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guitarlp

Red Star Alloy's (red) vs Red Star E-Frame

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weight and materials is the only difference. One is aluminum, the other is magnesium alloy.

So the alloy is then the ligher chassis? The e-frame seems to have less material though. Is there a noticable difference between the two? Would it be worth trying to hunt down the alloy?

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magnesium alloy is lighter and stronger than aluminum, but there's probably not a huge difference. It will be lighter going with the alloy, but both have had real good reviews from people who have used them. As I've stated before, my personal favorites are the Labeda frames, and I have found a site for Labedacorp.com, but I'm not sure if you can order from them or how up to date their site is for it.

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Same thing.

Wrong....these frames are not the same thing...They are the same design in shape, but the alloy is defiantly lighter and a much stronger frame. I have used Red Star frames ever since they hit the market, and Ive found that the Alloy last much much longer....Dont get wrong the E-frames are a very good frame and will hold up and perform very well, but depending on how many times a week you skate and how hard you are on skates will determine how long the E-frames hold up...I have broken 2 sets of E-frames but thats after two good years of skating five times a week, and Im very hard on skates....I have had 2 sets of Alloys and have yet to dent a set, one set has lasted me 4 years and still good as when I got them...

It really just depends on what you wanna spend your money on..If your not going to skate alot and want to save a few bucks, Id shoot for the E-frame...You will defiantly get your moneys worth out of them....If you want to spend a few extra on the Alloys and skate alot Id go with them....Either way Id pick up a set because Red Star has and is in the process of phasing out all of its chasiss, there just isent a market for the after-market frames anymore because the ones that come on the high end skates are getting so good.

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I might have to argue on that point. I think the RedStar alloy may actually be one of the finest frames ever made. If i wasn't in love with the Tour 80mm setup, i'd be using them to this day.

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I might have to argue on that point. I think the RedStar alloy may actually be one of the finest frames ever made. If i wasn't in love with the Tour 80mm setup, i'd be using them to this day.

I agree with you. the red star alloys are some of the best, if not the best, out there.

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Mission and Labeda Hi-Lo chassis are better anyways... you just can't buy them seperately.

I'm pretty sure you can buy Labedas frames from Labeda directly via a pro shop who has an account with them, although the Labeda rep on here should probably verify this.

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I might have to argue on that point.  I think the RedStar alloy may actually be one of the finest frames ever made.  If i wasn't in love with the Tour 80mm setup, i'd be using them to this day.

I agree with you. the red star alloys are some of the best, if not the best, out there.

Any other reason besides PP?

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I might have to argue on that point.  I think the RedStar alloy may actually be one of the finest frames ever made.  If i wasn't in love with the Tour 80mm setup, i'd be using them to this day.

I agree with you. the red star alloys are some of the best, if not the best, out there.

Any other reason besides PP?

The Red Stars are the only magnesium alloy frame available as a seperate item instead as part of a skate. The only other two being used are the Mission MG available only on their top end skate and the CCM Tri-Di available on their top end skate. Most people aren't that fond of the Tri-Di setup to begin with, and Mission doesn't sell theirs individually either so you have to love Mission skates enough to drop 400-500 for that feature if it's really that big of a selling point for you. Magnesium alloy is significantly lighter and stronger, so it can be a huge difference.

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Well that's my point. Mission's MG chassis is the best (except for the logos which scratch off), so there would be a huge market for it as an individual product.

I don't know that I'd say any one of them is strictly better than the other, again that comes down to personal preference. Mission probably could make some money off of them as an individual product, but then that weakens their market for their own top of the line skate. Red Star never made the whole skate, so they had nothing to lose off of the frame itself.

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I don't think people are only interested in the chassis on the top of the line Mission skate. A minority of players prefer a custom ice conversion, but it would still generate some profit.

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that's why I said if it's a selling point for someone, that's the only way to get it. Weight has been an incredible marketing point for every company it seems over the last couple years. The mag alloy frames are lighter, making them a selling point. It might be different if they were more widely used throughout various company line ups. The real high end marquee skates that use the mag alloy are not the big sellers for these companies, so why breed any competition with yourself if you don't need to?

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Well we don't have access to sales numbers, but I don't think you understand the mechanics of my argument here. People that buy chassis are making a custom skate. That is a small market. Therefore a small number of people will buy the seperate chassis. Profit is still made, and another market is tapped. I am guessing that these sales (and subsequent profit) will be much higher than custom skate buyers buying complete Mission skates and mixing parts.

Additionally, as Justin can explain to you, the "exclusive" chassis on the skate is not the only selling point they have on this year's model. Many upgrades have been made to the boot, wheels, etc. With all those draws and the small custom market, it would be a successful profit seeing that a few hundred more could be fabricated in the orient for a negligible or even a pro-rated bulk discount cost.

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Well we don't have access to sales numbers, but I don't think you understand the mechanics of my argument here. People that buy chassis are making a custom skate. That is a small market. Therefore a small number of people will buy the seperate chassis. Profit is still made, and another market is tapped. I am guessing that these sales (and subsequent profit) will be much higher than custom skate buyers buying complete Mission skates and mixing parts.

Additionally, as Justin can explain to you, the "exclusive" chassis on the skate is not the only selling point they have on this year's model. Many upgrades have been made to the boot, wheels, etc. With all those draws and the small custom market, it would be a successful profit seeing that a few hundred more could be fabricated in the orient for a negligible or even a pro-rated bulk discount cost.

While I fundamentally agree that there probably is a market for selling just he chassis...the problem now, is that the entire line of skates, boot and chassis, is made and assembled in one plant in China (let's not turn this into a China vs USA/Canada discussin). The point is, it is more economical to create the entire, assembled skate and ship it over thant to ship it in parts and assemble it here. To change the manufacturing process and create just he alloy chassis probably wouldn't account for a large enough sales number. That's why they have decided not to do it.

I don't think its a matter of competing with yourself, i just don't thin the economics are there. Hell, if they were, Redstar would still be around, patent or no patent.

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I am not disagreeing that the chassis is not the only selling point for the sane, but how many people are constantly obsessed with having the lightest skates? It does become self-competing work because people can now not purchase the whole top skate for whatever reason and just purchase the chassis. The profit is lessened here, and the top of the line skate is not a mass selling item for any of the companies to begin with. Then there is the issue of convenience in manufacturing is kind of moot, it's more of a cost to manufacture and balancing of the sales numbers. I see tons of custom skates around so I don't think it's as small a market as you'd think.

EDIT: Come to think of it, it might be a good sale/marketing move if Mission did a send in program like Tour is doing with the Hummer, but again it may affect sales of the 10K skate since the people who have to have the lightest setup can take a boot like the Bauer XXX or Easton's top of the line ice boot and use that instead of going with Mission's own setup. It always comes down to who is buying for a setup that actually works, and who is just wanting the latest/greatest thing.

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Dave I completely agree, but how about taking it a step further....think of it as like a cafeteria of special order skates....i.e. you pick which boot, chassis, bearings, and wheels you want your personal skates to have, and then for a small mark up mission will put these skates together, and based off of all the different components you picked that determines the price of the skates.

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Dave I completely agree, but how about taking it a step further....think of it as like a cafeteria of special order skates....i.e. you pick which boot, chassis, bearings, and wheels you want your personal skates to have, and then for a small mark up mission will put these skates together, and based off of all the different components you picked that determines the price of the skates.

I was thinking of that too. It's now $40+ to mount a chassis in a shop. Mission could definitely cut into that cost with all of its manufacturing resources in place and make a profit that way.

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Dave I completely agree, but how about taking it a step further....think of it as like a cafeteria of special order skates....i.e. you pick which boot, chassis, bearings, and wheels you want your personal skates to have, and then for a small mark up mission will put these skates together, and based off of all the different components you picked that determines the price of the skates.

I was thinking of that too. It's now $40+ to mount a chassis in a shop. Mission could definitely cut into that cost with all of its manufacturing resources in place and make a profit that way.

If your paying $40 or more to get a frame mounted, your getting ripped...There are only two legit shops in my entire state that mounts frames, they do an outstanding job and still keep it $30 or below....

The idea about being able to "build your own" skates sounds pretty cool....It kinda reminds me of back in my skateboarding days when you could custom order a board with any wheels, boards, etc...all the way to the grip tape...Cool idea, but I think it would be a tough thing to actully get going....

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