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noupf

Pitch on CCM 100K, ST AS3 Pro's and Jet Speed FT4 Pro's

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Just curious if anybody knows what the forward pitch is like on the 100K's, Super Tacks AS3 Pro's and Jet Speed FT4 Pro's.

I am looking to get some new skates this year, and I am coming from Graf Ultra G75's.  From what I recall, the Grafs have a bit of forward pitch built into them, so when I have my new steel profiled, we had them set at a neutral pitch.   I'm just curious if anybody knows what the pitch is like on the CCM skates mentioned above.  I am just trying to get an educated starting point for when i get the steel profiled on the new skates.

 

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5 hours ago, noupf said:

Just curious if anybody knows what the forward pitch is like on the 100K's, Super Tacks AS3 Pro's and Jet Speed FT4 Pro's.

I am looking to get some new skates this year, and I am coming from Graf Ultra G75's.  From what I recall, the Grafs have a bit of forward pitch built into them, so when I have my new steel profiled, we had them set at a neutral pitch.   I'm just curious if anybody knows what the pitch is like on the CCM skates mentioned above.  I am just trying to get an educated starting point for when i get the steel profiled on the new skates.

 

I dont think any of the current CCM skates (100K/FT4 Pro/AS-V pro) have a difference in boot pitch since they are all built on an initially similar last with only the foams and shell composition being different.

The AS3 Pro might be different though. 

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Thanks @PBH.  I know you own a hockey shop and do sharpening and profiling.  Would you suggest that when I finally select a skate, assuming its a CCM, that I have the new blades profiled with the built in pitch than?  I am currently on an ellipse 1 profile with neutral pitch, as i read that my grafs had some pitch already built into the skate.

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20 minutes ago, noupf said:

Thanks @PBH.  I know you own a hockey shop and do sharpening and profiling.  Would you suggest that when I finally select a skate, assuming its a CCM, that I have the new blades profiled with the built in pitch than?  I am currently on an ellipse 1 profile with neutral pitch, as i read that my grafs had some pitch already built into the skate.

How do you like the Ellipse, as compared to the Quad? I tried one and I think I had similar experiences to other users here, in that I felt like a much smaller recommended size was in order. 

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36 minutes ago, pgeorgan said:

How do you like the Ellipse, as compared to the Quad? I tried one and I think I had similar experiences to other users here, in that I felt like a much smaller recommended size was in order. 

I've never tried the quad.  I went with the ellipse bc it made sense in my head to have one long continuous elliptical radius, with out the transitions zones of the 4 radius on a quad.  I'm on the border line between quad 2 and quad 1 ,  depending on who i asked.  It seems that quad 2 was recommended for my 288 size runners, but for the ellipse profiles, it was ellipse 1.  I was glad to see the ellipse 1 was recommended for the 288 as i didnt wanted a longer profile ( kind of like what you had mentioned about moving down one profile size ).  I'm 44 and a decent skater and this is my first time trying a profiled blade.  I will never go back and have never felt more stable on my skates. I love the profile, however i did keep catching my toe ever so slightly in that first month or so of skating when carrying the puck and doing crossovers.  I've since gotten used to it and have no issues now over the last 10+ months.   The only thing i feel like i may want is just a slight pitch forward to get on my toes a little more for acceleration ( which is why i started this thread about pitch on the new line of ccm skates ).  Other than that, they are great.  

Edited by noupf
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I went from Mako's on an ellipse with neutral pitch to ft4 pro customs with the ellipse at a 10 pitch instead of the 20 that I'm told is standard for the ellipse. The transition was effortless. I'm actually thinking of going to the standard (20) pitch.

 

 

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2 hours ago, pulax30 said:

I went from Mako's on an ellipse with neutral pitch to ft4 pro customs with the ellipse at a 10 pitch instead of the 20 that I'm told is standard for the ellipse. The transition was effortless. I'm actually thinking of going to the standard (20) pitch.

 

 

good to know, thanks.  this is what i was looking for.  I almost want to add a the 10 pitch like you said with my grafs to see if it helps me get on my toes just a little more.  That's about the only thing i feel is missing from my ellipse profile.  

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On 4/20/2022 at 9:39 AM, noupf said:

Thanks @PBH.  I know you own a hockey shop and do sharpening and profiling.  Would you suggest that when I finally select a skate, assuming its a CCM, that I have the new blades profiled with the built in pitch than?  I am currently on an ellipse 1 profile with neutral pitch, as i read that my grafs had some pitch already built into the skate.

I've got a similar question for @PBH, or anyone else that might be able to answer.

If you recall, I mentioned I switched to 100k Pros recently, coming from Hyperlites. On both I had/have a Quad.

I'm feeling a little more pitched forward on the CCM's vs the Bauers. Am I imagining that?

I'd like to get the balance point moved forward a bit on the default Quad profile relative to the CCM boot/XS holder, as I think this would better mimic the muscle memory I developed all these years skating in Vapor boots on a Tuuk holder. It feels a little more natural to me, and I want to stay in the Ribcor boot...

Do you have any recommendations? 

Based on my research, I think my profile has -17mm of forward pitch. And looking at the ProSharp template, I'm thinking I should start at -16mm. Would that be enough, or not enough? I don't know who made that video, but it's highly informative. 

Thanks.

Edited by pgeorgan

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20 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

I've got a similar question for @PBH, or anyone else that might be able to answer.

If you recall, I mentioned I switched to 100k Pros recently, coming from Hyperlites. On both I had/have a Quad.

I'm feeling a little more pitched forward on the CCM's vs the Bauers. Am I imagining that?

I'd like to get the balance point moved forward a bit on the default Quad profile relative to the CCM boot/XS holder, as I think this would better mimic the muscle memory I developed all these years skating in Vapor boots on a Tuuk holder. It feels a little more natural to me, and I want to stay in the Ribcor boot...

Do you have any recommendations? 

Based on my research, I think my profile has -17mm of forward pitch. And looking at the ProSharp template, I'm thinking I should start at -16mm. Would that be enough, or not enough? I don't know who made that video, but it's highly informative. 

Thanks.

I would wait until the boots and insoles are broken in. At least 20h playing hockey. If it's still necessary than go for a pitch correction. 

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5 hours ago, hockeydad3 said:

I would wait until the boots and insoles are broken in. At least 20h playing hockey. If it's still necessary than go for a pitch correction. 

Hmm. I've got about 10+ hours in them already.

I don't see the pitch moving to neutral, and can always revert the profile back. 

I was more curious if anyone else has had a similar experience. A lot of folks say modern Bauer and CCM holders are about the same in pitch, so perhaps its the boot. 

It's only slight, but it's enough I want to adjust it a millimeter or more. 

Let's just assume I have 20+ hours in them. Question still stands. 

Edited by pgeorgan

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On 5/2/2022 at 7:52 AM, pgeorgan said:

Hmm. I've got about 10+ hours in them already.

I don't see the pitch moving to neutral, and can always revert the profile back. 

I was more curious if anyone else has had a similar experience. A lot of folks say modern Bauer and CCM holders are about the same in pitch, so perhaps its the boot. 

It's only slight, but it's enough I want to adjust it a millimeter or more. 

Let's just assume I have 20+ hours in them. Question still stands. 

CCM XS holders have slightly more pitch, almost indiscernible. However, the CCM XS holder is significantly stiffer than Bauer LS Edge, which might be what you are feeling. Give it a little more time, and then if you feel too far forward, get the pivot point adjusted.

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On 5/8/2022 at 2:57 PM, PBH said:

CCM XS holders have slightly more pitch, almost indiscernible. However, the CCM XS holder is significantly stiffer than Bauer LS Edge, which might be what you are feeling. Give it a little more time, and then if you feel too far forward, get the pivot point adjusted.

So, I was having some issues with the left skate. In particular, I was developing an aggravated nerve over the ankle bone. 

I was previously using Bauer Speed Plate 2.0's in these. Turns out, the boot fitment did not respond well to that. 

I put the Ortholites back in, and also switched to wax laces. I was actually having to tie them too tight with the stock laces...

This combination solved both the fitment issue as well as my complaints of forward pitch. There still is a very slight forward pitch, so I agree with you on that, but not enough to where I need to mess with the profile. 

TL;DR don't stick Bauer Speed plates in these things, and ditch the stock laces.

Edited by pgeorgan

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Ugh. Right runner (Step Black) is already slightly bent. 

I'll let it ride for now, I guess, since the skates are still under the 90-day period. 

I doubt Step warranties steel against bends. 

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1 hour ago, pgeorgan said:

Ugh. Right runner (Step Black) is already slightly bent. 

I'll let it ride for now, I guess, since the skates are still under the 90-day period. 

I doubt Step warranties steel against bends. 

A bent runner can be straightened.  You need to figure out why it bent.  If it's from a holder mount, then have CCM replace the skates under warranty.  If for some strange reason they won't, then just use the 90 day guarantee and purchase a new replacement pair, (might just want to go that route anyway as you'd get a fresh warranty period).  CCM owns STEP now, so you'd be dealing with them on runner warranty anyway.

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16 hours ago, boo10 said:

A bent runner can be straightened.  You need to figure out why it bent.  If it's from a holder mount, then have CCM replace the skates under warranty.  If for some strange reason they won't, then just use the 90 day guarantee and purchase a new replacement pair, (might just want to go that route anyway as you'd get a fresh warranty period).  CCM owns STEP now, so you'd be dealing with them on runner warranty anyway.

I popped it out of the holder and it looks the same. I haven't taken any hard shots to the skates, that I can recall. There's certainly no structural damage to the area that would indicate such. 

But to your point, yes, since they are still under the CCM guarantee, I'm not going to make a big stink just yet. If my foot starts to wobble or something, then maybe I'll do something about it. 

I don't recall seeing them bent when they were new, but I suppose I didn't really look. My outgoing pair of Step is still straight and those took quite a beating in my Bauers. 

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10 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

I popped it out of the holder and it looks the same. I haven't taken any hard shots to the skates, that I can recall. There's certainly no structural damage to the area that would indicate such. 

It popped out of the holder? How?

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12 hours ago, PBH said:

It popped out of the holder? How?

lol no I "popped" it out to examine it. 

Skated on them last night since discovering the bend and I was fine. Will play it by ear. 

Edited by pgeorgan

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