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SolarWind

CCM 100k pro skates: early impressions

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16 hours ago, SolarWind said:

Completely agree, which is why I went and bough my first ever CCM skate 🙂
I think the last revolutionary skate Bauer had was One95. It had some initial issues (they were bricks) to they refined it over Total One & NXG, but after that the progress seemed to have stopped for them. And now with CCM holding patent over one-piece boots there is just not much wiggle room for Bauer it seems other than adding gimmicks here & there... 

I had reinforced eyelets in my Bauers, which is a 1mm plastic insert that runs along the edge of the skate. It doesn't heat mold nor bend, and as a result with Bauers they provided zero wrap. Which is why it's so foreign to me to have the boot form C at the top vs U. So my question is - is that even Ok? Should the top eyelets wrap around the ankle?

There are youtubes of Scott Van Horne molding the skates but dealing with top eyelets separately: not lacing them, limiting the amount of shrink wrap around the ankle area, or there is even one where he uses heat gun to open up top eyelets hence the question above.

Maybe the boot have too much volume for my ankles or I needed to be flexing forward during the molding process?
Any pics would be appreciated, just to have a reference point.
Totally caught me off guard since the skate felt like a cast/ski boot, it didn't seem to have much forward flex when laced all the way up.

 

CCM doesn't have a patent on one-piece boots overall. They have patent over a particular method of construction. So does True. So does Bauer: they own the Mako and MLX IP.

There is no should/should not, only personal preference. One could work with you and make a recommendation if you're not sure. But there's no blanket statement about what to do. Kovalchuk: wrapped upper eyelets but creased to hell. It's always worked great for him. Shane Wright, the complete opposite (at least in Bauer, haven't been able to find a clear shot of his Trues that isn't too dark to see any detail). It's all up to the skater and the skates having a good relationship.

Your images didn't match at all what I was expecting from your description. That's a bit of wrap, but nothing crazy. Looks very normal. Just a slight inclination from the sidewalls toward the midline of the boot. 

Edited by flip12
Forgot about MLX
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as I mentioned the pictured don't do justice, so here's a couple more shots side by side next to my NXGs:

https://ibb.co/Twb9D3r - notice that 100Ks are a much deeper boot around the top 3 eyelets, the rest of the boot has the same depth as the Supremes. also notice the shape up top, even unlaced it's very pronounced C vs U. 

https://ibb.co/0nv92gQ - as a result they complete wrap around my ankles. Can't figure out what the best angle to take the pic is to demonstrate it, but the result is that when I flex forward in a fully laced boot it actually creases massively around the 5th eyelet, the area where the top of the foot meets the ankle (not sure what the proper term is - mid foot?).

In Supremes the ankle just flexes forward through the laces while the foot stays locked in place.

I'm a strong skater, and pretty strong overall (190 lbs, 500 lb squat), but fully laced in 100K it's a struggle to bring the kneecaps over the toes. the weirdest part is - stopping on the outside edge all of a sudden is a challenge, ankle angle/flexion patter must be all wrong, catching edges vs stopping...

I'll keep trying, ice availability is quite limited so going even twice a week is a challenge... 

 

Edited by SolarWind

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I am going to go on a limb here and say the CCM probably have too much depth for you.

I found the 100K fit a bit odd, had almost too much depth and volume for me (someone who gets lace bite with everything but Tacks and Nexus) but nowhere near enough forefoot width.

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@SolarWind a lot of people report going to a shallower hollow on Scott Van Horne boots, as the more direct energy transfer makes for more direct edge application: the same hollow on a two piece skate tends to feel shallower than it does for the same skater in a one-piece.

How stiff are the tongues on the 100K? Tongue stiffness can have a surprisingly large influence on forward flex. If it’s too stiff in combination with the stiffness of the quarters for a particular skater’s feel preference it can get in the way just like using a 120 flex stick if you’re more geared toward 80.

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2 hours ago, Hills said:

I am going to go on a limb here and say the CCM probably have too much depth for you.

I found the 100K fit a bit odd, had almost too much depth and volume for me (someone who gets lace bite with everything but Tacks and Nexus) but nowhere near enough forefoot width.

there is probably 20% more volume/depth around the top 3 eyelets as compared to NXGs, and it does feel too much for me personally.

That's probably why pictures don't show how bad the situation is, since the ankle sits way back in the skate, and the tongue (which is thicker than the 3Flex tongue on NXGs) gives the false impression there is no volume issues. 

Around the foot the volume for regular fit seems on par with NXGs, but around the top 3 eyelets there is definitely considerably more volume.

forefoot is odd: it looks Giant on the outside, but probably due to extra padding everywhere it feels snug on the inside. Then there is also uneven lacing, NXGs were perfectly straight and 100Ks have some odd wave pattern to it flaring around 5th eyelet then getting very narrow up top.

2 hours ago, flip12 said:

How stiff are the tongues on the 100K? Tongue stiffness can have a surprisingly large influence on forward flex. If it’s too stiff in combination with the stiffness of the quarters for a particular skater’s feel preference it can get in the way just like using a 120 flex stick if you’re more geared toward 80.

CCM flex motion tongue is not stiff at all. On NXGs I've always staked with x-stiff insert (1mm thick Curve), and liked it much better than the 2 other ones included.

Curious - can the depth/volume issues up top be addressed with the custom fit? Is that what advanced facing is all about? (unless it's only meant to move eyelets forward to add more volume vs move them back & cut the quarters accordingly)

Edited by SolarWind

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You can deal with it with custom, yes.

 

I would say that the placing on your 100k looks off. The 5th and 4th eyelets from the top (the ones that look like they're flared out) should be the tightest, and the upper 3 eyelets could be flared out more. Looks like you're tying looser there and creasing to flex the boot

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1 hour ago, Miller55 said:

You can deal with it with custom, yes.

 

I would say that the placing on your 100k looks off. The 5th and 4th eyelets from the top (the ones that look like they're flared out) should be the tightest, and the upper 3 eyelets could be flared out more. Looks like you're tying looser there and creasing to flex the boot

When I tried on a Fit W 90K I noticed the 5th eyelet down was flaring like this and where most of the flex was happening. I didn't bake them but had that area tied tight and the result was similar to this photo. It had me concerned with the boot creasing there and reminded me of people who have too much skate depth.

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I'm really put off by the look of the 100Ks. They look like monstrous insects that have been smashed in a mold.

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1 hour ago, flip12 said:

I'm really put off by the look of the 100Ks. They look like monstrous insects that have been smashed in a mold.

"beauty is in the eye of the beholder". I personally feel they are a lot more conservatively looking skates compared with all these flashy red and yellow colors modern skates are painted with nowadays!

5 hours ago, PBH said:

I dont have any of these same issues. Guess I just have perfect feet 😉 

clearly you have trunks in place of your ankles 😉

here's what mine look from the side - the tongue is way back vs budging out like in your case:

https://ibb.co/tB6MwsB

and here's the view of the skate creasing when flexing:

https://ibb.co/s9STWm5

(not sure why it won't let me just insert images btw, I try to use 'insert image from URL' but it simply doesn't work)

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2 hours ago, flip12 said:

I'm really put off by the look of the 100Ks. They look like monstrous insects that have been smashed in a mold.

Compared to the FT4 or Bauer Hyperlites, the 100Ks are easily the best ‘traditional’ looking skate on the market

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If you right click the images and click "view image" you can just paste that link here and it shows up like so.

IMG-1113.jpg

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2 hours ago, Westside said:

Compared to the FT4 or Bauer Hyperlites, the 100Ks are easily the best ‘traditional’ looking skate on the market

My thoughts exactly!

if only I could get that silver writing in gun metal or grey (similar to gunmetal custom ultrasonics) it would have been even better!

BTW this is what the ankle looks after the skate. Notice the big gap between the tongue and the ankle, the skate is fully laced. 

https://ibb.co/y85WR4C

 

pasting the link somehow comes as link. I’m doing it on iPhone though so maybe that’s the difference 

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10 hours ago, Westside said:

Compared to the FT4 or Bauer Hyperlites, the 100Ks are easily the best ‘traditional’ looking skate on the market

Nah. Both True and Graf make more appealing traditional looking skates.

What puts me off the most is all of the rugged textures. It looks messy and clunky. Its appearance doesn’t impute agility or anything remotely related to speed.

Edited by flip12

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10 hours ago, SolarWind said:

and here's the view of the skate creasing when flexing:

9 hours ago, Hills said:

IMG-1113.jpg

Isn’t that just the forward flex that’s supposed to make these so agile? That kind of flex is what’s missing in today’s skates, the main issue I have with my MLX.

@PBH what does it look like when you flex your 100Ks?

Edited by flip12

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On 7/27/2021 at 3:18 PM, SolarWind said:

https://ibb.co/Twb9D3r - notice that 100Ks are a much deeper boot around the top 3 eyelets, the rest of the boot has the same depth as the Supremes. also notice the shape up top, even unlaced it's very pronounced C vs U. 

Thru eyelets 4, 5 and 6 you have more depth than the Supremes. To me it looks like the boot has way too much volume for you (ergo creasing). I'd be interested to see you doing a pencil test across the eyelets, my guess is you would have around 1cm of space, if this is the case the boot isn't right for your foot shape unless you intend to fill that space over the top of the foot with an ultra thick tongue or some inserts.

Edited by Vet88
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9 hours ago, Vet88 said:

Thru eyelets 4, 5 and 6 you have more depth than the Supremes. To me it looks like the boot has way too much volume for you (ergo creasing). I'd be interested to see you doing a pencil test across the eyelets, my guess is you would have around 1cm of space, if this is the case the boot isn't right for your foot shape unless you intend to fill that space over the top of the foot with an ultra thick tongue or some inserts.

Here we go:

https://ibb.co/brTm5sq
https://ibb.co/V9qBsyM
https://ibb.co/1sTLMF2
 

laced eyelet is #6 so surprisingly (since it didn’t feel too shallow on ice) I fail the test miserably below 3rd eyelet

then @ 3rd I pass

and about eyelets 1-2 I have about half an inch space so the cut the of boot doesn’t match the shape of my foot. 
In supremes I pass all across so the volume on 100k is distributed in a different way.

I have to report that things started to click after another hour on ice yesterday, I played with lacing, laced all the way up but loosely, and the skate started to respond very nicely. So there do appear to be quite significant performance benefits from the one boot piece and some extra flex in it. 

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On 7/27/2021 at 11:18 AM, Hills said:

 

 

2 hours ago, SolarWind said:

Here we go:

https://ibb.co/brTm5sq
https://ibb.co/V9qBsyM
https://ibb.co/1sTLMF2
 

laced eyelet is #6 so surprisingly (since it didn’t feel too shallow on ice) I fail the test miserably below 3rd eyelet

then @ 3rd I pass

and about eyelets 1-2 I have about half an inch space so the cut the of boot doesn’t match the shape of my foot. 
In supremes I pass all across so the volume on 100k is distributed in a different way.

I have to report that things started to click after another hour on ice yesterday, I played with lacing, laced all the way up but loosely, and the skate started to respond very nicely. So there do appear to be quite significant performance benefits from the one boot piece and some extra flex in it. 

Good to hear. They don't look horrible, just the top couple eyelets appear to be too deep, but it seems like the tongue should be sufficient to fill that up. If not, maybe you could have an extra piece of felt stitched into the back of the tongue only in that area.

I've never had this issue, but maybe others have some tried and true advice. To me it looks like you should be able to figure a workable solution is you otherwise are happy with the performance

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Mine arrived yesterday. Nice looking skate from top to bottom...Blacksteel is pretty hot. The overall fit was kinda meh. I kind of expected that out of the box. I went with a size 6, tapered, no surprise there. Length and depth appear to be good.

I took them in to get them baked today. They feel pretty dang good right now. Heel is really locked in place. Pretty good wrap and spacing post bake. The skates reacted well to the molding process. Feels like a different skate list bake. The tapered fit profile is very vapor-like. A bit more volume in the forefoot and a smaller heel.

The ankle padding is new. No more memory foam, bummer I know. Still a comfortable skate. The new tongue is a welcome upgrade as is the new tendon guard. 

So what happened to good supportive foot beds in high end skates? The ones in these are litterly laughable.

Can't wait to take them for a rip.

PXL_20210807_203119061.jpg

Edited by stick9
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First skate with the new wheels is in the book. Generally, I like to try new skates at public skating or stick time just to get a feel for them. I didn’t feel like waiting. I left my other skates at home so I couldn’t bail out.

I played in them for an hour and a half with just a few minor annoyances. The 100k’s have less forward pitch than my current 70k’s. So there was some adjustment there. Towards the end of the session my right ankle starting getting sore. I don’t know if it was the collar of the skate or just some muscles that had to work a little harder. Feels like the former not the latter. The overall fit seems to be good. I am considering going to the standard fit and adding the extra thick tongue to give me a little more space.

On the plus side. Edge work and transitioning in and out of turns was effortless…almost automatic in some regards. It was as if the skate knew where the brain was planning on going. I don’t know it’s the one piece boot, the XS holder, or both, but I like it. I like it a lot. 
 

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On 8/9/2021 at 12:50 PM, stick9 said:On the plus side. Edge work and transitioning in and out of turns was effortless…almost automatic in some regards. It was as if the skate knew where the brain was planning on going. I don’t know it’s the one piece boot, the XS holder, or both, but I like it. I like it a lot. 

This sounds very promising!

Obviously the correct fit is still the key, as with any other skate, and 100k have a particular fit profile that clearly didn’t work for me out of the box…

curious: what are the proper baking instructions? The box says 2 mins, but I wonder if it’s understated? Like Bauer skates state that too but baking them for 3 mins is a safe way to go (assuming the oven is already pre-heated which takes anywhere from 3 to 5 mins it seems).

also do folks still bake one skate at a time?

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any thoughts on the baking times/procedure for CCM skates? at some point (hopefully next couple of weeks) my customs will arrive and I want to bake them the right way.

one thing I've learned is that the top 2 eyelets should be laced lose if at all since the boot is so pliable and might close off too much if top eyelets are tied tight after baking.

 

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On 9/7/2021 at 3:38 PM, SolarWind said:

any thoughts on the baking times/procedure for CCM skates? at some point (hopefully next couple of weeks) my customs will arrive and I want to bake them the right way.

one thing I've learned is that the top 2 eyelets should be laced lose if at all since the boot is so pliable and might close off too much if top eyelets are tied tight after baking.

 

I took mine to a local shop. I didn't mind paying for it. It was way better than anything I would be able to do at home.

I didn't lace the top eyelet when I baked mine and I let the guy at the shop tighten and tie. I think it may be more of how they cut the boot. Looks to me like they purposefully added volume in that area.

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I didn’t mean to imply that I’m trying to bake $1600 skates at home 🙂

what I meant is they every shop seems to do it differently, but generally they just throw both skates in the oven for like 5-7 mins straight. 

In the past with Bauer skates I’m used to preheating the oven first for like 5 mins then putting 1 skate in, then 2 mins later put another one. 1 min later pull the 1st skate out, put it on, lace up. Takes about 1 min. Pull the 2nd one out, lace up. Sit for 10 mins then stand for another few. 
total bake time 3 mins, 1 skate as a time.

my question is - how is this process different for CCM skates aside of the bake time being 2 mins (it seems) instead of 3?

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I'm about ready to retire my 7+ year old Graf Ultra G75's and I am interested in the 100K's.  Can any of the skate guru's tell me if the 100k's are a similar skate boot profile to the G75?  I realize that fit is paramount to anything else, so if other suggestions can be made, please let me know.

Another question in case these fit me well......as a 6'4 230 lb skater, would these be too soft of a skate and break down too quickly?  

and am i seeing this correctly, the 100k's are coming with step steel but the AS3 Pro's do not?

Edited by noupf

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