A wrong way custom skate - need some help on hockey chassis

[Schnappi 0]

Hello,

I am currently seriously thinking about building up a pair of custom inline skates based on the hard shell boot (most likely a low cuff version of Roces Mahestic 12, from ebay or from a new M12 UFS) and an aluminum hockey frame. That might seem weird, but both have some advantages for skating from A to B and maybe playing some nothing-fancy street hockey on a very rough terrain while keeping the skate itself light and compact.

Unfortunately, after spending about a week trying to find some information on the Web (there were such skates before - that's how slalom and freeskates were created), I didn't find any I need.

The wheel/bearing setup is quite clear: those will be Hyper Concrete 80mm wheels and Bones Reds bearings (or any serviceable ABEC-5 like ones), but I have several questions about the frame (sorry for some of them - really have no inline hockey store around or know about any yet):

-Most likely it will be the Labeda Hum'er frame. Are there any other frames available for the flat 80 mm setup?

-What is the material of the cheaper Reebok Labeda frames - is it plastic? Also are the Labedas different from the Reebok_Labedas in any way?

-Is there a frame which would take flat 80mm setup and use 8mm one-piece axles with M7 thread and 32mm length?

-Is there any site which has some frames in different sizes measured?

-If I won't find any of the Labedas, I would try going for Mission's HiLo. Are the mounting holes on 2012 Mission and Bauer chassis the same?

-Are there still any (extruded) steel frames except the (stamped 2-piece) ones for the junior Bauer skates being produced?

-If anyone has ever done something similar: what should the frame size be - the one which is suitable for me, the one which is suitable for the outer shell length converted to shoe/skate size?

I would appreciate any help. Well, except for recommendation on getting a pair of sebas or twisters - I already have a pair of freeskates that I like. And it's not so easy to find sebas or twisters in the offline shop around here.

[vince57 4]

most flat setup hockey frames for the larger boots size 9-12 will fit 4x80, perhaps with a little grinding,

i used to have some HXS bauer (google images it) which were nice all round boots. http://www.sierratradingpost.com/hockey-hxs-inline-skates-by-bauer-for-men-and-women-~p~61643/

all the reebok labeda frames i have see are aluminium

labeda frames seem to be better quality than the reebok lebedas (and more expensive)

I got my chassis from here http://www.hockeyworld.com/index/page/category/category_id/45/category_chain/41,45/name/Chassis/

very cheap , top quality and shipped outside u.s.a. Most hockey frames include a compatible axle system

would just get a frame med-large , large would probably fit most agressive boot shells anyhow, mark them out and bolt them on

[Schnappi 0]

Most hockey frames include a compatible axle system

Which one is it actually? Are the axles normally steel or aluminum?

By the way: do those HX's have the same boot as Bauer Turbo?

[vince57 4]

the hxs was the same boot moulding as a bauer turbo but with a buckled upper same as fx3 however the buckle was aluminium instead of plastic

had a bauer tuuk 6000 grade competition chassis with the old 2 screws from either side threaded spacers ( still my favourite axle system but an absloute pig to manufacture replicas)

also had an upgraded clarino leather liner better than the fx3 or turbo.

you would be lucky to find any these days i got mine 15 years ago and unfortunately sold them 2 years back

Axles on aftermarket hockey frames are steel or aluminium depending on manufacturer/price

EVERY aftermarket hockey frame i have seen has included the correct axle system for it just add wheels, bearings

finding the correct axle system for a random second hand chassis may be difficult however,

stay away from the reebok tri di its Mega light but i have seen several crack !

the koho ones i bought were large size frames said 76mm only, after grinding just about fitted 80s in after buffing off the moulding rib on the wheels

they had steel straight through axles with alloy spacers in the wheels.

the labeda humer 9000s i have use a single alloy axle threading into the frame, nice and light but difficult to fix if you strip the thread or allen head

search ebay for a bauer fx3 usually really cheap , the frames are held on with 2 screws, take them off and bolt on the hockey frame of your choice

cheap hard shell fitness/hockey boots, new liners available cheaply and the ability to take on or off much faster than full lace up boots

einfach!

also bauer f3 f40 and other f series boots had the buckle upper some had buckle lowers too

[Schnappi 0]

you would be lucky to find any these days i got mine 15 years ago and unfortunately sold them 2 years back

Well, that's why I thought of building ones.

EVERY aftermarket hockey frame i have seen has included the correct axle system for it just add wheels, bearings

Actually, the idea was to have the same axles (like these) on these skates and my Powerslides.

the labeda humer 9000s i have use a single alloy axle threading into the frame, nice and light but difficult to fix if you strip the thread or allen head

That's actually is quite standard for aluminum frames, and is not a very big deal. First, if one uses steel axles, they should be allen ones (the allen screwdrive is easier to destroy when the screw gets stuck, so the thread in the frame will stay in place). Aluminum axles can also be torx, so one doesn't destroy them immediately. If the screwdrive is destroyed, one should just drill a (not too deep, and sometimes even not necessary) hole in the axle, put a spiral screw extractor (essentialy a left-handed screw, in case of the right thread on the axle/frame), and screw it into the hole. The bolt will come out. To prevent that one should loosen and tighten the axles once per week or so. It's also good to put a drop of oil on the thread when inserting a new axle.

cheap hard shell fitness/hockey boots, new liners available cheaply and the ability to take on or off much faster than full lace up boots

New hardshell fitness or hockey boots don't exist anymore, unfortunately.

also bauer f3 f40 and other f series boots had the buckle upper some had buckle lowers too

Mounting a buckle or changing the whole cuff is not that complicated. I would have to mount the 45 degrees buckle anyway.

[vince57 4]

checked my labeda 9000 axles thread dia is 7.65 ish pitch is about 1mm measured over 3 turns would think they are some odd (to us europeans) american inch thread size,

had tour frames (made by labeda) with odd threads in the past.

would suggest that they are not compatible with european manufacturers who will most likley use metric threads

some of the late 1990-2000 bauer f series boots had 2 buckles instead of laces

new turbo style boot liners are avaliable under the brand name supreme

[Schnappi 0]

checked my labeda 9000 axles thread dia is 7.65 ish pitch is about 1mm measured over 3 turns would think they are some odd (to us europeans) american inch thread size,

Hmm. Sounds imperial with no possibility of cutting an M7 (which is actually not so standard). Do they look like that?

would suggest that they are not compatible with european manufacturers who will most likley use metric threads

some of the late 1990-2000 bauer f series boots had 2 buckles instead of laces

Well, as I said, the European manufacturers also use not-so-standart threads and bolts (like T25 bolt which accepts the wrench from the box, but the actual T25 wrench has to be banged into the screwdrive with a hammer). And I would say, that most likely no skates are manufactured in Europe nowadays. Salomon skates are not made anymore, don't know about Roces - I think there were Italian-made models.

new turbo style boot liners are avaliable under the brand name supreme

I actually would rather go for a Roces boot - I had them before, and they fitted me better than Bauers of that time, and some liner similar to Sifika Chicago with the lacing loops on the upper part of the liner - really saves time when putting the skates on and is more comfortable than the Roces/Turbo one (they are quite smilar).

Thanks a lot for your reply!

[vince57 4]

labeda bolts did look like your pic

[Schnappi 0]

labeda bolts did look like your pic

That's actually very similar to Seba/Powerslide/Salomon. Anyway, currently waiting for Labeda Extreme Edge frame with bolts included. A couple of questions: are the slots on the mounting plates also supposed for the 2 bolts (that could help when aligning)? Found that the frame can take 84mm wheels. Is that true?

[vince57 4]

the tour/labeda chassis i have is the same as that one but the rear cutout om mine is milled in to a "T" rather than just a rectangle, it looks like there is enough room around the 80mm's in there to fit 84's only problem might be the 2nd wheel which already protrudes with an 80mm wheel as long as you are happy to grind the sole of the boot.

beware the axles, the ones in your pic look like both parts steel, the ones on mine have 1 part alloy which if overtightened bell mouths the part in the middle making taking the axle out very difficult.

you could use the slots in the top to sort out the alignment but would recommend using the std rivet holes to fix as 7000 alloy strong as steel but is brittle it fatigues and doesn't bend it snaps like glass

[Schnappi 0]

the tour/labeda chassis i have is the same as that one but the rear cutout om mine is milled in to a "T" rather than just a rectangle, it looks like there is enough room around the 80mm's in there to fit 84's only problem might be the 2nd wheel which already protrudes with an 80mm wheel as long as you are happy to grind the sole of the boot.

Will just try and see how it works out - I should have some spare 80mm wheels as well, and the frame is actually a "Large" (hope that not too large) size. All I can do now is to sit and wait.

you could use the slots in the top to sort out the alignment but would recommend using the std rivet holes to fix as 7000 alloy strong as steel but is brittle it fatigues and doesn't bend it snaps like glass

Sure. Otherwise, I would go for a random freeskate frame - essentially the hockey chassis, but a bit more heavy, and with the speedskating 165/195mm or UFS (same as previous, but with no 11mm heel lift) 2-bolts mount. More universal, easier to mount and center (centering might be tricky for the skates which have a soft liner), but issues with one of the (two) bolts getting loose are possible, and in that case this thread would make no sence at all.

[Schnappi 0]

A couple of questions: are the slots on the mounting plates also supposed for the 2 bolts (that could help when aligning)? Found that the frame can take 84mm wheels. Is that true?

The real experimentally obtained answers are:

1) No, those slits are too narrow to take the usual frame mounting bolts, and the frame is way too thin not to worry about breaking it.

2) No, 84mm wheels are not possible on this frame, maybe on the larger one (10.75"?), but I wouldn't be sure as well.

UPD: A used 80mm wheel (measured 79.2mm) actually fits the frame, but touches the mounting plate on the second position from the front and has very little space on the very rear position, so the actual wheel size is up to 78 mm most likely. Still, used 80mm wheels aren't a problem for me.

[vince57 4]

are you sure its a large frame, got the Med tour/labeda frame fitted to some size uk7 rbk 7k's had to buff the brand new 80mm's down to about 79mm to clear each other

anyhow its irrelevant you have your chassis , time to build and enjoy your custom skate

[Schnappi 0]

are you sure its a large frame, got the Med tour/labeda frame fitted to some size uk7 rbk 7k's had to buff the brand new 80mm's down to about 79mm to clear each other

I'm not. It says, it's 10.25" which sounds true, and in principle fits my walking shoes, which actually sounds M (size EU 42.5-43). I'm also not sure, how many frame sizes Labeda had back in 1995 - that's what the box says about arrival to the shop in Regensburg, Bayern from Cologne. The wheels that would fit perfectly are ~78-79mm, and the wheel spacing is not a problem - the chassis are longer than Powerslide Beta frame which has flat 80 mm (and is a source of 79 mm wheels). Next part is to receive the boots, and to fit the chassis to the 2007 USD VII shells, which seems to be more possible than with the newer model. Then I'm either done or have to find an older boot which had riveted frame.

Are the waveboard wheels geometrically the same as inline? Those guys seem to have something marked as 79mm.

I actually was a bit amazed how light the Labedas are - really like twice lighter and thin as a sheet of paper compared to freeskate frames. And that is supposed to be "too heavy".

[vince57 4]

the old labeda stuff was as good as it got at the time, i remember visiting puckstop in about 1997 and your labeda frames in metallic red were £265+fitting! no wheels or bearings. i so wanted some it hurt.

Was in my local roller hockey store today looking at the labeda frames on the new reebok skates, look like cheap nasty stamped out rubbish at the bottom end not getting much better as the price went up, i think labeda must have just sold some decal's to reebok and de-valued their name in the process!

that said the humer 9000's are awesome not found a used boot worthy of a conversion yet. might get them stripped and re-finished in custom colors.

[Schnappi 0]

were £265+fitting!

Most likely that's the reason why 15 years later I've got it for 25 EUR.

i think labeda must have just sold some decal's to reebok and de-valued their name in the process!

I would believe that the guy from reebok came to them and asked if they could design and/or make a cheap frame, a more expensive frame and an expensive frame. And anyway, it's a kind of tendency: my cheap Roces from around 1997 were really built like a tank in comparison with the nowadays' skates.

Finally the boots came, and they fit the chassis.

So, I can go straight to the most interesting part and stop annoying people on the Internet with stupid questions, but I just have a couple more. First, the amount of holes for mounting frame and soulplate and the overall crappiness of the boot (looks much nicer than it actually is) were a bit larger than I expected, and I cannot avoid it: that's the difference between newer and older version of the shell mold - the newer one is available in white, has less holes, and they are in less critical places, but seems to have no heel lift which makes it unusable for me). So, it would be reasonable to 'reinforce' the boot sole by sticking some glass-cloth (or something else) with the epoxy (or something else). Sometimes I saw people repairing the hockey boots in similar way. Can you recommend something (carbon fiber, filter net etc.)?

Second, the curvature of the mounting plates doesn't exactly match up with that of the boot, and bending the hard shell is close to impossible, and will likely result in breaking the boot or the frame or both. The first three ideas which come to my mind are:

• Just making two bumps with the glass cloth and epoxy, which won't be really durable.
  
• Making a small plate out of brass, aluminum, steel or plastic, and just bolting it together with the frame, which sounds the most reasonable but long and boring (yes, I know).
  
• Putting a thin sheet of hard rubber (or a piece of hard antishock, or any other elastomer) between the frame and the boot, which would automatically take care of any curvatures when bolted and at the same time work as an additional damper saving some space inside the quite tight sitting boot, balance and some weight as well.
  

The third option sounds tempting, but is it actually sane? In principle it might also speed up breaking of the frame mount because the bolts will constantly move. There were some inline skate-related patents that used similar things as a vibration damper, but it doesn't mean that the solution was successful.

[vince57 4]

My Old FX3 bauers had a rubber pad between the boot and chassis, it worked ok but felt awful.

best bet is to trial mount it up with a couple of screws on the front then use a plastic chopping board or some block nylon bought online (you can get plain black)

to make some thin wedges to fill the gaps, would try to make it a nice fit so you can tighten the bolts down and trap something nice and solid. if you're worried about the number of holes in the boot ( i wouldnt be) you could make a load spreader plate inside from 0.6mm aluminum sheet, but i wouldn't bother unless it showed signs of deterioration

[Schnappi 0]

if you're worried about the number of holes in the boot

More about their position. They are quite large, quite inaccurate and pretty close to where the holes for the frame are supposed to sit - two close to the very front ones and two right in the middle between the ones on the rear plate. But I guess that should be manageable.

And the very last question: which of the frames in the picture is supposed to be right one and which is left one, and does it make any difference? (The white shiny spacers are shifted towards the triangular head of the axlle - head of the longer part which is just fixed in the frame; the laser engraved Labeda logo is on the same side, but if there were any stickers before, they are gone)

[wetwilly17 6]

wouldn't those boots restrict any side to side ankle flex, and therefore restrict agility in a hockey environment?

[Schnappi 0]

wouldn't those boots restrict any side to side ankle flex, and therefore restrict agility in a hockey environment?

They would. Maybe not any, but the most part of that freedom will be gone, that's why the topic is called "A wrong way custom skate". However, the idea is to make them more street (here I don't mean stunts, but more going from A to B on the cracked asphalt and tiled pavements) compatible without sacrificing the possibility to use the wheels with durometer value larger than normally used for hockey (currently I skate on the 84A Hyper Concretes, and would go for 85A or even more) and without sacrificing the vibration damping abilities - sometimes it's not about comfort but stability. And from the opposite side - I don't do any jump-involving tricks, neither am I into the aggressive skating with all its grinds, so I could save quite a bit on the weight of the skate - it won't be as light as a hockey one, but the frame and fully assembled boot without wheels already seem to weight less not only compared to the original USD VII setup but also compared to my pair of freeskates (which are not the lightest ones, but everything I need for trying to build that monstrosity I've got for about the same money. Add fun (well, for me it's more a fun/hobby project) - and the conclusion is "why not?" Also extra protection from the hard boot helps sometimes.

[vince57 4]

my labedas were little triangles to the outside hex bolts to the inside

[Schnappi 0]

my labedas were little triangles to the outside hex bolts to the inside

Thanks a lot for your help.

[Schnappi 0]

So, just to end up the story: the skates are finished, it's the one with green wheels. Comfortable, responsive, maneuvrable, stable - as expected. Maybe not perfect, but for the first time it's really successful. In fact, the ankle side-to-side movement is not restricted too much due to the lower cuffs, for the hardboot, of course.

I really liked the idea of the load spreader, so I actually made a pair from 3mm PVC and bent it to the shape of the boots and to the shape of my feet with the inner boot on with a heat gun. Also, I decided not to fiddle around with wedges, but just to shape the boot to the frame with a heat gun as well.

They are not street tested yet, but indoors everything seems to be fine. They were a great fun to build, hope they will be fun to skate as well. Thank you once again for your help.

[Schnappi 0]

Hello again. I've got some new questions concerning the chassis.

• The chassis I've used for the skates in the comment above (Labeda Extreme Edge Pro 10.75") seem to have sizing slightly different from the later Hum'er chassis. Do I get it right, that Labeda always offered three senior sizes, and (first letter, than Hum'er II, than Extreme Edge) S=9.3=9.3, M=9.6=9.6 and L=10?=10.75? It's all the same.
  
• Do I get it right that the mounting holes on different Labeda chassis versions (i.e. Ex.Ed., Hummer, Reebok) of the same size have different positions (hole diameter is not that important for me)? Yes, that's right.
  
• Can one use the L-sized Hum'er with a set of 84 mm wheels with possible boot modification? Is it actually possible to file the "bridges" inside a frame without ruining the chassis? Possible on Reebok Labedas, filing required, boot modification likely required.
  
• Who was the manufacturer of Easton Hi-Lo chassis? Doesn't matter, those look fine. Red Star? Base?