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VGN

New Skates - I messed up (boot depth/volume)

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Been in vapors for a while, but Ive always kind of had problems with boot depth, and the toe box on vapors is very narrow - so my pinky toe gets crammed pretty hard.  Tried on Nexus and they are a little better with the toe box, but then everything else just doesn't feel nice and sung like it does with my vapors (not sure if a bake would have helped, but EVERYTHING felt big).   My foot is not wide, but is definitely taller than normal feet.  Here's a picture to show what I mean:

sdfasdfasdf.jpg

 

I tried on a friends supreme and they seemed to cure all my problems.  I almost bought his skates from him that's how good they felt.  Anyways I knew new supremes were coming out in July so I waited patiently for a few months for them to release thinking they would finally solve my problems.

 

Well I went and picked up them right when they came out.  I got the highest SMU model (ignite pro plus) for $650.  They felt OK when trying out, but I figured baking and skating would break them in and then Id be good.  Well its been about 5 or so skates and I don't see any improvement over my vapors.  In fact they might even have less depth than my vapors.  The toe box might be a little better, but not so much.

 

I guess I should have been able to tell when I tried them on in the store.  I don't think I even come close to passing the pencil test, but I just thought maybe Id get better wrap the more they break in.  I guess I just figured since my friends fit perfect, these would too eventually. 

 

Heres some pics of the fit and my foot:

DSC_0088.jpg

DSC_0086.jpg

DSC_0085.jpg

 

So I guess Ill be selling these.  Ill probably lose a couple hundred bucks on ebay.  This was what I was trying to avoid (obviously) - since I am willing to spend money on skates, but didn't want to be in the same situation after dropping money on new skates.

 

So my question is: What skates have the amount of depth I need without being too wide? 

 

I look around at the people I play with, and I dont ever think Ive ever had a pair of skates with that kind of wrap.  I know its effecting my skating, since Im not really "locked" in like I should be. 

 

I have considered going custom, but its the same worry I had before buying these.  What if I spend 1k and they still give me problems?  Im guessing trying to resell those will be even worse because who wants to buy someone elses customized skates?

 

Anyways - any suggestions would be appreciated. 

 

Thanks.

Edited by JSK81
Soliciting outside buy/sell forums

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16 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Are you open to skates other than Bauer? Can you snap pics of the front and back of your foot, please? 

 

Yes, Ill go with any company as long as they fit.  I actually also have a pair of Mako II that fit better than any other pair Ive used before, but I stopped using them because 1. They offer very little protection and I take a lot of shots off the boot at the point, and 2. I really don't like the tendon guard on the Mako.  It feels like its not even there.  Also - they arent all that stiff.  Its hard to explain if youve never worn makos, but they almost feel like a pair of basketball shoes, which can be a good and bad thing, but I do like the feeling of being in a boot, which is why I went back to my Vapors before buying the supremes.

 

I just spent some time trying the three of them on, and my vapor has more depth than the supreme, which doesn't make sense (according to Bauer).  Im definitely gonna sell these, but I just hate to spend money on something that might not work out.  My biggest fear is paying $1k for skates and having the same issue. 

 

How should I take the picture?  Just barefoot with different angles, or with the skate on? 

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3 hours ago, VGN said:

Yes, Ill go with any company as long as they fit.  I actually also have a pair of Mako II that fit better than any other pair Ive used before, but I stopped using them because 1. They offer very little protection and I take a lot of shots off the boot at the point, and 2. I really don't like the tendon guard on the Mako.  It feels like its not even there.  Also - they arent all that stiff.  Its hard to explain if youve never worn makos, but they almost feel like a pair of basketball shoes, which can be a good and bad thing, but I do like the feeling of being in a boot, which is why I went back to my Vapors before buying the supremes.

 

I just spent some time trying the three of them on, and my vapor has more depth than the supreme, which doesn't make sense (according to Bauer).  Im definitely gonna sell these, but I just hate to spend money on something that might not work out.  My biggest fear is paying $1k for skates and having the same issue. 

 

How should I take the picture?  Just barefoot with different angles, or with the skate on? 

Customs. You pay $75-100 fee. The shop needs to be reputable for fitting. You need extended quarters and facing. 1. Find the right shop that can do it 2. Reps don’t know everything neither does the fitter so have some research in your back pocket but be open minded 3. The end. I messed around with 7 pairs of skates before ponying up the money for customs. Don’t waste time or money putting a square into a round peg hole. Find the best fitting ish skate retail and modify that. 

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21 minutes ago, 60PlusWinger said:

Customs. You pay $75-100 fee. The shop needs to be reputable for fitting. You need extended quarters and facing. 1. Find the right shop that can do it 2. Reps don’t know everything neither does the fitter so have some research in your back pocket but be open minded 3. The end. I messed around with 7 pairs of skates before ponying up the money for customs. Don’t waste time or money putting a square into a round peg hole. Find the best fitting ish skate retail and modify that. 

What brand and where?  I know VH customs were the most recommended, but I guess theyre owned by TRUE now.  Same quality? I remember I sent Scott my foot measurements a while back just to ask if my feet were out of the ordinary, and should Vapor/Supreme work for me, he said my feet were normal and nothing about the measurements seemed weird. 

 

Where did you get yours done?

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I’m in Bauer. I live in New England so where might not help. If you’re posting here you’ll probably get pushed into VH/True because everyone here seems to think that they’re the end all be all for custom skates but I disagree. Depends on what you want to spend and where you’re willing to travel. From what I can see your ankle is the issue. You need volume but only there really.

 

I need your measurements but I wouldn’t doubt you could make a Supreme boot work with a +1 or +2 quarter/facing. Nexus line is not for you and it looks like you’d be turning a Vapor boot into a frankenskate before you’re done which defeats the purpose. You need to do homework on the most knowledgeable shops in your area but don’t let a regular sales rep touch your feet. They usually don’t know anything about fitting and customs are only as good as your fitters knowledge. That Bauer 3D scan is just the beginning too not the end all be all: it’s work. $950+Fee. And you need to order soon or you’re gonna wait forever behind the pro orders. I order in May when I do. 

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A couple of things here. I am no fitting expert but I’ve had my share of bad fits.

Did you have your foot scanned? What model did the scanner put you in? Was there a secondary fit option? Did someone measure your foot and assist you fitting the skates? What was their recommendation? What about other brands, did you try any? Have you tried going to another store...one with more experienced fitters?

Your friends Supreme, what model and size were they and what footbed was used? 

Reason I ask, sometimes a longer skate can feel as though it has more volume. The model itself could be cut a bit differently than what you purchased, I stress could be. The footbed could be flatter or take up less volume allowing your foot to sit deeper in the boot.

Something doesn’t jive with pics of your foot in the skate. If you are that far out over the top on a Supreme you’d need a vice to your foot into a Vapor, which you said you wore for years. The angle of your shin makes me think you were flexing the arch up and not kicked all the way back into the boot. Also, what footbed is in those skates, stock or something like a Superfeet? Certain footbeds can reduce volume.

Did you ask if the Nexus came in a C width?

Edited by stick9

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6 hours ago, stick9 said:

A couple of things here. I am no fitting expert but I’ve had my share of bad fits.

Did you have your foot scanned? What model did the scanner put you in? Was there a secondary fit option? Did someone measure your foot and assist you fitting the skates? What was their recommendation? What about other brands, did you try any? Have you tried going to another store...one with more experienced fitters?

Your friends Supreme, what model and size were they and what footbed was used? 

Reason I ask, sometimes a longer skate can feel as though it has more volume. The model itself could be cut a bit differently than what you purchased, I stress could be. The footbed could be flatter or take up less volume allowing your foot to sit deeper in the boot.

Something doesn’t jive with pics of your foot in the skate. If you are that far out over the top on a Supreme you’d need a vice to your foot into a Vapor, which you said you wore for years. The angle of your shin makes me think you were flexing the arch up and not kicked all the way back into the boot. Also, what footbed is in those skates, stock or something like a Superfeet? Certain footbeds can reduce volume.

Did you ask if the Nexus came in a C width?

Never had my foot scanned.  Yes someone helped, but just basically echoed what I said.  Vapor was a little too shallow, I was swimming in nexus, so supreme was the way to go. Also once it was baked, it would fit much better.

 

I tried on other brands (mostly CCM), but I guess I had it in my head that supreme was the right fit after trying out my friends.  His was a half size bigger than what I normally wear and I think they were just normal footbeds.  I'll have to ask next time I see him, but im starting to suspect that maybe they were pro stock - they were supreme 1S. 

 

I tried different footbeds with my current skates (and even no footbed to see it if felt any different) but no help.  I would go back there, but I dont know what they can do for me at this point.  Just gonna have to sell I guess.

 

What Ive seen from Bauer is crazy inconsistency even within the same line.  My Vapor X 5.0 is what I was using and is much deeper than my new supreme.  I also had a pair of used x70 vapors that were more shallow than the 5.0, but also one boot was deeper than the other.  I owned a used pair of one.6 supreme that were shallow as well. 

 

My foot was flat in the picture.  I can lace them up and take pics to show the differences later today, but in order of deepest to most shallow its mako, vapor, supreme, and I think the pictures will back me up.  The footbeds are just normal Bauer "lock fit".  I also have superfeet and tried them but no help.

 

Whats C width btw?

 

I think at this point custom is the only option for me.  I didnt really want to spend the money, but over the years of trying stuff out I probably have spent just as much. 

 

Either that or I should just learn to deal with the almost non-existent tendon guard of the makos, and maybe get skate guards so I dont break my foot again. 

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NO. Too much random info flying around. C width Nexus boot isn’t going to fix his problem just get his overthinking wheels spinning. I sent you a message, you need to take the advice and get your drive on. You’re already going to lose a good chunk of money being your own fitter. I’ve gone through my own fitting woes, did my own fittings for the next two pairs and now I don’t even think about my skates because of the fit. They’re just there. Supreme boot as your base. Everyone has a hard on for scanning this and 3D that... this isn’t the end all be all or fool proof by any means. Ask pros that I know who even have lasts made of their feet and it’s still not good enough. TSR/Zwickers. The end. 

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A half size bigger explains why your friends skates felt better. In general, going up in size makes the skate seem like it has more volume, it doesn’t. It’s how your foot sits in the boot in relation to everything else. 

I agree with some of 60+’s comments, shocking I know. At this point you need to see someone who knows what they are doing. Zwickers and or TSR are great places. I’ll PM you another option as well.

That said, you should still try working with the shop that sold you the skates. Maybe they’d be willing to take them back for store credit or give you some sort break if buy another skate from them. Doesn’t mean you have to get fitted there.

Edited by stick9
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Thanks guys, got both your PMs, im gonna try to check out one of those places in the next few weeks.  I didn't even know custom skates like that were possible outside of True, so well see what they say.

 

I will try to go back to the place that sold me them, but I dont know what theyre gonna be able to do for me.  I cant return them, and I dont want to buy another pair of skates from them, so I think im SOL.  Hoping to sell them locally or on ebay. 

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For what it's worth, my old skates, supreme one.6 were overly shallow as well. When i started skating weekly i immediately had to get out of them and ended up in retail super tacks that were 1/2 size smaller than my bauers and felt much better.

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23 hours ago, VGN said:

Thanks guys, got both your PMs, im gonna try to check out one of those places in the next few weeks.  I didn't even know custom skates like that were possible outside of True, so well see what they say.

 

I will try to go back to the place that sold me them, but I dont know what theyre gonna be able to do for me.  I cant return them, and I dont want to buy another pair of skates from them, so I think im SOL.  Hoping to sell them locally or on ebay. 

This is why CCM is a better option than Bauer. They offer a 90 day no questions asked return policy on all of their skates.....

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I wear Vapor's and Supreme's give me major lace bite because of how shallow they are. Like some of the others said, you're best bet is go full custom. Whether that's True, CCM or Bauer, you need a full custom boot to your specs. If you do end up in retail, you need to make sure that you pass the pencil test first and foremost. You can fix depth, but you can punch out tight spots. If you were to go Bauer and your Vapors were good for depth and heel lock, you might need to just get a pair with a wider toe cap. Best bet is to get scanned and see what your options are. I agree with Nicholas though, CCM is a good way to go because of their 90 day, no questions asked guarantee.

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