mojo122 529 Report post Posted July 26, 2018 On 7/23/2018 at 10:52 PM, Nicholas G said: Regardless of how Bauer decides to "make" these "custom" skates their technology is still behind CCM and True until they move to a monocoque frame. I assume that won't happen for a few more years as they need to wait for all of that fancy hardware they bought to depreciate. Lets be clear, neither True nor CCM came up with the 'monocoque" concept. KOR was the first to use it followed by MLX and Easton. So it's not their ground breaking technology. If a 1-piece boot gave a skater such enhanced energy transfer and performance ,then True and CCM would be the most worn skate in the NHL. 8 hours ago, CigarScott said: I don't know if this link will open for you all but this is the Bauer 3D scan that I got. It recognizes how wide my feet are and it underestimates the length of my feet. It wants me to go into a Vapor eventhough I had to have my 12EE Nexus skates widened as they were too narrow. I was measured in a Bauer Brannock device at was right at size 12 in my left foot. My right foot is smaller but there's no way in hell it's a 9 3/8 skate size as their scanner measures; it may be an 11. I got this and other funky results from the CCM scan which is why I went with True as their process seemed more thorough and included photos in a brannock and photos with hotspots notated. https://my.volumental.com/en/bauer/9f2011d6-46b3-4751-8f7b-5d1e86237a73/?utm_medium=myvemail Not going to pick on shop folks, but just because a shop has a Brannock doesn't mean they know how to use and read it correctly. Barefoot on the Bauer 3D Scanner with a slight knee bend places me in a 7EE Supreme with my EEE width feet. Profit for me is a 6.5EE, but knowing that a skate will be its' smallest when new I wear a 6EE because it's going to get bigger over time. Your 12EE Nexus has way too much volume for your foot and since it's too long your foot isn't sitting in the skate where it should be. I've found the CCM Scanner to be too big as it consistently puts me in a 8EE Tacks and I can fit in 6EE. Someone else that I know who skates in a 9.5D Vapor has his come up at a 12D RibCor. Haven't been scanned for Trues and probably will never be. Just not for me. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chikinpotpie 132 Report post Posted July 26, 2018 And stay off his lawn...... 1 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paddy 11 Report post Posted July 26, 2018 19 hours ago, CigarScott said: I don't know if this link will open for you all but this is the Bauer 3D scan that I got. It recognizes how wide my feet are and it underestimates the length of my feet. It wants me to go into a Vapor eventhough I had to have my 12EE Nexus skates widened as they were too narrow. I was measured in a Bauer Brannock device at was right at size 12 in my left foot. My right foot is smaller but there's no way in hell it's a 9 3/8 skate size as their scanner measures; it may be an 11. I got this and other funky results from the CCM scan which is why I went with True as their process seemed more thorough and included photos in a brannock and photos with hotspots notated. https://my.volumental.com/en/bauer/9f2011d6-46b3-4751-8f7b-5d1e86237a73/?utm_medium=myvemail I'm a bit disappointed, or at least surprised, that skate width is all lumped together. For a custom measurement I'd expect for width to be broken out at the forefoot, midfoot, and heel 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JR Boucicaut 3759 Report post Posted July 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Paddy said: I'm a bit disappointed, or at least surprised, that skate width is all lumped together. For a custom measurement I'd expect for width to be broken out at the forefoot, midfoot, and heel That’s the customer view. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stick9 881 Report post Posted July 26, 2018 22 hours ago, Nicholas G said: I own both. They are also the only manufacturers that have true full self-driving capabilities but have them currently disabled due to government regulations. In many ways, my XC60 Drive Pilot system works better than Tesla Auto Pilot. I also do engineering, specifically focusing on AI, ML, and HPC. The analogy makes sense if you follow technology in automobiles understanding who is investing the most in safety and advanced driving concepts. I won’t get sucked into a virtual pissing match, not gonna happen. Most people here know what I do and who I do it for. In short, I work in engineering for a very large consumer electronic tech company. Not only that, I am a huge car guy. If you want to use cars as an analogy I will. Bauer is Toyota. They make something for just about everyone. People who want more can buy a Lexus. CCM is Honda, similar to Toyota but slightly different. Those consumers who want more can buy an Acura. True is Alfa Romeo, they do one thing and people who love them really love and will buy nothing else, but they accept their shortcomings. TTFN 3 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cavs019 702 Report post Posted July 26, 2018 Yeah, but which car has a monocoque frame and zero negative ass space in the seats? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkStar50 679 Report post Posted July 26, 2018 ^ Ferrari F1. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chippa13 1844 Report post Posted July 26, 2018 Owning a X60 and Tesla, is one of the license plates "PRTNSHS"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoeshine boy 241 Report post Posted July 26, 2018 20 hours ago, CigarScott said: Pure Hockey has just advertised the prices for custom skates from all three manufacturers: https://www.purehockey.com/support/customskates/pg_id/60153?contact_eid=63e3fa0e-0f9f-4ef2-a4dc-f80c51da9ad4&utm_source=bm23&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Better+Fit.+Better+Performance.&utm_content=Better+Fit.+Better+Performance.&utm_campaign=PH+-+Product+Launch+-+CCM+Custom+Skates+-+7/25&_bta_tid=02948280735476430312850232155120121274176283516034060117768464330230588970487075630021033433740863786759 for those of us who can fit into junior skates that is QUITE a price difference between True and the others..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CigarScott 132 Report post Posted July 26, 2018 Must be nice. 🙂 I was surprised that Bauer and CCM would cost more than True as they're much bigger companies that can take advantage of their buying power and economies scale better than True. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dimpledballs 8 Report post Posted July 26, 2018 24 minutes ago, CigarScott said: Must be nice. 🙂 I was surprised that Bauer and CCM would cost more than True as they're much bigger companies that can take advantage of their buying power and economies scale better than True. I imagine that since they've already established that their non-custom top end skates cost $950(2017 1X), they can charge more for their custom skates. If they charged the same as True (950), the consumer would be left wondering if they've been overcharged this whole time for non custom 950$ skates. 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
althoma1 574 Report post Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, dimpledballs said: I imagine that since they've already established that their non-custom top end skates cost $950(2017 1X), they can charge more for their custom skates. If they charged the same as True (950), the consumer would be left wondering if they've been overcharged this whole time for non custom 950$ skates. That, plus the fact that bigger, more established brands can generally charge a premium. They've built more trust, history and brand awareness. They also likely spend more on marketing. At the end of the day, if you're willing to spend around a grand, the difference of $100 or $200 more likely won't be the key factor in your choice. Choosing the skate model that you think will work best for you is ideal, but people will also choose based on brand and aesthetics. It'd be different if the senior prices were 50% less for one brand, but the price gap is marginal when you get to that high price point (I'm not saying $200 is chump change; it's a good chunk of cash, but if you're spending $1000 after taxes it's not a huge amount percentage wise). Edited July 26, 2018 by althoma1 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marka 518 Report post Posted July 26, 2018 Howdy, 54 minutes ago, CigarScott said: Must be nice. 🙂 I was surprised that Bauer and CCM would cost more than True as they're much bigger companies that can take advantage of their buying power and economies scale better than True. Maybe Bauer and CCM won't be delivering skates with random extra glue, liners that pull away after one use, etc. I mean, don't get me wrong, I like True fine and their concepts, but if I ordered a pair I'd be expecting there to be some type of QC issue and happy if there wasn't, vs. expecting everything to be right out of the box. I have a little more confidence that Bauer and CCM won't have those type of issues. Mark 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CigarScott 132 Report post Posted July 26, 2018 I would hope that Bauer and CCM didn't have any of those said issues. 🙂 I think most people have given True a pass due to how much of their processes are still manual and aren't using as much pre-made pieces. Also, up until a few years ago, they were being made in Scott's basement so I don't they're held to the same standard. It seems that a lot of those QC issues have been cleaned up ever since True bought VH but I guess I'll find out for sure in the next week or two. If not, with Bauer and CCM getting into the custom skate game, they'll have to clean up their quality issues to compete on top of Bauer and CCM having more retailers equipped to do custom scans than True; True will have to make it so that half of this country doesn't have to get on a plane to get fitted for them... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SirJW 207 Report post Posted July 26, 2018 With Bauer and CCM they have three lines to choose from in custom. Would the customer really only have one of those lines to choose based on their foot or can he / she get any style? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JR Boucicaut 3759 Report post Posted July 27, 2018 6 hours ago, CigarScott said: If not, with Bauer and CCM getting into the custom skate game They’ve been in it for a long time. 5 hours ago, SirJW said: With Bauer and CCM they have three lines to choose from in custom. Would the customer really only have one of those lines to choose based on their foot or can he / she get any style? The fitter and/or the machine will pick the best line. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CigarScott 132 Report post Posted July 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said: They’ve been in it for a long time. The fitter and/or the machine will pick the best line. I should rephrase what I said: get into the easily-accessible for the general public custom skate game... 🙂 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainFranchise 9 Report post Posted July 27, 2018 Looking at the Pure Hockey page, they have a Nexus 2N Pro listed. What exactly is that, a 1N? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JR Boucicaut 3759 Report post Posted July 27, 2018 11 hours ago, CigarScott said: I should rephrase what I said: get into the easily-accessible for the general public custom skate game... 🙂 It always was. Don’t blame them for it; blame retailers for not hiring/training qualified fitters. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strosedefence34 175 Report post Posted July 27, 2018 Are Tech-Mesh V Cuts still going to be an option? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VegasHockey 1256 Report post Posted July 27, 2018 23 hours ago, chippa13 said: Owning a X60 and Tesla, is one of the license plates "PRTNSHS"? Nope. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adam14 182 Report post Posted July 27, 2018 Customs are nothing new, and the 100 dollar upcharge from their retail off the shelf price point has been the norm at least since I've been fitting skates. I'm goad CCM and Bauer are offering these options, I think thanks to all the manufacturing and tech advancements weve seen in the last decade it's made the production of customs much more seamless than it used to be (when they were custom built in Canada) is a huge factor as to why they are pushing this so mainstream. I've always told customers if you're spending 1000 bucks on skates already, what's another 100 to get a full custom fit that shouldn't give your feet any issues. It's a no brainer really. On another note, I'm glad this is much more user friendly when fitting customs than Bauer's "custom order sheets" from previous years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IPv6Freely 2082 Report post Posted July 27, 2018 Nothing new, though most people (myself included) didn’t realize you could do more than just the order sheet and get TRUE customs (no pun intended). That’s on the retailers for either not educating people, and/or not having fitters who know or care. Adding the scanner makes it something any retailer will be able to do, which is going to help a ton. I envision my next pair of goalie skates to be Bauer, now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mojo122 529 Report post Posted July 27, 2018 13 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said: Nothing new, though most people (myself included) didn’t realize you could do more than just the order sheet and get TRUE customs (no pun intended). That’s on the retailers for either not educating people, and/or not having fitters who know or care. Adding the scanner makes it something any retailer will be able to do, which is going to help a ton. I envision my next pair of goalie skates to be Bauer, now. I'd place the blame on training more on the manufacturers. I would think that Their sales reps would be making sure their retail customers had both the training and product knowledge for their products. The Bauer 3D Skate Lab is more consistent than a brannock because it's hard to misuse. Step in, slight knee bend, and get your results. Having said that the scanner makes a recommendation for best fit, not the only fit. It's now up to the fitter to elicit the right feedback from the customer to dial it all in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IPv6Freely 2082 Report post Posted July 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, mojo122 said: I'd place the blame on training more on the manufacturers. I would think that Their sales reps would be making sure their retail customers had both the training and product knowledge for their products. The Bauer 3D Skate Lab is more consistent than a brannock because it's hard to misuse. Step in, slight knee bend, and get your results. Having said that the scanner makes a recommendation for best fit, not the only fit. It's now up to the fitter to elicit the right feedback from the customer to dial it all in. I agree it’s definitely also on the manufacturer for not getting that info out there, especially because it resulted in True sweeping in with the “custom to your foot” thing making it sound like they’re the only ones who do it. As for the scanner, yeah at this point with it just recommending a fit I wouldn’t bother. But once the scanner is used to make fully custom boots like the True scanner, I’ll be all over it. I’m going to ask for skates for Christmas so maybe by then it will be up and running! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites