I used to, but...

At first blush I don't think this will have a huge impact on smaller retailers, at least, as online competition is nothing new, and Bauer is investing in initiatives that require an in-store presence (such as foot scanning for skates). They aren't likely to try and play by a different set of rules than what they set for retails regarding MAP and various promotions.

The only two things I could foresee causing a problem (for the smaller retailer, at least), is if they decide to make a move on the team business and if they run into warehousing issues with their inventory such that it becomes more difficult to secure product outside of booking delivery windows.

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Define “smaller retailers “. For Bauer that will be those purchasing less than $25k yearly. Their Bauer account will be closed. This is a current policy. For retailers that are not “Elite” Bauer dealers, they no longer have access to the top two price points in skates and protective. In fact those products are off their B2B page so any idea of stock to help inform an in store customer about availability is gone. I imagine this means little to nothing to Bauer corporate but as a retailer this information is part of the process of building a relationship with a customer. Sharing information earns trust. So those “Performance” Bauer dealers may not see a difference in sales initially but if they track month-to-month, year-to-year, the numbers might prove otherwise. Simply study the numbers over the last 10-12 years with internet and Big Box, if you doubt the validity. For the record, I’m not crying in my beer. As a retailer, the playing field changes every day. I’ve been adjusting on the fly since forever. It’s just two different perspectives depending on which side of the front register counter you’re standing at. 

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14 hours ago, marka said:

Howdy,

I would be really surprised if they sold stuff at < MAP.

And if that's the case, is selling direct on the web really a big deal?  If its the same price, I'd rather buy from IW or HM or whatever online so that I can get stuff other than just Bauer if I can't get what I want at the price I want locally.

Mark

Why wouldn't they? The end user is already paying MAP. I doubt people care where the product comes from or who the money goes to. They were selling for MAP at their OTM stores. 

 

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1 hour ago, stick9 said:

 They were selling for MAP at their OTM stores. 

 

Even in MN, where MAP didn't really exist.

At the end of the day, this takes the hockey business industry into a place where it's never been before.  It's obviously been accepted in other retail industries, but makes you wonder how the ones you figure would have the biggest gripe and are in a position to bark loudly about it have accepted it.  :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, stick9 said:

Why wouldn't they? The end user is already paying MAP. I doubt people care where the product comes from or who the money goes to. They were selling for MAP at their OTM stores. 

 

If they sell at less than MAP, they risk undercutting shops, which would seriously pee them off, and might induce many to sell only CCM etc. 

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10 minutes ago, Leif said:

If they sell at less than MAP, they risk undercutting shops, which would seriously pee them off, and might induce many to sell only CCM etc. 

That was meant as "why wouldn't they sell for MAP".

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Howdy,

2 hours ago, stick9 said:

Why wouldn't they? The end user is already paying MAP. I doubt people care where the product comes from or who the money goes to. They were selling for MAP at their OTM stores. 

 

Keeping in mind that I don't think there's any way in hell this happens...

The reason they would sell under MAP is because they can do that, make the same $$ per stick, and (perhaps) greatly increase volume.  My bet is that wholesale pricing on sticks is WAY less than retail so if they dropped down to that range they'd have a hell of a competitive advantage in the market compared to the other manufacturers and would presumably increase market share (even more).

Again, I don't think there's any way in hell they actually do that though.

Mark

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3 hours ago, DarkStar50 said:

Define “smaller retailers “. For Bauer that will be those purchasing less than $25k yearly. Their Bauer account will be closed. This is a current policy. For retailers that are not “Elite” Bauer dealers, they no longer have access to the top two price points in skates and protective. In fact those products are off their B2B page so any idea of stock to help inform an in store customer about availability is gone. I imagine this means little to nothing to Bauer corporate but as a retailer this information is part of the process of building a relationship with a customer. Sharing information earns trust. So those “Performance” Bauer dealers may not see a difference in sales initially but if they track month-to-month, year-to-year, the numbers might prove otherwise. Simply study the numbers over the last 10-12 years with internet and Big Box, if you doubt the validity. For the record, I’m not crying in my beer. As a retailer, the playing field changes every day. I’ve been adjusting on the fly since forever. It’s just two different perspectives depending on which side of the front register counter you’re standing at. 

Couple things on all of that though - for the small guys under 25K, while I'm not trying to discredit their business in anyway - they weren't doing hockey as a full fledged career - unless they are okay with living off of 15-25K a year and that would be a generous mark.. They were probably a bike store that dabbed in hockey or a small rink pro shop. While the accounts I know that closed who dabbed in hockey and were bike stores or what have you, were legitimate businessmen and didn't harm the industry, the small rink pro shops I know that closed were the opposite. Not saying that all of them were like that, but if the few I know who closed all were its a little hard for me to see if it wasn't a problem. The bike store that dabbed in hockey used it to service small communities, didn't really profit much if anything from hockey but liked the sport and wanted to support it how they could. They really didn't bring in top-end equipment unless requested, and didn't sell top-end gear out the back door at whsl like I know some Tier 1 2-3M/year stores do. Those are the guys hurt most from this and the ones I genuinely feel bad about closing. They really were insignificant in the grand scheme of things  but they didn't care and were just in hockey to support the local hockey community. These guys were killed from online sales and other B&M stores who took the gambles and tried to become more of a destination and just dwindled and dwindled in sales until Bauer has cut them off. The rink pro shops I know that have closed have all been fronts for the rink to make extra money without caring about policies set forth by the manufactures. They have a B&M store somewhat close to them and were the main competitor to them. Most had stuff marked up high because if you need a stick you'll pay that extra $20 to get it from them, but the ones I know that closed would also use it to force kids from a team to buy from them at full margins even though they have a "deal" or to make the sale they'd take 10-15-20% off a pair of skates that they just order in for them since they got sized at the other store in-town. The reason I think Bauer is limiting stock for the guys bringing in 25-(50?100?) is to curtain tail these types of stores who didn't really support the brand and its integrity and are just in to to make a quick buck. I feel really bad for the stores who were on the upper echelon of the cut-off limit for top-end gear as they do stock, bring in and sell top-end equipment but now they won't be able to. That's really going to hurt them. 

 

Further the stores doing 25K< we're costing Bauer (CCM as well as they've purged their small accounts) an insane amount of overhead. Just think for every one of those stores they had a rep and a credit manager. Who probably had to work harder tracking down money from them as their turnover wouldn't be as good nor their terms as good. If there were 400 accounts closed and each account did 15K that is 6M they buy from Bauer. There are people who are members here who's business does that in a booking or at the very least in a calendar year. So if they can close all of those accounts that's less credit managers they need, less sales reps (or the same amount they can just focus on larger more profitable for Bauer dealers). Its really smart business sense to do what they did. I do not blame them one bit. I'm just hoping they don't purge again and raise the floor to be a dealer, or raise the floor to be an elite product dealer. It'll be great for those who are elite, and absolutely terrible for those who are not. Time will tell. However Bauer will need people to deal with the returns, exchanges, people calling who have no idea what they're doing, so maybe its a wash and they just needed to can the small stores so they can afford to do direct. 

 

One thing to me DS50 that is most intriguing about all of this is how it effects online guys. Unless they have some sort of rewards system to purchase from them I wouldn't waste my time buying from them I'd just get it from Bauer. Especially as more and more people get introduced into hockey I'd have a harder time trusting say purehockey.com compared to bauer.com for Bauer gear since they're the ones making the product. Its like shoes - which one is more trustworthy to buy Nike shoes from? Shoewarehouse.com or Nike.com ? I can see in 5-10 years like how you said be the real telling point on how this effects the industry. I won't be shocked if we see everyone start to go direct - the investment in the website is worth it if you're making both margins. Especially goalie companies like Vaughn and Brian's  - you already have the customizers online, why can't you just add a SSL certificate and a checkout cart? I know they don't sell direct because they don't want to dick with customers and want us dealers to, so maybe that's why it hasn't happened yet. Time will tell. 

 

Most important thing to me is it'll force dealers to start to obey pricing more and should help them stay in business. Bauer has been hard-asses - rightfully so - on pricing in the last year since Ed took back over and its probably been the best thing that's ever happened. That minimum floor is no longer some BS arbitrary number dealers were making up to get the sale so they can shoot themselves in the foot since their neighbor shot themselves in the foot. It wasn't healthy in anyway to the industry to be selling 1X 2015 skates a week after they came out for 699. Nor was it good for NXG or MX3 skates to be sold at 599 at launch. Nor was it good to sell a stick for 299 for 219 or 229. This shit wasn't good for the industry nor themselves and I know it single handily took multiple stores out of business, and caused a lot of heart ache for probably hundreds of people simply because someone thought it was a great idea to try to sell 200 pairs of top-end skates making $100 rather than selling 100 pairs making $200. By Bauer coming into the mix it's going to be harder for a dealer to sell that mid-line stick for $10-20 more. Or mid-line skates for the same upcharge. Pretty much its forcing dealers to abide by the price the manufacture sets out, which will help the stores who do do that. When we would do that we did it on everything and it really showed that once we stopped our sales went up. Yes we were down a couple % points, but if our volume is up more than the margins lost its a net gain. If people get the idea that your store is expensive it'll take a long time to get them to realize that you aren't. We still have people who don't buy from us because 6-8 years ago they came in and bought a stick from me, then went up to MN and saw the same stick for $50 less. By Bauer.com existing and having product set out from them I think that'll matter more than people realize.

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Actually, it is the larger stores that reps are constantly chasing for money. I know of one "well known" chain in these parts that has been in danger of being cut-off by CCM for at least a couple of years now because of the nut they owe.

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52 minutes ago, marka said:

Howdy,

Keeping in mind that I don't think there's any way in hell this happens...

The reason they would sell under MAP is because they can do that, make the same $$ per stick, and (perhaps) greatly increase volume.  My bet is that wholesale pricing on sticks is WAY less than retail so if they dropped down to that range they'd have a hell of a competitive advantage in the market compared to the other manufacturers and would presumably increase market share (even more).

Again, I don't think there's any way in hell they actually do that though.

Mark

The markups on sticks and equipment, in general, isn't as big as people expect.  I won't share any details, but I took a part-time job at a small shop where I am able to buy stuff at cost and I was surprised to see the cost compared to MAP.

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46 minutes ago, marka said:

Howdy,

Keeping in mind that I don't think there's any way in hell this happens...

The reason they would sell under MAP is because they can do that, make the same $$ per stick, and (perhaps) greatly increase volume.  My bet is that wholesale pricing on sticks is WAY less than retail so if they dropped down to that range they'd have a hell of a competitive advantage in the market compared to the other manufacturers and would presumably increase market share (even more).

Again, I don't think there's any way in hell they actually do that though.

Mark

They've just upped their profit margin by eliminating the middle man. There is no need to reduce prices. Companies rarely decrease prices. When they do it's generally a reaction to the market or poor sales. They certainly aren't going to undercut retail chains that continue to buy product from them. There will always be that demographic that's not comfortable buying online so Bauer will need to continue a retail presence.

 

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5 hours ago, strosedefence34 said:

The markups on sticks and equipment, in general, isn't as big as people expect.  I won't share any details, but I took a part-time job at a small shop where I am able to buy stuff at cost and I was surprised to see the cost compared to MAP.

Not sure why you think the markup is low. High-end skates go for about 40% more than cost. MAP is a nightmare but its the only thing that keep the big stores like Hockey Monkey and Pure from crushing little shops like mine. 

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4 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Not sure why you think the markup is low. High-end skates go for about 40% more than cost. MAP is a nightmare but its the only thing that keep the big stores like Hockey Monkey and Pure from crushing little shops like mine. 

40% is still less than most other industries. It’s especially low when you factor in volume of total sales.

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14 minutes ago, stick9 said:

40% is still less than most other industries. It’s especially low when you factor in volume of total sales.

It’s one of the factors why Nike left the hockey business. 

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Can't wait to see what stores charge for fitting fees on the Bauer fitting machine!  $100?  $200?  

Obviously, someone has a plan in place for the Monkey's, Pure, etc. of the world...

And for anyone thinking that CCM is the "white knight" in all of this, they too, in their own way, are fucking the small dealers the way Bauer did by essentially "closing their accounts", aka limiting what the small dealers can buy.

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CCM may not be a “white knight” but they can get credit for not burning down the house in this industry as Bauer did through their previous management’s business practices. 

It will be a mess at the rink though on Saturday and Sunday when little Johnny Hockey shows up without an elbow pad or he left his stick at home and the Pro Shop is no longer in business. I see this all winter long. I don’t think Bauer.com or Amazon Prime will be able to drop that drone delivery in 10 minutes before his Peewee game. 

Grow the game ! Own the moment!

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