New True Lid

[Sniper9 515]

8 hours ago, darkhors said:

Coldclay, that's really interesting. I obviously play beer league so I'm not hitting on a regular basis, but I'm surprised that it caused that much damage to his forehead. I wonder if it could have potentially happened because the inside rotated and then was pushed into his head? It's definitely an interesting issue. Does he wear his helmet tight against his head or does he like a little space? I know that sounds like a silly question, but I know a lot of kids who will size their helmets tight, then back them off so they move a little. Wondering if maybe that could be a cause too. 

I hope his head has healed up!

Or maybe caused by the ledge of the helmet at the forehead that I was speaking about before. How the plastic wraps over and literally is almost in contact with the forehead. 

[VegasHockey 1256]

On 2/25/2020 at 11:35 AM, marka said:

Howdy,

Sorry to read about your son's head injury!  Hopefully no long term effects.

I really wish that manufacturers would prioritize protection over looks/weight/gimmicks and then back that up with published testing results.
 

The poor VT testing results and this anecdotal report have certainly put an end to any interest I had in the new True lid, despite my interest in the MIPS system.

Mark

VT testing is insufficient for hockey. I appreciate them trying, but until they change their testing methods their ranking are essentially useless. 

[Coldclay 53]

On 2/25/2020 at 10:28 AM, darkhors said:

Coldclay, that's really interesting. I obviously play beer league so I'm not hitting on a regular basis, but I'm surprised that it caused that much damage to his forehead. I wonder if it could have potentially happened because the inside rotated and then was pushed into his head? It's definitely an interesting issue. Does he wear his helmet tight against his head or does he like a little space? I know that sounds like a silly question, but I know a lot of kids who will size their helmets tight, then back them off so they move a little. Wondering if maybe that could be a cause too. 

I hope his head has healed up!

The True helmet fits my son appropriately, not too tight and just loose enough, with no swag ass helmet/cage hang of any kind... A medium was the right size for a 5'7" 150 lbs kid with a thick fro providing some natural cushioning. However, the problem was that True's MIPS didn't do enough to dissipate impact to justify and support the poor absorbing quality of the spongy pads. And with the little amount of pads built into the helmet, means your head is right up against the hard EPP foam... It needs a way higher quality padding and a lot more of it inside to make the True Dynamic 9 helmet safe IMO.

Can't someone just make the original Re-Akt with MIPS?!

[VegasHockey 1256]

36 minutes ago, Coldclay said:

The True helmet fits my son appropriately, not too tight and just loose enough, with no swag ass helmet/cage hang of any kind... A medium was the right size for a 5'7" 150 lbs kid with a thick fro providing some natural cushioning. However, the problem was that True's MIPS didn't do enough to dissipate impact to justify and support the poor absorbing quality of the spongy pads. And with the little amount of pads built into the helmet, means your head is right up against the hard EPP foam... It needs a way higher quality padding and a lot more of it inside to make the True Dynamic 9 helmet safe IMO.

Can't someone just make the original Re-Akt with MIPS?!

To be honest and fair. I am not sure other helmets would have faired much better than the TRUE helmet. Perhaps there would have been less result from the initial impact with other helmets but the MIPS design is more focused on the secondary and third impacts that usually result in the game of hockey as compared to many other sports. This is why the VT study is insufficient as it doesn't take rotational injuries into account and focuses solely on a single impact despite their claims "Our impact tests evaluate a helmet's ability to reduce linear and rotational acceleration of the head resulting from a range of head impacts a hockey player might experience during play."

If you look at these ridiculous ratings they rate the CCM 710 and 310 helmet at 0 stars. Same with the Warrior Alpha helmets as well. Yet the Bauer 2100 has 2 stars......

 

 

[Coldclay 53]

23 minutes ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

To be honest and fair. I am not sure other helmets would have faired much better than the TRUE helmet.

 

 

Perhaps, but all I know is that he has worn a Re-Akt for the past 3-4 yrs and not ONCE has the Re-Akt failed anywhere near as the True lid did on it's first actual game... ONE game was all it took for him to say enough with this hard hat. He has never had a bruise appearing anywhere north of his chin of any sort using the Re-Akt. And frankly, I haven't cared for the VT Study since 2011.

[BenBreeg 488]

1 hour ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

 This is why the VT study is insufficient as it doesn't take rotational injuries into account and focuses solely on a single impact despite their claims "Our impact tests evaluate a helmet's ability to reduce linear and rotational acceleration of the head resulting from a range of head impacts a hockey player might experience during play."

 

So, when they describe how they added rotational components to their protocol and explain their methodology, they are lying?  We can argue about whether there are better methods, but at least be factually correct because from what I read in their protocol, there are 4 impact locations, delivered at 3 different energy levels, and they measure both linear and rotational acceleration.  What am I missing?

[VegasHockey 1256]

40 minutes ago, BenBreeg said:

So, when they describe how they added rotational components to their protocol and explain their methodology, they are lying?  We can argue about whether there are better methods, but at least be factually correct because from what I read in their protocol, there are 4 impact locations, delivered at 3 different energy levels, and they measure both linear and rotational acceleration.  What am I missing?

In hockey, unlike football, injuries are rarely from initial head impact acceleration, its the secondary and third impacts that cause the most harm.

If you read this article they mention “The front location is where kids hit their head the most and at high energies, so that front pad plays a big role,” Rowson said. “The lower-rated helmets would test considerably better simply by reducing the stiffness of that front padding.”

Based on the methodology they are using to test hockey helmets you can see the serious error here in the way they are rating helmets. 

https://vtnews.vt.edu/articles/2019/03/ictas-youthfootballratings.html

I am also not saying that HECC or other methods are any better though. There is serious faults with HECC testing as well.

The helmet's performance is evaluated by testing the chinstrap for strength and elongation and by testing the impact absorption properties of the helmet liner. All tests are performed using helmets attached to headforms that simulate different sizes of the human head. For the retention system, the helmet is placed on a headform and a load is applied using a device to simulate the chin bone structure. The strength and elongation properties of the helmet strap are evaluated. Dropping a helmet (with the headform inside) onto a flat hard surface tests the impact absorption properties. When dropped onto the flat surface, instruments in the headform measure the force transmitted through the helmet to the headform. This test is performed at ambient, hot and cold conditions. At each of these conditions the helmet must absorb a minimum amount of energy in order to meet the requirements of the standard.

In general, we need a better way of testing helmet for hockey. If anything, I think MIPS is doing good with their testing currently. However even they need to make some changes as well.

https://helmets.org/mips.htm 

https://helmets.org/mipstestpresentation.pdf

[BenBreeg 488]

The article is only about the football testing.  Here is their what i assume initial publication, which talks about how they specifically test hockey helmets.  Again, lots can be debated, but assertions and critiques must be factually correct.

https://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/ABME 2015 Hocky STAR Rowson Rowson Duma.pdf

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

15 hours ago, Coldclay said:

Can't someone just make the original Re-Akt with MIPS?!

Well, it’s already made; just depending on how you interpret the court ruling 😆

[mtn 20]

14 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

Well, it’s already made; just depending on how you interpret the court ruling 😆

Care to explain this for those of us who don't keep up with all the news/rumors/etc.?

 

I really want a 4500 with better padding. Love the look. Love the fit. Don't believe that it provides the best protection in todays day and age.

[IPv6Freely 2082]

Okay guys leave the VT stuff in that thread. We don’t need to rehash why it’s meaningless every time it gets brought up 

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

20 hours ago, mtn said:

Care to explain this for those of us who don't keep up with all the news/rumors/etc.?

Bauer was working on a partnership with MIPS. Went sideways, Bauer makes RE-AKT. 

MIPS sued. 

http://www.aitkenklee.com/bauer-hockey-helmets-avoid-infringement-injury/

[mtn 20]

17 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

Bauer was working on a partnership with MIPS. Went sideways, Bauer makes RE-AKT. 

MIPS sued. 

http://www.aitkenklee.com/bauer-hockey-helmets-avoid-infringement-injury/

Thanks! 

 

Do you have an opinion on the True compared to the RE-AKT?

[JR Boucicaut 3759]

I don't.  I was hoping on doing a teardown/review but TRUE never sent me a helmet.

[VegasHockey 1256]

5 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said:

I don't.  I was hoping on doing a teardown/review but TRUE never sent me a helmet.

I have an extra I can send you if you want to do a tear down. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by SkateWorksPNW

[jgold47 12]

So a year+ in anyone still using one who can comment on how they’ve held up? 
 

also, liked the idea of using d3o as padding. Is it durable enough to be directly against skin? Seems like every application is behind cloth with just a little showing.