Leg length discrepency (Important read for back pain)

[BGM 0]

You are laying flat on your back--just drop the leg with the imbalance a little off the bed and press inward against the bed. There are other exercises as well--I would go see a PT.

[sds 0]

you never said which edges you had problems with.

I did the lie down test and it looks like my left leg is shorter and not my right. I'm a fairly new skater who has progressed quickly. However, my right outside edge is useless. I can't use it during stops and it barely touches the ice during turns.

I have no problems with my left outside edge.

So, which edges do you have problems with and which foot received the lift?

[djinferno 2]

you never said which edges you had problems with.

I did the lie down test and it looks like my left leg is shorter and not my right. I'm a fairly new skater who has progressed quickly. However, my right outside edge is useless. I can't use it during stops and it barely touches the ice during turns.

I have no problems with my left outside edge.

So, which edges do you have problems with and which foot received the lift?

dude I'm not the guy that found this theory, all i can tell you is, if one foot pronates, thats most likely your longer leg, look around the skates.com website, he has tips on how do diagnose

http://www.postureflex.com/test.htm

[sds 0]

you never said which edges you had problems with.

I did the lie down test and it looks like my left leg is shorter and not my right. I'm a fairly new skater who has progressed quickly. However, my right outside edge is useless. I can't use it during stops and it barely touches the ice during turns.

I have no problems with my left outside edge.

So, which edges do you have problems with and which foot received the lift?

dude I'm not the guy that found this theory, all i can tell you is, if one foot pronates, thats most likely your longer leg, look around the skates.com website, he has tips on how do diagnose

I'm not asking you to explain anything about the theory - just what your experience was with your legs. You never said right or left in your post.

[djinferno 2]

you never said which edges you had problems with.

I did the lie down test and it looks like my left leg is shorter and not my right. I'm a fairly new skater who has progressed quickly. However, my right outside edge is useless. I can't use it during stops and it barely touches the ice during turns.

I have no problems with my left outside edge.

So, which edges do you have problems with and which foot received the lift?

dude I'm not the guy that found this theory, all i can tell you is, if one foot pronates, thats most likely your longer leg, look around the skates.com website, he has tips on how do diagnose

I'm not asking you to explain anything about the theory - just what your experience was with your legs. You never said right or left in your post.

for me the left is longer, thats the one i was having problems with, i put the lift under my right and if felt level..., i also tried these and most worked

http://www.postureflex.com/test.htm

Also, after my injury, I noticed the problem when i sit down or drive a car, I get headaches driving, I was ignoring all of it because I never tought my pelvic could be out of wack

I say for test try both but you should go see a professional and get it measured...

[sds 0]

for me the left is longer, thats the one i was having problems with, i put the lift under my right and if felt level..., i also tried these and most worked

http://www.postureflex.com/test.htm

I say for test try both but you should go see a professional and get it measured...

Interestingly, the theory states that teh right should be shorter, but it appears I am a gentic marvel because my left leg looks a shorter in test 1 and my left shoulder is higher in test 2. I have problems with my right skate...

So, I'm completely opposite of you. Now, I wonder where to go to get a real diagnosis...

[djinferno 2]

for me the left is longer, thats the one i was having problems with, i put the lift under my right and if felt level..., i also tried these and most worked

http://www.postureflex.com/test.htm

I say for test try both but you should go see a professional and get it measured...

Interestingly, the theory states that teh right should be shorter, but it appears I am a gentic marvel because my left leg looks a shorter in test 1 and my left shoulder is higher in test 2. I have problems with my right skate...

So, I'm completely opposite of you. Now, I wonder where to go to get a real diagnosis...

chiropractor could be one, PT, family doctor...

The theory goes on the fact that 90% of people are right handed so it is posible to be the opposite, the guy just gave the exemple for the masses...

[djinferno 2]

Hey, allot of people have been asking me questions wich tells me that many have similar experiences then I do, it's conforting yet concerning at the same time...

Here are some answers to repeat questions....

About diagnocis, I would seek profetional help, from someone who will look at your biomecanics, the guy I saw was not the firt, he was like the fourth person I saw, If you have a pro or Junior team in your area, I would go see the people those players see... In my case, that was the only person who saw that my problem was coming from my pelvic, he mesured my leg bones and they where the same, but when he did pelvic to ankle, he found discrepencies... It's dot always STRUCTURAL leg length (Length of your legs..) it can be FUNCTIONAL (The way your legs fonction as result of your body curve...)

As for what I felt on the ice, 1 foot was strait and the other, the blade felt loaded on the outside of my foot so my ankle was rolling inward, He told me to lift the leg that was feeling strait and the other leg felt strait too (Well more centered to be correct)...

As for what I did, my LHS had plastic pieces that they used to shim, I asked them to make 1/8" front and back for me but I did not put them in permanentely yet, what I did was found a non compressing material that had a 1/8" thickness and put it under my insole in my skates and did the same for my shoes for testing purposes... The material I got ended up costing me 25$ so I would say to you to just try to order it already cut and ready from

http://www.skates.com/SearchResults.asp?Ca...amp;Click=43381

I also saw stuff that seems to work like my LHS has at

http://eastwesthockey.net/heweri.html

I'm not a doctor and I'm not a pro at this, I'm only posting to help because I know first hand how frustrating this problem is, I like hockey so much that being like this made me cry out of dispare (I'm being honest) I would recomend to test this out in a non game situation to see how you feel, give your body the time to feel and see how your edges feel...

For those in the Ottawa reagion, the guy I saw is

Sean Murray,

Certified Pedorthist

(613)737-4742

I hope I'm helping!

[AnthonyJTa 0]

http://www.skates.com/SearchResults.asp?Ca...amp;Click=43381

the only downside to putting these underneath an insole, is that you'll lose some room in your skates. I tried this, and then my fat foot didn't fit properly. Shimming between the holder/boot fixes the length discrepency, and doesn't skimp on space in the boot.

[tlminh 0]

Okay guys, I am a physician (family practice) and in my practice I use osteopathic manipulation. What is osteopathic manipulation? Well, there are 2 forms of physicians in the USA. MDs and DOs. DOs are the same as MDs except we get additional training in OMT (manipulation).

The reason I bring it up is because a lot of OMT we study have to do with the pelvis, sacrum and legs. While I have not examined you or know of your past medical history, I think it may be benificial to look in the yellow pages, find a DO doctor and ask them if they practice OMT. Some docs do it all the time, some docs dont. Just find a good doc who practices OMT regularly and they should be able to help with your ailments. PM me if you have any other q's

PS, we measure leg length differences between the ankles, but when a doc does that, make sure he's doing it properly. Lie down on your back and bend your knees up keeping your feet planted. Then raise your hips and drop them, then straighten out your legs. This method helps reset your legs and allow us to see how bad your legs are.

The physical exam should also include sacrum measurements and pelvic measurements as well as looking at the entire spine.

Well, I really wish you could go see a DO, we LOVE to treat this stuff!! (and a lot of DO's are in Primary Care too, that way they can fix your back and write you prescriptions or even refer you to Physical therapy)

[djinferno 2]

Okay guys, I am a physician (family practice) and in my practice I use osteopathic manipulation. What is osteopathic manipulation? Well, there are 2 forms of physicians in the USA. MDs and DOs. DOs are the same as MDs except we get additional training in OMT (manipulation).

The reason I bring it up is because a lot of OMT we study have to do with the pelvis, sacrum and legs. While I have not examined you or know of your past medical history, I think it may be benificial to look in the yellow pages, find a DO doctor and ask them if they practice OMT. Some docs do it all the time, some docs dont. Just find a good doc who practices OMT regularly and they should be able to help with your ailments. PM me if you have any other q's

Wow, I have 3 questions that could be beneficial to everyone...

1- Can a pelvic tilt be fixed? and How?

2- Is rising one leg to walk or skate damaging in any way (I'm asking because I would not want to tell guys to try something that could hurt them or be counter productive)

3- How would you approach this problem?

thank you..

PS, we measure leg length differences between the ankles, but when a doc does that, make sure he's doing it properly. Lie down on your back and bend your knees up keeping your feet planted. Then raise your hips and drop them, then straighten out your legs. This method helps reset your legs and allow us to see how bad your legs are.

The physical exam should also include sacrum measurements and pelvic measurements as well as looking at the entire spine.

Yep thats exactly what the guy did before taking mesurements...

[tlminh 0]

1- Can a pelvic tilt be fixed? and How?

It depends on what causes the pelvic tilt, if you have a SKELETAL abnormality (either congenital such as scoliosis or from injury where you needed a diskectomy or a hip replacement) it may be "corrected" with a brace or lift(not fixed).

However, most pelvic tilts are caused by chronic muscle changes. Changes come from prolonged stress on muscles. For example, a 300lb person will have more backache than a 150lb person because there is more stress along the joints. In your case, your original injury may have caused you to go 8 months "favoring" one side over the other; the body then compensates to keep your center of gravity. This prolonged compesation may lead to (big words now) your somatic dysfucntion (your pelvic tilt). This occurs A LOT after someone has been in a car accident (hence many visits to chiropractor).

How to fix: OMT and physical therapy aimed to treat your discrepancies. If it does not help, then I'd order an X-ray to look at your femoral head. If there is a large difference, I'd send you to a sports medicine specialist who may be able to get heel lifts for ice skating or walking.

2- Is rising one leg to walk or skate damaging in any way (I'm asking because I would not want to tell guys to try something that could hurt them or be counter productive)

It shouldnt cause any acute problems, but it may exacerbate your chronic ailments. If you mean adding a heel lift, it shouldnt cause any problems, in fact, it can help. However, it is merely "correcting" the problem and not "fixing" it.

3- How would you approach this problem?

I'd get a thorough history and physical. I'd then look at your hips, sacrum and leg length. If everything is ok and you dont have any contraindications, I'd use OMT to help get your pelvis back into original alignment (techniques include muscle energy, HVLA, etc).

hope this helps, thank goodness I have a day off to type this stuff! (maybe I should go into teaching)

Oh, and to add, what I typed above is for information only. You should see a doc in real life if you want treatment :)

[djinferno 2]

1- Can a pelvic tilt be fixed? and How?

It depends on what causes the pelvic tilt, if you have a SKELETAL abnormality (either congenital such as scoliosis or from injury where you needed a diskectomy or a hip replacement) it may be "corrected" with a brace or lift(not fixed).

However, most pelvic tilts are caused by chronic muscle changes. Changes come from prolonged stress on muscles. For example, a 300lb person will have more backache than a 150lb person because there is more stress along the joints. In your case, your original injury may have caused you to go 8 months "favoring" one side over the other; the body then compensates to keep your center of gravity. This prolonged compesation may lead to (big words now) your somatic dysfucntion (your pelvic tilt). This occurs A LOT after someone has been in a car accident (hence many visits to chiropractor).

How to fix: OMT and physical therapy aimed to treat your discrepancies. If it does not help, then I'd order an X-ray to look at your femoral head. If there is a large difference, I'd send you to a sports medicine specialist who may be able to get heel lifts for ice skating or walking.

2- Is rising one leg to walk or skate damaging in any way (I'm asking because I would not want to tell guys to try something that could hurt them or be counter productive)

It shouldnt cause any acute problems, but it may exacerbate your chronic ailments. If you mean adding a heel lift, it shouldnt cause any problems, in fact, it can help. However, it is merely "correcting" the problem and not "fixing" it.

3- How would you approach this problem?

I'd get a thorough history and physical. I'd then look at your hips, sacrum and leg length. If everything is ok and you dont have any contraindications, I'd use OMT to help get your pelvis back into original alignment (techniques include muscle energy, HVLA, etc).

hope this helps, thank goodness I have a day off to type this stuff! (maybe I should go into teaching)

Oh, and to add, what I typed above is for information only. You should see a doc in real life if you want treatment :)

wow, thank you for the detalled info, so you don't recomend lifting one leg with a full insole, just heels? would that not be the same???

also where can i see you, you seem to know what your talking about

[djinferno 2]

Update

Yesterday was my third skate with the 1/8" lift in 1 skate, I must say, it gets better with every skate, the foot that was pronating feels better, way better.... I was playing a scrimage with way better players, way faster pace so I was nervous about it but it was surprisingly good, no weird loss of balence in the corners or dragging the puck, I was able to push off with both feet, turning on both sides, pivoting...

I'm having a little issue with beating guys one on one, but I was never great at it so I guess I can't expect miracles :D The biggest change has been no back pain, like zero, nada, ziltch... I was looking for a hint of it but nothing... The only negative I found is my slapshot seems to be akward and one timers are coming off my stick funny, mind you my wrist shot is rocketing off my stick and my passes have better zip...

I also walk all day like this and it feels better too, I think I'm going to keep skating like this during the sumer and see if I need to keep the configuration before I buy new skates, most likely between blade and boot instead...

If anyone else tried this, If you be cool if you shared your experience

[tlminh 0]

wow, thank you for the detalled info, so you don't recomend lifting one leg with a full insole, just heels? would that not be the same???

also where can i see you, you seem to know what your talking about

I think a heel lift or full insole should be pretty equal, you are correct in starting at 1/8" You MAY need another 1/8" after the initial 2 weeks, but I recc getting re-evaluated 1st.

I'd love to see you as one of my patients, but unless your US Active Duty military, I'm technically not allowed to treat you. I'm a military family doc near st louis. I think the guy you saw from the team gave you excellent advice, is he an orthopeadic surgeon or sports medicine specialist?

[djinferno 2]

wow, thank you for the detalled info, so you don't recomend lifting one leg with a full insole, just heels? would that not be the same???

also where can i see you, you seem to know what your talking about

I think a heel lift or full insole should be pretty equal, you are correct in starting at 1/8" You MAY need another 1/8" after the initial 2 weeks, but I recc getting re-evaluated 1st.

I'd love to see you as one of my patients, but unless your US Active Duty military, I'm technically not allowed to treat you. I'm a military family doc near st louis. I think the guy you saw from the team gave you excellent advice, is he an orthopeadic surgeon or sports medicine specialist?

Yeah, hes a sports medicine specialist, he told me to to the 1/8" for 2 weeks then he is going to take a look at me again, i'm so happy to have found this info, after getting orthotics done twice, i was starting to lose hope, guys like you and the guy helping me locally make the world a better place just by sharing your knowledge...

[badsk8ter 0]

Just curious djinferno, are you by chance flat-footed or somewhat flat-footed?

[djinferno 2]

Just curious djinferno, are you by chance flat-footed or somewhat flat-footed?

somewhat flat-footed...

[badsk8ter 0]

I figured as much. By not having any (or much) arch support in your feet, it just causes the pronation to fall that much further inward. If you take your hands and set them on a table, palms down, that's what my feet look like without shoes. After reading your thread, I looked at myself in a full length mirror at my company's workout facility and I have the exact same issue with my left leg. Which explains everything about my athletic career from basketball, volleyball, golf, snow-skiing and now hockey (skating). I am going to order one of the 1/8 lifts to be put in the sole of my right shoe and I'm going to have my skate shimmed up 1/8, too and see if it makes any difference. Thank you and also tlminh for all of the informative information.

[djinferno 2]

I figured as much. By not having any (or much) arch support in your feet, it just causes the pronation to fall that much further inward. If you take your hands and set them on a table, palms down, that's what my feet look like without shoes. After reading your thread, I looked at myself in a full length mirror at my company's workout facility and I have the exact same issue with my left leg. Which explains everything about my athletic career from basketball, volleyball, golf, snow-skiing and now hockey (skating). I am going to order one of the 1/8 lifts to be put in the sole of my right shoe and I'm going to have my skate shimmed up 1/8, too and see if it makes any difference. Thank you and also tlminh for all of the informative information.

I'm sort of the same, not much more arch...

Glad I could help, thats why I wanted to post, let me know how the test goes...

[opus22 0]

i am having a lot of problems with this. i am pretty typical in that might right leg is shorter, and my right shoulder is lower. i alwasy have back paion, but just play through it. i dont have a lot of money right now, and i dont even have insurance so i cant go to pt. a chiropractor gave me a great rate for awhile, and i think it overall loosened me up and helped, but i dont think it made the disconmfort in my hip go away. my hip makes clicking noises sometimes, and in the last year ive really starter getting odd muscle pulls between my groin and my hipbone - not normal groin pulls....almost abdominal pulls. it all feels related. its really affected my skating in every way possible, and im starting a downward spiral out of hockey. it sucks, i know im getting older and i expect to drop off - but its been too much too fast. maybe an insert will help, but it wont fix whats internally wrong. im pretty frustrated.

[AnthonyJTa 0]

If anyone else tried this, If you be cool if you shared your experience

I'm thinking of trying 1/8" on the right, for sh*ts and giggles. While I still need to get myself fixed, I'm curious if the lift would make a significant difference. I've had knee, and a really bad ingrown toenail in the past, which lead to me favoring my right side.... probably throwing my body off.

[fatwabbit 93]

I've had 2 operations on my left knee for torn ACL, and had a strained MCL in the left knee as well. I guess that could be the reason why I favored my right side.

I've ordered the insoles from skate.com. Hopefully it turns up soon and helps out with these bloody back pains. It doesnt help that my wife weighs only 39kg, and can really give a solid back massage

[djinferno 2]

whoa, Doan seems to only have lifts under 1 foot

http://images.sportsline.com/u/ap/photos/X...12_1024x768.jpg

[Overtime 0]

MY pelvic is uneven do to my uneven leg leangths