Help the Newbie

[TheWay 0]

Hello everyone,

I want to introduce myself and see if you guys could give me some feedback as to whether my gear is Ok or garbage.

I am a Calgarian guy in my mid-twenties who led a slightly deprived childhood that lacked any organized hockey.

Recently, I've tried to rectify this by helping out flooding my neighborhood rink and playing as much shinny as I could manage.

During the last really good night of skating this year I spotted some pads in the sportsplex and so strapped them on. I had proper (34”) pads, a good chest/arm protector(at least one size too small) proper gloves and stick plus player pants, player skates, a regular cup and a road hockey helmet.

I survived the game with no major damage, we had no lines and 20+ guys and kids out there that night so no one took any shots from more than about six feet out, a fact that also made me let in at least half of what was shot at me. I had a blast and decided to acquire a set of gear for next winter.

I want you guys to let me know if the stuff is any good. Just for reference I'm 6'1”, 240lb, most of it in my legs from too much rugby.

The gear is not meant for competitive play, for now it's pond hockey only but I may head to a beer league if I feel inspired.

Pads: Koho 580 Pro Series. 130$

I bought these from a guy on eBay who was trying to get them out of his garage to make space. They look and feel great from what I can gather from my linoleum floor. A couple straps are missing and some of the stitching has come undone but those are both issues I can easily repair (working at a fabric shop has it's perks). Does anyone know of a place I can get new straps in Calgary?

Blocker: Louisville TPS Icecap(?). 20$

Bought from the same guy as the pads. I love this thing, the palm is in one piece and the blocker makes a pleasing noise when hit by street hockey balls.

Glove: Brian's Altra, 40$

I bought this from a used equipment store. The materials are all solid though the grommets and fabric along the finger edge are as ratty as can be. I've already re-laced the glove back together and plan on taking this thing apart and rebuilding the frayed edges and replacing the grommets.

Some other stuff: $160

Mission M2 Pants

Koho 470 C/A Protector

Mystery ITECH Mask

I bought all of this stuff from a guy who got new equipment. The pants were in need of serious repair, which is done. The C/A protector is wonderful and the mask works well, though I still have no idea about the quality of the thing.

Everything Else $160 (Bought new from Goaliemonkey)

Vaughn Pro Goal Jock, 7​?50(not sure about the number)

Vaughn clavicle guard and collar

Lexan Dangler (not sure what brand)

Jersey

I decided that some of this stuff I either couldn't buy used or didn't want to buy used. This stuff hasn't arrived yet so I still don't know what it will be like.

What do you guys think? I still need a stick and skates(that fit) but I have a few months before the cold sets in again.

TheWay

[Axxion89 32]

Hello everyone,

I want to introduce myself and see if you guys could give me some feedback as to whether my gear is Ok or garbage.

I am a Calgarian guy in my mid-twenties who led a slightly deprived childhood that lacked any organized hockey.

Recently, I've tried to rectify this by helping out flooding my neighborhood rink and playing as much shinny as I could manage.

During the last really good night of skating this year I spotted some pads in the sportsplex and so strapped them on. I had proper (34”) pads, a good chest/arm protector(at least one size too small) proper gloves and stick plus player pants, player skates, a regular cup and a road hockey helmet.

I survived the game with no major damage, we had no lines and 20+ guys and kids out there that night so no one took any shots from more than about six feet out, a fact that also made me let in at least half of what was shot at me. I had a blast and decided to acquire a set of gear for next winter.

I want you guys to let me know if the stuff is any good. Just for reference I'm 6'1”, 240lb, most of it in my legs from too much rugby.

The gear is not meant for competitive play, for now it's pond hockey only but I may head to a beer league if I feel inspired.

Pads: Koho 580 Pro Series. 130$

I bought these from a guy on eBay who was trying to get them out of his garage to make space. They look and feel great from what I can gather from my linoleum floor. A couple straps are missing and some of the stitching has come undone but those are both issues I can easily repair (working at a fabric shop has it's perks). Does anyone know of a place I can get new straps in Calgary?

Blocker: Louisville TPS Icecap(?). 20$

Bought from the same guy as the pads. I love this thing, the palm is in one piece and the blocker makes a pleasing noise when hit by street hockey balls.

Glove: Brian's Altra, 40$

I bought this from a used equipment store. The materials are all solid though the grommets and fabric along the finger edge are as ratty as can be. I've already re-laced the glove back together and plan on taking this thing apart and rebuilding the frayed edges and replacing the grommets.

Some other stuff: $160

Mission M2 Pants

Koho 470 C/A Protector

Mystery ITECH Mask

I bought all of this stuff from a guy who got new equipment. The pants were in need of serious repair, which is done. The C/A protector is wonderful and the mask works well, though I still have no idea about the quality of the thing.

Everything Else $160 (Bought new from Goaliemonkey)

Vaughn Pro Goal Jock, 7​?50(not sure about the number)

Vaughn clavicle guard and collar

Lexan Dangler (not sure what brand)

Jersey

I decided that some of this stuff I either couldn't buy used or didn't want to buy used. This stuff hasn't arrived yet so I still don't know what it will be like.

What do you guys think? I still need a stick and skates(that fit) but I have a few months before the cold sets in again.

TheWay

Welcome aboard, I will answer what I can!

1- That mask seems to be an Itech 1000 AKA Widowmaker. I would not play in any ice league with that and as far as pond hockey goes, so long as they keep the puck low you should be ok. Ball hockey you will be fine. I suggest searching eBay, Craigslist, and Kiji for a decent mask (Hackva, Sportsmask, Itech 4000, Pro-masque) made of fiberglass for protection.

2- The gear all looks good to me for ice except maybe the catcher only if the palm is beat to death. You don't want to feel too many pucks hit your hand and if the palm is broken down, its going to hurt.

Some more knowledgable board members can give you more details but other than the mask, you could take to the ice safely and have fun.

[Law Goalie 147]

First off, welcome to MSH, and to the best position on the ice!

Let me second Axxion's recommendation to find a better mask. That one is little better than a salad bowl, unfortunately, and it also appears to be missing the chin-cup. There are three ways you can be killed as a goalie: a puck to the head, a skate or a puck to the neck, and a puck to the chest that stops your heart. These are three areas where spending money will save your life more often than you might realise.

Ax has also given you a very good start in finding quality used masks; any of the ones he suggested can be found in the $100-$200 range in good used condition, and $350-$450 at retail. To this I would add my own major recommendation, which does rely on you having 2-3 weeks to spare: a custom-made mask from Michel Doganieri at Protechsport. Michel's $300 full fibreglass mask has been worn for years in the NHL; his Kevlar mask is currently on (IIRC) about a dozen NHLers (mostly Quebecers withy ties to Reebok, like Luongo, Giguere, Auld, etc.). Now, in order for this to work, he needs a plaster head mould and 2-3 weeks, but this is way better than the 14-16 weeks he used to quote. For $300, your head will be covered for life.

Brilliant pick-up on the pads: the Koho 580s are wonderful. In fact, I recognise that exact pair from eBay; I was sorely tempted.

They look to be in terrific shape, but there are a few things (since you're clearly capable) that I'd strongly advise.

The first is easy: remove the thigh-boards (those big square flaps that are laced into the back of the pad just above the knee) and buy some separate knee-pads. Your knees will not only be better protected, but your skating and general movement will be much less impeded.

The second is to replace the Cordura knee-wings (the somewhat rounded flaps that are sewn into the medial/inside binding at the knee) with polyurethane synthetic leather. This will allow you to slide much, much more consistently and with far less effort in the butterfly. Any high-grade stuff you can get your hands on will probably work, but the stuff that J.Ennis Fabrics distributes under the name Jenpro is considered the best for goaltending applications. Clarino and Sofrina are (I understand) superior products for most upholstery applications, but have their drawbacks on the ice in durability. The easiest thing to do would probably be to open the binding, take the knee-wings off, take them apart, use the Cordura shapes as templates, and put the whole thing back together. The only thing I'm not sure about (since memory fails me) is whether the foam in knee-wings of first-generation 580s (which is what you have) is soft or rigid. If it is soft foam (easily flexible, indents to moderate pressure), you'll probably want to replace it with some high-density foam -- HD110 Plastazote from Zotefoams, if you can get your hands on it, is what Michel Lefebvre used in his subsequent Reebok pads. If you're going this route, I'd suggest abandoning the 580 template and just making yourself an NHL-spec rectangular knee-wing, 5.5" in length (running parallel to the pad, when attached) and 6" in width (perpendicular to the pad).

Before you re-attach the knee-wing to the pad, I'd strongly suggest grabbing a little extra PU leather and reinforcing a few spots. That diagonal line of stitching that crosses the three knee-rolls as they wrap onto the medial edge of the pad (clearly visible at the knee in the second pic you posted) are in amazingly good condition, but they are one of the two major wear-points on the 580s. If that cluster of seams goes, the whole pad comes apart, and that spot is in constant contact and friction with the ice. It's the one stupid point in the design of the pads. If you can cover up those seams with a few PU leather patches, with maybe 1/16" of low-density closed-cell foam (LD45 Plastazote ideally) you'll add years to the life of those pads.

Likewise, a couple of small patch-jobs to similar spots at the ankle and boot of the pad will go a long way. I can already see in the pictures that the hidden seams on the medial roll at the ankle and toe are wearing through. If you've got the gumption to take this piece off and replace it, godspeed, but that's something that would give me pause. Patching it with a single piece might be easier. Then you'll want to replace and significantly extend the PU leather toe-binding of the pad. Currently, it just comes around the corner of the toe; you'll want it to extend all the way up to the bottom edge of the calf-wing, to complete cover the nylon binding that are, I'm sure, already showing some wear. Use an 8"-12" bayonet-point mattress needle and some seriously heavy waxed thread for this, following the current pattern that's on the boot and on the top of the thigh. When you're putting the PU leather binding on, add a small piece of low-density foam, about 1/8" or a little less) between the leather binding and the nylon ones beneath: this will prevent the relatively rigid nylon bindings from sawing through the leather, which will happen in short order given the amount of friction at this point.

It's a shame you didn't hold off your GM order a little bit, because they have some replacement straps at decent prices in their Accessories section. That said, my advice would be to replace the leather straps with webbing straps and quick-release/side-release nylon buckles. You can pick these up for a few cents at MEC, or you can be able to get them wholesale. They're way, way cheaper than leather, much lighter, no less durable, and cut significantly time off your dressing and undressing at the rink -- which is especially important when the shinny's already under way and your fingers are freezing off before you've got your skates tied. :)

The blocker and glove both appear serviceable, but you could (just for reference) have done quite a bit better in terms of condition and colour-matching (which, even if it isn't important to you, is weirdly important to the shooters you play with and against at a subconscious level: they tend to distrust a goalie with a piece that doesn't match). Like Ax said, if the palm is broken down, especially at the break that the two halves of the glove fold across when you open and close it, you could get some nasty stingers, and the bones in there take forever to heal, and rarely do correctly. If you ever need to replace the blocker's palm, Nash Sports sells replacements with Air-Knit mesh gussets for $18.

The Koho C/A looks to be in terrific shape, and should do very well for you in casual play. You might get the odd bruise, stinger or paralysed arm if someone catches you in the right spot, but nothing too bad. My only suggestion would be to augment the protection around the sternum. Adding a little extra buffer here, a hard plate to distribute and delay impacts, is literally a life-saver. Fortunately, you have exactly the piece you need left over from the 580 pads: one of those Koho thigh-boards. Just sew that on using four little bits of elastic strap (diagonal from the corners of the thigh-board, ideally), so that it covers from just below the collar of the C/A, and you're golden.

Sadly, those Mission M-2 pants are player pants, not goalie pants. The seller misled you there, knowingly or not. They're very nice player pants, but they A) will limit your movement in certain crucial ways, and B) lack sufficient protection in key areas, chiefly the front of the hip. They are also (being player pants) excessively long, and will certainly interfere with your pads; even the longest goalie pants, like the vaunted CCM 620/G8 pro design, are much shorter. If you can return the Mission pants to the seller, do it; otherwise, I'd move them on to a skater and find some goalie pants for yourself in the next couple of months.

The jock, collar and dangler all sound fine, though I'd have suggested a Maltese Gel Combo instead of the Vaughn collar if you'd committed the cash to buying new. Phil's gel can't be cut by a skate, and (I'm speaking from personal experience here) will reduce the impact of an 80-ish mph shot to almost nothing. (The only reasons you can't make a full set of gear out of this stuff are that it weighs a ton and is kind of hard to work with, so it's restricted to spot-duty.)

I hope that helps!

If you can return the pants and mask to the Kijiji seller, I'd suggest giving it a try. Above and beyond everything else I've said, whoever sold them to you did not disclose that the chin-cup was missing from the mask, nor that the pants were in fact player pants, not goalie pants. He may dismiss you with the old caveat emptor line, but it's worth finding out if he'll be gentlemanly about it. You can soften the blow by showing him your repairs to the pants, and letting him know that he'll do better selling them properly as player pants (which he will: they're pro-level pants for any skater).

[AIREAYE 248]

One of the best posts I've seen on here Law Goalie, this is why he runs this board.

Just curious though, you live in Calgary, there must be a lot of places you can go for goalie stuff. Pro Hockey Life has a large selection of goalie gear (at retail prices though). Even Play It Again or Source for Sports will have a good combination of used and new stuff too. You should (if you haven't) check out those places as well.

[Law Goalie 147]

Actually, Netminder32 runs it - I just warm it up for him when I've got the time.

[TheWay 0]

Thank you Lawgoalie for a very through reply.

I want to start this reply by saying that a good chunk of what you said I missed on was due mostly to price and not effectiveness.

Pads:

Thanks for the reconstruction advice. Ennis is a supplier of ours at work so wholesaling some Jenpro won't be hard. I will experiment with the knee wing and make that switchover sometime this summer. This isn't too arduous because the wing on one of the pads has a tear in it which I would have had to rebuild anyways.

The bottom seams that you talk about are all buggered anyways. Currently there is car-Goop holding them all together. I will sew them back together and post some pics.

As for the straps, I think I'm going to go custom on this one. You mentioned webbing and plastic snap release style buckles, what kind of webbing is best? When I say fabric shop I mean Industrial fabrics so I have many to choose from. Also, what kind of sewing supplies work best for attaching new straps?

The Mask:

Oh the mask. I will definitely look into something more sturdy in this department. I do actually have the chin strap but have removed it for street hockey. I'm still working on a budget here so a custom fitted mask seems a little excessive but I will try and make something happen this summer.

Glove:

This thing is a fixer-upper. Not sure about the state of the padding where the interphalangeal (finger) joints sit but the rest of the palm is in stellar shape. I'll check it out and if I do choose to rebuild this thing, which I'll probably do for fun regardless, I'm going to use navy fabric so that it matches the blocker and, to a lesser extent, my pads.

Pants:

Well that's a bit disappointing. Ah well, for what I paid for the stuff I won't complain.

Collar:

I am very aware of the Maltese and based on the reviews of this board and what their website shows I would love one of these. Unfortunately, I'm playing pond hockey here and the budget seemed to favor the 35$ foam version over the 120$ gel. Mark my words, if I start to take goaltending into any organized play I'll get a Maltese.

C/A:

Thanks for the info on this protector. I read somewhere else that this protector could use some coverage for the sides of the ribcage. Is this true? If it's the case I might attach the thighboards there and make up a HD foam sternum pad myself.

[Law Goalie 147]

Believe me, I get the constraints. That kind of gradual easing into the position is tough. The most financially sensible thing to do is to buy a bunch of used pro-grade gear that you can resell at the same price after some moderate use (it won't degrade in quality or value), but that still represents a substantial outlay of money and, more importantly, time and effort to arrange, especially when you're starting from scratch. Likewise, the Protechsport helmet is an insanely good deal, and vital protection, but in your context, say, $150 for a mask that's at least comparable (used Hacka, etc. as per Ax) in terms of protection could be better.

My only really serious advice here is not to skimp on the key spots. You'd seriously be better off wearing player skates and risking your toes than risking your head in that helmet. Likewise, you are at a significant risk of injury in those pants when facing pucks. It's not even a question of how hard the shots are coming: 30, 50, 70 mph, it just has to catch you the right way.

I didn't realise the Vaughn throat was only $35 - that's a great deal, and well worth it as an interim measure. Just as an FYI, Maltese has a new gel supplier which supposedly has a lighter and better product, so keep your eyes peeled for used units: there will be a pile of guys cycling into the new stuff.

Definitely keep us posted on the 580 rebuild. I haven't done a full tear-down on a pair of those, only on my RBKs, and I (for one) would be very interested to see pictures of that. You may finding it easier when rebuilding the pad to use 3mm cord and a lacing needle instead of the heavy thread running through the face and back of the pad.

I don't know the sources of the webbing in question, but the most comprehensive place I've found is one in Surrey: The Web Source. You'll want to use 1" wide webbing and buckles. The best wholesaler for the buckles is National Moulding/Duraflex: they have a couple of websites, and , of which I believe the first is the most up to date. The Web Source is also a Duraflex distributor.

The best thread for hockey applications (in my experience and that of others) is #138 bonded nylon. That seems to be the tried-and-true standard for dealing with the variety of textiles found in hockey gear, from 400D nylon to Jenpro. You'll want to use something heavier on the Jenpro bindings at the toe - I don't know offhand what it's called, but it's a very heavy waxed nylon thread that comes with Speedy stitcher sewing awls.

When you're doing the glove, what you'll want to use to rebuild the protection in the palm is, believe it or not, wool felt. The F3 and F5 grades are commonly used; F50, sometimes, if you want it thinner (1/16 and 3/32").

I should have mentioned that the 470 C/A could perhaps use a little more coverage, especially for a guy of your build. You probably have pretty good anterior coverage, but the lateral coverage is probably lacking, and you may have less than ideal coverage across the chest behind the shoulder-floaters (those long pieces running from the top of the shoulder down to the chest). I'm in much the same situation: after being fairly cavalier about it for a long time, I ended up adding a row of small blocks to the sides of the chest AND full rib-wraps from another C/A. I wouldn't suggest using the thigh-boards as rib coverage. Firstly, they'll restrict your ability to bend with the C/A, since in effect they'll add a rigid frame to the lower abdominal blocks; second, they won't offer great protection unless you add at least another 1/2" of LD foam to the side close to your ribs. C/A's are kind of like shock-absorbers: there's a hard exterior plate (HD foam, or plastic on the most expensive units) that takes the initial impact, which is then dissipated through several layers of lower and lower density foam. Those Koho thigh-board are, I believe, either plastic OR HD with a very thin layer of LD backing: you'd definitely get stung through them at the ribs, but they make an ideal breastplate.

Man, do I envy you with access to the Ennis catalogue: I've had to scrape up scraps as I go along.

[TheWay 0]

Thanks for the help guys.

I will replace the mask before the winter. Not sure what wit but I'll keep my eyes on kijiji for a decently priced Hackva.

The pants will likewise be replaced. The M2s were actually being used by the guy who I bought them from as goal pants, he claimed to play some fairly high level hockey. What do you guys figure I could get for those M2s given that they're used and have a rebuilt crotch (I even replaced the zippers in the legs)?

Felt for the glove eh? I'm gonna strip the thing right down to it's constituent parts in the next couple of weeks. The fold does feel a little light on the padding so I might add something new. is the palm the same concept as the C/A foam, a HD layer and then less dense layers?

All projects for the coming months, I'll post some pics of the work I'm going to do and show off anything else I acquire. But for now there is rugby to be played. Later guys.

[Law Goalie 147]

Glad to help in whatever minor way I can. Frankly, given your abilities and your access to materials and equipment, you'll probably do a better job than I ever could. (And if you ever feel like putting a couple of orders through Ennis and a Plastazote dealer for me so I can do some prototyping... or just a little extra of that navy Jenpro you're ordering... )

Watching for Hackva, Sportmask, and Promasque: those will always be solid shells. Protechsports are rare, and the fits are necessarily specific to the former wearer. There are usable Itechs (like Ax said, the 4000, plus the 4600, 960, 961, 9600 and 9601) but they tend to command unreasonable premiums for the protection they offer. Likewise, Eddy makes some excellent masks, but they've also made a couple of complete dogs.

Oh, and if you happen to be out in BC, check out Andre at DREmask: he's just egtting started, but he has world-class materials and he's learned from the best. The only thing better than a mask made to your head-mould is a mask made from a mould made in-person by the guy making the mask.

I'm just guessing here, but you might get $40-$50 for the M2's. Some guys loved them. I think you could reasonably call them 'professionally refurbished.'

What you'll find in the palm of most gloves (and for sure in your Brian's) is a layer of LD45 (on top, closer to the puck) and a layer of felt (on the bottom, closer to the hand) sandwiching two or three pieces of HDPE (usually 1/8"), with the foam and felt sewn around the plastic. The whole thing will be glued together prior to sewing. The glove's break will be defined either as a simple hinge between the two pieces of HDPE, or a double hinge with a small strip 'floating' between the two: this is what produces 'U-shaped' and 'C-shaped' breaks, rather than 'V-shaped' breaks (I'm using Eagle's fairly viable terminology here). U feel like the glove is folding around a vaguely rectangular shape (like a stick-shaft); C feels like you're wrapping around a baseball; V has little to no space at the base of the break.

Enjoy the rugger while the weather's good, and keep us posted!

[TheWay 0]

Alright, I started the strip down of the glove tonight.

Here is a picture of the palm before I began.

This is the opened up glove showing the leather glove itself and the back of the plastic plate which is covered in stitched on felt.

Here is the opposite side of that plate, showing the plastic plate. The plate is once piece with a much smaller (1/3"x2 1/2") piece where the glove articulates. As far as I can tell the rest of this piece sits behind the thumb plate which I didn't take apart as it seems to be in great shape (it feels like a solid half barrel shaped plate is in there).

The part that is most worry-some to me is the state of the leather glove that holds the fingers. The bottom edge is shredded as you can see here. Is this a problem and if so is there any recommendation as to what material this part could be made out of if I were to make a new one.

Also distressing is an almost complete lack of HD foam in the fingers at all. There is one piece (about 1/2" x 1/2" x 2") just below where the glove articulates.(slightly closer to the thumb than the torn leather)

As far as I can tell the felt is in good shape, the plastic plate is not cracked. All that I'm worried about is the torn glove and replacing the leading edge, binding and grommets on the opposite flap of the glove.

[Law Goalie 147]

The material around the fingers (sometimes referred to as the 'inner glove' or 'finger stalls') is a suede-like, lightly napped PU leather that is widely (and misleadingly) referred to as 'Nash' because many repair shops and small builders get it from Nash Sports. Most of the major PU leather producers have a similar product, but most hockey stuff is a form of the ubiquitous Clarino from Kurary. On that glove, oddly enough, it's the same stuff that's covering most of the face as well. That's less and less common, but every once in a while you'll see a goalie somewhere raving about 'Nash palms' because they think the extra friction slows down the rotation of the puck, or something.

Having said that, you really could use any material you like in there. If you want something really comfy and quick to dry, use some of Ennis' Air-Knit mesh material for the part facing the back of your hand (many newer gloves are using this), or even neoprene, and something really nice like goatskin or a textured synthetic for the part facing your palm, where you want a little tactility and grip. The problem with 'Nash' suede Clarino is that it, like most other porous synthetics, eventually starts to smell like death.

Now, if you want to get REALLY tricky, you could try to make yourself a blocker palm like that, with Air-Knit gussets...

I'd definitely leave the thumb assembly as-is for now, and just deal with the palm. The easiest way to make sure you end up with a whole glove in the end is to do it in two halves, as you have. The thumb is, as you inferred, basically a solid barrel.

As long as the felt hasn't been heavily creased or worn through, it should be good to go. Most gloves don't use HD foam at all, and when it is used, it's generally in the backhand protection rather than the palm.

You don't even really need to replace the grommets/eyelets; they're just there to make lacing the glove easier, and to provide a tiny bit of extra structural integrity to the holes - though if you're lacing the glove tight enough to strain those holes, you've already gone way too far. Personally, I hate the damn things: they always get bent and chew through the cord and the glove itself.

[TheWay 0]

The grommets I plan on using are two piece brass, they don't chew through anything and will last forever. I often take the ones we have at work off awnings 20+ years old with no discernible signs of wear.

I'm going to dig around the scrap bins at the shop and see what I can find for that glove. At the same time I'm going to commandeer some navy vinyl or Sunbrella to rebuild that leading edge with. The pictures don't show it but it is in rough shape and the attempted repairs by the previous owner don't look so hot.

[SirJW 207]

Law I'm not a goalie but I love all of your posts!

[Law Goalie 147]

If those grommets stand up to a puck impact, those sound ideal. I think I know the ones you mean; they're on some of my climbing gear.

There is a *lot* of corner-cutting and 'oh, I always use this' in the hockey industry -- that isn't a negative criticism, just an observed byproduct of traditionalism and razor-thin margins.

That leading edge binding is always chewed to hell; it's just a thin strip of bias-cut polyester. If you can get some vinyl on there, go for it. Some high-end player-gloves (mainly CCM, IIRC) did use synthetic leather as a binding material; the pair I have like that still look amazing after a lot of heavy use. Looks like the previous owner, in desperation, used *really* loose-woven accessory cord (like high-end retail shopping-bag handles) to replace the shredded lacing over that spot.

BTW, if you are looking to upgrade the interphalangeal protection, and might like to add a little extra grip to the glove while you're at it, you could put in a small 'finger ridge' when you're rebuilding the inner glove. All you want is a 1/8" piece of HD80, or even LD45, between the felt and whatever material you use against your palm, running from the base of the glove's palm up to the distal joints of your fingers. This will give you a little extra leverage when closing the glove (especially when it's sweaty) and give you a fairly noticeable increase in protection across the fingers.

Law I'm not a goalie but I love all of your posts!

Thanks :) -- it's nice to have some time to post again!

In this thread, TheWay really deserves the accolades: he's the one going out on a limb to try a new position, then ripping his glove apart and taking great pictures as he goes.

[TheWay 0]

Back from day one of work at the shop and I brought home some goodies.

The picture malfunctioned on my blackberry but it shows some heavy sewing thread (it was in the 'I don't care about this' pile) and a roll of teal/blue synthetic leather.

I'm not sure what brand the leather is, it resembles a really heavy Naugahyde with a scrim backing. Would this be good stuff to make the replacement finger glove out of? It seems to be waterproof so O might have to perforate it to let sweat out.

As for rebuilding the outside edge of the glove, I'm thinking of using either Zeus (vinyl on steroids) or Duradon (Indestructible canvas). I think that I may redo the whole centre panel of the glove in that to make the colour match my pads and blocker and to make that part of the glove last forever.

[TheWay 0]

Alright Blackberry is back up working.

Here is the fabric.

On a slightly unrelated note, you guys suggested knee pads to go with the pads; inside my pads there are what looks like knee guards. Let me know if you mean to use these and other knee guards or whether I already have them sewn in.

[Law Goalie 147]

Fabric looks good!

That protection sewn into the back of the pad below the thigh-boards would generally be called a thigh-guard or thigh-wrap. The problem with those is that just like thigh-boards, they resist the rotation of your knee behind the pad: if you wear them loose enough not to interfere with rotation, you open up holes in coverage, and if you tighten them up, the pads won't move properly. The fact that the previous owner had them added on tells you something about the reliability of stock thigh-boards for protection.

The beauty of standalone knee-pads is that the protection is always there, and they very often enhance rotation, since they're a nylon shell moving slickly inside the knee-lock: less friction, less strain, more precise movement.

Thigh-guards are an OK way for manufacturers to include *some* degree of knee-protection without throwing in a pair of expensive knee-pads with every pair of pads. A thigh-boards costs nothing to make; an NHL-legal thigh-wrap, only a little more; standalone knee-pads need more labour and more materials, and better materials, since they sit right against the knee.

[TheWay 0]

After a week of rugby I can finally get back to this project.

In the last week I also managed to pick up another piece of gear, goal skates that fit. They are Graf skates I bought for 50$ and they don't look like they've been used too much.

I'll post skate picks and pics of my work for the weekend here. I plan to reassemble the glove before monday and perhaps start patching the pads.

[TheWay 0]

Here are the skates.

And for tonight's work, here is my workstation.

Plan for now is to replace the finger glove and get the leading edge of the glove rebuilt before the weekend is out.

[TheWay 0]

The night is over and even though I only actually worked for about an hour I think I got alot done.

So I began with the glove.

That is an old leather welder's glove. I cleaned it up a bit and began processing it to put it into my old glove. Unfortunately, since my foreman is right handed and routinely toasts left glove I had a right one..no matter, I only need the fingers.

Voila, new leather interior for the glove.

I left that where it was, I need to visit my grandfather's garage tomorrow to borrow his leather punch to finish the glove off. The plan right now is to punch the base near the wrist as well as the fingertips and then lace the wrist onto the rope that holds the palm and wrist together. The finger will either be laced directly to the grommets on the leading edge or will be laced to some vinyl tabs that I can then sew into the inside of the back of the glove.

Next I began looking at the pads.

I got the first of the reinforcing patches sewn onto the medial aspect of the pads.

That picture shows one pad with the patch one without. My reflection on this procedure is that my bayonet head needle was sufficient, though running a baseball stitch was far easier than a straight stitch. I also found that having my sharpening stone and needlenose pliers handy was important.

The last thing I did was removing the thigh guards from the pads.

I'm going to do my stretching in them tonight and see if the rotation is any different.

I have one more question for you modders, what exactly makes the 'widowmaker' so dangerous? Is it the lack of structure on the plastic that makes it crack when hit by pucks? Has anyone ever experimented with layering fibreglass resin onto one of these Itech masks? Is that a safety issue or is it within the realm of possibility?

One other helmet option that I've seen floating around is the combo? Are these any good? Are they less expensive than a regular mask?

I'm gonna be working on these projects on and off this weekend, will check in tomorrow.

[Law Goalie 147]

The Grafs look terrific. When the 750s fit, they're comfy as hell.

The problems with the widowmaker are extensive. The first is simply that the shell is too flexible. The second is that it's flexible in the wrong way. There's a way to build very flexible masks that allows the shock to 'ripple' around the head, but you need very specific materials and shell design for that: Lexan won't do it. Then there's the padding. One of the ways to get away with an even thinner Lexan shell and still pass the pitiful CSA testing is to use EPP foam to add rigidity inside the shell. The problem is that EPP absorbs force primarily by crushing (failing gracefully), which is why it's used in 'one-and-done' bike helmets and player helmets: they take one big shot and then require replacement. That kind of approach to a goalie mask is simply crazy. Even a moderate impact could compromise the foam to the point that where it can no longer protect you from a bomb. EPP also does a lousy job with minor impacts that don't crush, which is largely why so many pro skaters prefer VN foam in their helmets: it's not only more comfortable, but it protects them better from the dozens of minor to moderate impacts they suffer every game.

So, in short, with a widowmaker, EVERYTHING is worse: the risk of catastrophic failure (shell splitting, major impact transfer) is significantly higher, as is the risk of progressive injury and progressive failure.

If you've got abilities with composite materials, just make your own mask from scratch, maybe using the 1200 as a blank. There, I'm afraid my knowledge is purely theoretical, but I might be able to dig up some stuff for you.

You are definitely safer in a helmet-cage combo than in 'widowmaker' masks.

I love your idea of lacing in the inner glove. Not only makes construction easier, it also give the option of easier replacing it down the road if it wear out. Definitely let us know how that works out.

By the way, when you have a moment, send me a private message on the board: I might have a few things for you.

[TheWay 0]

The glove is done.

First thing I did was to perforate a bunch of holes into the wrist of the glove and into each finger (I also added some down the back of the fingers for ventilation).

Then I proceeded to replace the leading edge of the glove with blue 18oz vinyl.

The last pictures shows the holes I used for lacing the fingers to as well as the finger holes themselves in the glove.

I then laced the wrist of the glove in place with the waxed thread. I wanted to use the lacing twine (1/8" nylon) but the shoelaces currently holding the wrist to the glove was too tight and set in place to get twine under it.

I then laced the fingers onto the leading edge of the glove with my lacing rope.

After that it was simply a matter of lacing the palm pad back into place and then tying the perimeter back together.

There we are, 40$ glove that will work like new.

Let me know what you guys think.

[Law Goalie 147]

Very nice work. Obviously it looks a bit rough, but that's beside the point: it'll probably work very, very well.

If you find that white lace wears out kind of quickly (it's not as tight a weave as the usual 3mm cord), skate lace works well too, especially the waxed stuff.

Closure looks pretty solid in the last picture. Did the movement of the glove across the break feel any different?

[TheWay 0]

Sorry for not responding, I've been in Lloydminister for the last few days at a wedding.

The closure is much better. That was a major complaint about the glove originally which is why I laced the fingers directly onto the leading edge of the glove, it makes it feel a lot nicer.

It is rough, but considering my actual experience with a sewing machine only spans the last few weeks (I work in industrial fabrics but I mostly do production with heat sealing vinyl and tying fabric to frames). It will indeed work great for pond hockey.

I'm actually interested to see how the rope holds up. I've taken it off awnings 25+ years old in Calgary's weather and it is still almost usable for lacing again, I think it will hold up better than you think. If not, I can grab more from the shop; lacing that edge where the glove wears out only took me 10 minutes.

BTW, the roughest part of the glove is actually a patch on the top layer that sits on the top-most plane of the glove (centre-bottom of last pic), I had to patch it because it was torn and the blue vinyl doesn't look very good with the black in the rest of the glove.

[TheWay 0]

Alright I just found my camera cable and an now able to post all the gear.

First, the jock.

Vaughn V4 7600

Now the pants complete with knee pads that lawgoalie was gracious enough to throw in the box.

You'll notice by now how atrocious what I'm wearing is. I'm doing that so that you can see any holes in the protection. For reference, the pants are light blue plaid and the shirt is a 30 year old rugby jersey from the school I was working at.

Not that it's necessarily relevant but now the pads are on.

The chest protecter leaves a gap between the pants and ab-pad. I'm assuming that the small triangular bit that came with the pants is to cover this area. Barring that I'm sure my own belly pad will prevent any serious damage.

Full gear, complete with blocker, glove, stick and the savior of the head.

The bottom half of the picture, just for good measure.