Outside edges question

[Leif 160]

JC225: Thanks. I used to be among the best in our team at forwards cross rolls (outside edges drill) with a good lean. The ice is currently hard, so I get less grip, and the boots give me more ankle flexibility, so I have to concentrate more on the outside edge placement as the boots don't do the work for me. Also my old blades were flat due to sharpens removing the profile. 🙁 So yes I'm doing outside edge drills, to get used to the new skates, and learn (again) to ride the edges correctly. I think I will try 7/16" tomorrow, I can always switch back. 

[JC225 6]

Hey Leif,

Sound good my friend! Give that 7/16 a try and let us know how it goes. Like you said, you can always switch back to the 1/2 if it doesn't work for you. With the harder ice, I think you will find the 7/16 is a nice change that will give you a bit more edge and stability to work with during your edge drills. 

 

[Leif 160]

On 12/7/2018 at 12:26 PM, JC225 said:

Hey Leif,

Sound good my friend! Give that 7/16 a try and let us know how it goes. Like you said, you can always switch back to the 1/2 if it doesn't work for you. With the harder ice, I think you will find the 7/16 is a nice change that will give you a bit more edge and stability to work with during your edge drills. 

 

Had them sharpened to 7/16” yesterday, did two hours general skating yesterday and one hour today, and wow, I can’t believe the grip I’m getting, my outside edges are back, my crossovers are not slipping, my tight turns are not slipping. Stopping was a bit tricky at first, but I learnt to reduce the blade angle to avoid digging in too much. I think I’ll stick to this DoH till the softer ice returns at the end of the hockey season, and then maybe go back to 1/2” depending on how it feels. 

[JC225 6]

Hey Leif,

Sorry for the late response, work has been crazy this week. That's awesome, I'm so glad the 7/16 helped you out. It definitely has some bite to it but again it really helped me out while learning to use those edges. However as you pointed out, It was a little difficult at first because you can really dig in and that can make stopping and transition skills a bit more unforgiving.  It sounds like you have really found a good spot and have already made great improvements in your skating my friend.

Stay at it and keep us posted on how the season goes!

 

[Leif 160]

32 minutes ago, JC225 said:

Hey Leif,

Sorry for the late response, work has been crazy this week. That's awesome, I'm so glad the 7/16 helped you out. It definitely has some bite to it but again it really helped me out while learning to use those edges. However as you pointed out, It was a little difficult at first because you can really dig in and that can make stopping and transition skills a bit more unforgiving.  It sounds like you have really found a good spot and have already made great improvements in your skating my friend.

Stay at it and keep us posted on how the season goes!

 

Thanks. Out of interest how much do you weigh? I weigh 11 stone or 70 kg in new money, which is fairly light by ice hockey standards. Apparently the most popular hollows in the NHL (and I in no way compare my skating and hockey with that of NHL players) are 1/2" and 5/8", but NHL players will be quite a bit heavier than me on average. 

[JC225 6]

Hey Leif,

I'm not really heavy at all. I'm about 6'2" and weigh only about 180 pounds so I'm a bit taller and thinner.

I do believe you are correct with the 5/8 and 1/2 being the NHL's choice of hollows. If I had to guess I think the 1/2 is probably the universal standard for most of the hockey community as a whole. There are certainly players that like other choices but again I think the 1/2 is probably the most common all around request.

[Leif 160]

Thanks, yes you’re not heavy, probably fairly lean given your height, you should perhaps have a slightly shallower hollow than me based on weight alone. I’m fairly lean too. 1/2” seems to be the standard hollow in the U.K. that you get given by default. 

[Vet88 673]

8 hours ago, Leif said:

Thanks. Out of interest how much do you weigh? I weigh 11 stone or 70 kg in new money, which is fairly light by ice hockey standards. Apparently the most popular hollows in the NHL (and I in no way compare my skating and hockey with that of NHL players) are 1/2" and 5/8", but NHL players will be quite a bit heavier than me on average. 

A couple of years ago the Pens sharpening roster was posted here, if I recall correctly only 3 were on 1/2" and a couple of others on 5/8". There was no common hollow, the variation was large across the playing roster.

[JC225 6]

Ya, I'm definitely leaner and staying in that 1/2, 5/8 area seems to work best for me. I remember trying different ones until I finally found that one that felt like it gave me the best of both worlds for glide and bite. I really do like both the 1/2 and the 5/8 and feel each one is a great hollow. For me staying in this area allows me to things like slide turns but still have enough edge to punch stop and such with ease.

[Vet88 673]

14 hours ago, JC225 said:

Hey Leif,

I'm not really heavy at all. I'm about 6'2" and weigh only about 180 pounds so I'm a bit taller and thinner.

I do believe you are correct with the 5/8 and 1/2 being the NHL's choice of hollows. If I had to guess I think the 1/2 is probably the universal standard for most of the hockey community as a whole. There are certainly players that like other choices but again I think the 1/2 is probably the most common all around request.

Ha, all I had to do was search. 3 on 1/2, most common is 5/8, large variation from shallowest to deepest.

 

[Leif 160]

3 hours ago, Vet88 said:

Ha, all I had to do was search. 3 on 1/2, most common is 5/8, large variation from shallowest to deepest.

 

I found the same image, albeit linked from a different forum. As you say, ~5/8" is the commonest, but there's a fair bit of variation. There is a 5/16" but no 'death grind' (1/4"). Mind you some do have different profiles which will alter the ice feel for a given hollow. There's a survey of amateurs here: 

 

Lots of ~5/8" but I'm amazed at some of the really shallow grinds. A friend used to play UK semi-pro 30 years ago and he does not even know his hollow. He's a brilliant skater too. A good figure skater I asked had no idea. How can you skate and not know your preferred hollow? 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Leif

[strosedefence34 175]

3 hours ago, Leif said:

I found the same image, albeit linked from a different forum. As you say, ~5/8" is the commonest, but there's a fair bit of variation. There is a 5/16" but no 'death grind' (1/4"). Mind you some do have different profiles which will alter the ice feel for a given hollow. There's a survey of amateurs here: 

 

Lots of ~5/8" but I'm amazed at some of the really shallow grinds. A friend used to play UK semi-pro 30 years ago and he does not even know his hollow. He's a brilliant skater too. A good figure skater I asked had no idea. How can you skate and not know your preferred hollow? 

Wayyyy more common than you think.  I was once talking to an ex AHL/ ECHL pro and he said: "I don't know what size skates I wear they just measure my foot and hand me a pair of skates". For every pro like Crosby who is extremely in tune with everything and knows everything about their gear, there are at least 3 guys who don't care/ know.

[CigarScott 132]

On 12/11/2018 at 7:32 AM, strosedefence34 said:

Wayyyy more common than you think.  I was once talking to an ex AHL/ ECHL pro and he said: "I don't know what size skates I wear they just measure my foot and hand me a pair of skates". For every pro like Crosby who is extremely in tune with everything and knows everything about their gear, there are at least 3 guys who don't care/ know.

I was walking through our rink a couple months ago after our SPHL team practice with my True skates and they looked at them with amazement as they had no idea True existed or there was someone else besides Bauer or CCM making skates so I've seen it first hand my our local pro players not to mention dudes at my rink who've played for 20+ years that have no clue about any of the gear they use. So for every one gear nerd who's on forums like this there are tons more players who just buy whatever is on sale or what looks cool to them.

[stick9 881]

We've had this conversation before. There are many pros who have no idea what hollow they skate. They tell the equipment guy, "sharper" or "not so sharp". Seems crazy but it makes sense when you think about. Most of these guys started off having their dad take care of those things. As they moved through the ranks it went from dad to coaches to equipment managers.

There is the other side where you see people who've played their entire lives and still don't know how a skate is supposed to fit. The looks I get when people hear I wear a size 5.5 skate and a 9 street shoe. 

We are the exception, not the rule.

[Vet88 673]

1 hour ago, stick9 said:

We are the exception, not the rule.

Haha, so true. And you would not believe the number of people who have asked me for a stick with a "flat" or "roundish" curve. I ask then what curve they currently use and they hand me their stick........

[Leif 160]

6 hours ago, stick9 said:

There is the other side where you see people who've played their entire lives and still don't know how a skate is supposed to fit. The looks I get when people hear I wear a size 5.5 skate and a 9 street shoe. 

We are the exception, not the rule.

Funny you should say that. On Tuesday evening some friends saw my new skates, and asked about them. They were amazed I had size 6.5 skates. Theirs were sizes 10 and 11. We were all a similar height and build, and my shoe size is UK 9. They had CCM skates and mine are Bauer customs so maybe that explains some of the size difference. 

To be honest I don't really care about most of my kit, I buy high end pads as they provide good protection, but I do not care about the details as long as they fit okay. I do care about skates and Sam at the LHS says I am 'fussy' about my feet and skates. When I started learning to skate, I had so much trouble with badly sharpened skates, and a pair of skates 'fitted' by a hockey coach that did not fit and which caused several injuries including a head impact on the ice, that I now take great care with my skates and runners. 

[stick9 881]

It's not that yours are custom. It's that they are in the wrong size skates. 

[Leif 160]

30 minutes ago, stick9 said:

It's not that yours are custom. It's that they are in the wrong size skates. 

Yes, my stock Bauer skates were size 7. I was thinking more along the lines of CCM versus Bauer sizing. Incidentally they are very good (freestyle) skaters. 

[stick9 881]

7 hours ago, Leif said:

Yes, my stock Bauer skates were size 7. I was thinking more along the lines of CCM versus Bauer sizing. Incidentally they are very good (freestyle) skaters. 

If they are different, it's not by that much of a margin. I'm willing to bet they bought based off their shoe size or they went up in size when the skate was too tight. They should have gone wider or to a different model.

[Cavs019 702]

I’m a 10 shoe and a 7 skate. I think I can fit my foot, my phone and a few snacks in case I get hungry on the bench in an 8.5. To be honest I’m surprised they still print the “1.5 size down” on the skate.

Has it ever been relevant/accurate? 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Cavs019

[Leif 160]

The skates I had that were too big literally had room for a 16340 battery in the toe cap with room to spare while I was wearing them. That means they were at least 16mm too long. That LHS owner was as thick as pig poop.