Sk8Stk

Feel free to PM and we can have a remade pair put into production and i'll eat the cost on the out-of-warranty remake, exactly like I did last time. Rob instructed me to not do tracings, so I defaulted to his expertise. Tracings are often not as exact as the scanner and cause more problems than they solve, but as I said I can work with you. Please note things have changed significantly since VH and we have worked since 2017 to further refine the boot itself and possible adjustments after skates are made. Thanks.

apologies for any misunderstanding on my part. You would be surprised, I have had 3 or 4 clients who purchased skates but were still reluctant about everything throughout the entire process. I am not saying its commonplace, but these customers exist. I am not saying they hope it does not fit, but they are so skeptical in the new brand and myself that they think what I am saying about the boots could not possibly be true. These are the customers that often look to fabricate issues that arent there.

You are missing the point I am making. We are making the skates to the exact measurements of your foot. After doing that, an individual still has preferences in regard to comfort due to how the foot acts / moves in a skate. This is why the skates need to be baked, the bake dials in the fit of the boot to your preference even though the skate is made to your foot. I am in no way saying someone should pay $1000 for a skate that does not fit, I am saying that since you are spending $1000 on a pair of custom skates you have the ability to tweak and adjust the skates to your exact specification. This is a pro rather than a con, True is using some of the best materials on the market to allow for this exceptional fit and adjustment throughout the life of the boot. And once you make a few adjustments, they hold throughout the life of the skate. With any brand, if you arent willing to work with your representative when ordering a custom skate you need to reevaluate your attitude slightly. Major adjustments - yes, there is most likely something wrong with the fit. But small adjustments are to be expected.

Please elaborate on what you think i'm saying is incorrect. Also, everyone that has allowed me to adjust their skates further has been satisfied. There have been one or two customers that do not want to make adjustments (normally, these are customers who are against the brand from the starting point and want the skates to not fit when they arrive) and those are the only issues I have had. I spent a large portion of time with Rob last summer analyzing all of the aspects of your remade pair to ensure everything was made according to my specifications. You came in for the bake, and never reached out again, outside of on here. As I have said months ago to you on this forum, I am always available to work with clients to ensure the skates are made exactly to customer specifications. If there was an additional issue, let me solve it. One important note as well, "pro - fit" is not a box to be checked during the fitting to request that less materials be used for a tighter fit. They are simply taking the materials and removing excess negative space - at the beer league / recreational level, this is often not as comfortable. However, I can easily accomplish this fit by myself in store during a tightening appointment. Other shops may not have this capability, so this is a helpful bit of information to know, but it does not necessarily carry as much weight as what has been alluded to here. At the end of the day, you are open to your opinion, but the skates are custom made entirely to the skaters foot using Scott's patented lasting system. There will be information coming out in the next few weeks that will further reinforce this.

Would like to shut a few of these points down before people read them and run with them, because some are just not true at all. I won't touch your early logistics / customer service points because those are just opinion and speculation, but want to talk specifically about your remarks in regard to the employees at the factory. I work closely with Scott, amongst others, at the factory on a near daily basis and believe I can give a small amount of insight into the operation today. I can assure you that there are no "older employees" that exclusively work on elite level boots. The same people that are making your skates are making NHL boots - no separate workers at all. NHL players, in most instances, have had several pairs made for them in the past. As they have worn and adjusted these past pairs, all feedback is recorded in their file for future manufacturing reference. This information is used in the making of future skates for this player, so less adjustment is needed by the equipment manager / brand rep. No different in a retail skater ordering a second pair of boots a few years down the road - I always have to do less work the second time as True is so thorough with accomodation. In a first pair of skates I make for a retail skater, I may need to spend 15-20 additional minutes after the bake tweaking the boots to their liking - this is what they are designed to allow. This has nothing to do with how the boots are made / measured at the factory, but instead accommodating for personal preference and comfort - every skater is different in this area. I want to echo what another poster said where most people posting here online are not the ones that love their skates and could never use anything else, as most of those people do not seek out forums for feedback. Most posters here are the ones either skeptical or encountering issues. From my experience, 1 in 20 is not even close to the issues I have encountered, and I would be pretty surprised to hear if that has been the case for even newer, less experienced pro shops. In the last 400 pairs made, I have only sent back about 4, maybe 5. These were some more peculiar cases with very large or small skaters that required a bit more attention by the factory - all customers were completely pleased with the remade pairs. Please reach out if anyone has additional questions or is in search of skate support, but just wanted to chime in before incorrect facts start spreading. The factory is pushing out better quality products than I have ever seen before, so I can assure everyone that your file is not being neglected or disregarding specific details due to overall expansion.

Calibration fine tunes the scanner, it’s a really easy app that is developed by the manufacturer to dial everything in. It really isn’t difficult at all, you just open up the app and move some things around until the colors overlap. I don’t think it’s user error as much as dealers might not take the time to do it. I haven’t done tests on how scans before and after calibrations differ, but one point to make is that the calibrator wasn’t even put into my hands until 200-300 scans in, and those scans prior still came out great. A good boot fitter will know what a proper scan will look like, and won’t let you put your shoes back on until they are 100% satisfied. I can do it in one try after doing so many fittings daily, but I encourage newer fit centers to not shy away from telling customers “that wasn’t a good scan, let’s do it again”. It’s possible they either don’t know what was wrong or don’t want to seem inexperienced, but this is a crucial quality control step when a perfect boot is the only important outcome. True dealers were all sent brannocks months ago, which should always be used in orders. This reinforces information supplied to True, and can also alert the factory to any possible scanner issues before a pair is put into production.

Personally, I have not had any issues similar to that in the last year or so. And in the last 3 years I have only had maybe 5-6 experiences like this. All of which were solved with a remade pair. Keep in mind I have been doing this a long time and am very thorough during the initial fitting and ask tons of questions, and pass on ALL information to the factory. From my experience, the skates are coming out from a quality perspective better than they ever have before, and they are also fitting people better than ever. one thing I would like to add too, is that the skates did not come out nearly as well when we just did tracings and measurements. The fit of the skates improved dramatically once we switched to the scans, and I FaceTimed with True (VH at the time) during the introduction of the scanner and they showed me how accurate the software was compared to what we were using before. Please don’t underestimate the software we’re using just because some dealers may not be as thorough with the fitting as a whole. Expanding is always difficult, so I would encourage you to ask how many fittings your dealer has done before, and if the number is lower and you do not have any other options, try to involve yourself in the process as much as possible.

Wifi connectivity has no bearing on the quality of the scan. I have done numerous scans for Professional & Elite Level College & Junior players in rinks / locker rooms that had no wifi and uploaded as soon as I got back to the hotel. No issues at all. The only time internet access is needed is to upload the scans via email and create a profile online via True's portal. The scanner calibration app allows you to move the box being scanned relative to the actual subject. It takes some time, but ensures maximum precision of the object being scanned. This alongside communication with True in uploading of Test scans makes for a very thorough process, as long as you take the time to do so. This is more intricate than any motion capture protocol you might come up with since more human error is reduced. In my experience, as long as your lighting is not drastic, you will not have any issues. Obviously an area that is either too dimly or harshly lit will not allow the scanner to operate properly, but you will see that visibly on the screen because you will not be able to see the foot. Any neutral lit room with standard lighting will suffice. I have done fittings in store, at rinks, in hotel lobbies etc that all come out perfect.

The “never” in my comment was referring to 6 layers of foam coming in a skate, not that I am receiving skates that others are not. While it is not common, I have also received skates with similar issues. Normally, when a remade pair is done the problems are solved. Once they are not, that raises questions about the associate fitting the skate. Anyone with experience is going to be better equipped to solve problems than someone who has only been fitting custom skates for a short period of time, I don’t think that is a radical comment to make. I do not know any secrets, I am just diligent in my work and obtain as much information as possible from the customer. For Fit centers that do not do that, problems will most likely arise. Like any other skate on the market, there should be a competent boot fitter at the helm of orders. That goes for all brands. Not denying issues happen, that is why True offers a massive 6 month warranty. But when big fit issues arise like this, blame is often on more than one party.

“Serious issues” with the software is a bit vague, if you are not diligent with the fitting process or have not calibrated your scanner properly via the iPad app, it is very possible to get incorrect measurements. This is the exact same protocol for CCM custom skates, as they share software. As I said, I have not seen the skates and have not spoken to the factory about this pair, but that is never something I have come across when working with them. So it’s pretty obvious there was miscommunication of some type here. I can assure you True did not send him someone else’s skates, all of the skates are scanned with customers personal information to avoid just that. I am not saying that I can fix any skate in the world, I am saying that I frequently get sent customers that went to other Fit centers that received skates that were obviously fit improperly, and I handle the re-fitting myself and the second pair comes perfect.

Yep, very aware of all technology present in superfeet. I would say the posting is often more valuable than the arch support. We make our own custom orthotics for skating that incorporate everything you are describing. I was simply saying that if a customer did not want to add eva foam to a stock true insole to achieve more arch contact, superfeet can be adjusted to further address this issue at a significantly lower price point.

As other members have noted, I believe most of your issues to be a result of the Fit center and not the True factory. I have done over 400+ fittings for recreational and professional skaters alike and have had minimal issues, especially in the last 6 months. If you continue to have issues after this pair, please reach out via email to me at info@wsskate.com and send pictures of your skates so I can help to remedy any issues that other Fit centers might not be as experienced with.

I have been placing more orders than ever and production times are still speeding up. True has worked to better their infrastructure so that skates are coming out at a higher quality while also quicker turnaround. Their new factory was made to optimize growth and productivity, so now they are moving much more efficiently now.

EVA foam actually works very well and is what is used in many custom orthotics (obviously in combination with different thermoplastics as well) but if you are looking to mess around with after market orthotics, I would try superfeet or the older ccm models. These will fit you well out of the box, but I have also had a ton of success with heating the insoles topically to increase / decrease the arch as necessary. Takes a bit of practice but the results are really nice.

I would start with cutting out the arch portion of the red eva foam first, this will typically solve most arch pain issues. If you have done that and still have issues, you could sand / grind down the blue insole in the arch section to flatten that out. Once you have exhausted those options, I would heat up the arch area and use a boot punch to increase shaping in that area. You will definitely not have any problems after trying all above methods.

What part are you not buying? It is pretty easy to follow up and get the information that every skate is made from scratch. I work directly with Scott on almost a daily basis and after decades of working in the business, you are able to create a process that can be executed quickly and efficiently. The argument that no one can do this because it would take "months and cost would be astronomical" is not based in any facts. Also, it is very easy to explain that they do last longer. When you are dealing with premium thermoplastics and 6k Carbon fiber, they are obviously going to hold up better and break down slower than the polypropylene weaves other companies are using. I am not saying True skates are for everyone, but they are unparalleled in the industry in terms of craftsmanship. After seeing nearly 500 skates come through my door, you are able to understand the in-depth customization that is on display here.

This is an issue with the fit center, not anything in between. Odds are the fit center put something incorrect into the email that caused an error in True's automated system, or they scanned you improperly to start with.

The kinks weren’t really worked out until the last few weeks. All customers fitted by me in NYC the last two weeks have email tracking information, but everyone prior to that has just had traditional order info. I can’t speak for other fit centers, but I have been using the new program full time for the last two weeks.

I really like the new DEM system personally. I’ll agree it is a bit confusing at first, but once you get the hang of it, it’s probably a bit easier than what we had to do prior. I like the fact that if everything is done correctly, the scans automatically update in the customer’s order once emailed, so you get instant confirmation that everything has been received properly. I find that customers have been responding really well to being able to track their orders via email as well. I like keeping customers in the loop as much as possible, so this just adds a bit more polish and professionalism to the whole skate ordering process in my opinion.

Felt the need to intervene here as I was the one that primarily worked on this remade pair. I worked closely with Rob at the factory to tweak this new pair to ensure everything would be corrected properly. We were able to tighten the boot specifically in the areas where he was having problems with using the black wick liner per Rob's recommendation, so I opted to default to the expert in that case. Obviously looking at the pictures we need to work further on the boots to tighten up the lace-up overall. That being said, I have been working closely with Scott over the last few months to develop better methods to tighten skates, so if there are still any areas you are struggling with I would strongly recommend you reach out so we can make further adjustments. I have spent multiple, hour long sessions working on the original pair of boots but only got to work on this pair once or twice. I also want to stress the point that this is what I do professionally, so I am not going to "get sick" of solving problems for customers and am available nearly 24/7 for all of my clients. If you would like to make the trip back, I would be more than happy to work on this pair you are struggling with and attempt to solve your problems further. -Tyson @ WSS

Hi, Please reach out to Tyson. He is our Custom Skate Specialist and has handled all True/VH fittings dating back to 2015. Thanks!

masking tape is not used to hold anything together, it goes between the last and the skate during production and is then coated over. The skate is in no capacity held together by tape, and if you saw the manufacturing process you would understand. In regards to rivets, the specific instance you are quoting is referring to a customer who replaced holders multiple times, which in these instances it is pretty common to have to be a bit more precise with rivet length to ensure they do not come loose once multiple holes have been drilled / expanded in the boot. The actual shape of the carbon has been altered since Scott's 2013/14 version of the skates to provide better torsional resistance which virtually solved the rivet issue, and they also developed that insole layer a couple other fitters are referring to as an even bigger solution. I have had zero rivet issues in the last year in customers that kept their original holders and air out their skates properly, so I do not think it is fair to say True has not addressed the issues. Every time I receive a skate I see something that has been improved upon. I can not attest to the quality of other shops, but if improper rivet size is used I cant see how True is to blame for any of that. Bauer has gotten a free ride for years in terms of quality of the product they have put out vs what they are charging, if there is any skate currently on the market I would want to invest my money in, it is True. Also note, masking tape is used pretty commonly throughout the Bauer factory in Thailand, so I will echo the point that their is no need to overcomplicate things if it is not necessary / has zero influence on the manufacturing quality on the boot.

True is currently working out the kinks of this. As a dealer we have started getting notifications of rough skate production statuses (order received, part way through production, shipped, etc.) and I will pass this on to customers that want this information. Your dealer definitely should have followed up immediately after the order is placed to ensure everything is received properly, but True is normally exceptionally with customer service so I am sure they will take good care of you here.

StepVH Blacksteel is available directly from STEP, they're at a pretty hefty turnaround time currently though. Last 6 or so pairs I ordered took 5.5 Weeks.

Hi, I find the VH's are pretty neutral, more so like the stock bauer profile. Obviously what holder you have could adjust the overall pitch but the boot itself is flat. Most people coming out of a Graf or Mako with more significant forward pitch end up liking shims of either 3mm or 4mm in the heel to get you back up on to your toes. I put a 4mm polyethylene shim in my skates to get it how I like them. Hope that helps! Tyson