Quad II vs 10-13 Profile

[Radien55 4]

Has anyone here skated on both? Is there a big difference?

I registered here recently, but I have been reading the forums for a couple of years, especially everything regarding the Prosharp project. Fascinating reading I must say! 
The 10/13 combo profile is rarely mentioned and I could not find anyone here or elsewhere that talked about skating on it.

Combo:   --10-13---
QUAD II: 7-10-13-16

Combo 10/13 is 10 in front and 13 in the rear, while the main and middle portion of a Quad 2 is 10 and 13. 
According to illustrations of the Quad, I think the 13 part starts before the middle of the blade, so a little earlier than a combo profile where it starts in the middle of the blade. Other than that, they are on paper very similar on the main part of the blade. Theoretically, if you profile a 10/13 to the same pitch as the Quad, they "should" feel very similar, but without the shaved toe and extra steel in the rear.

The 10/13 combo seems like a great compromise, the speed and glide of a 13' without the agility penalty. However the lack of popularity has me wondering. There are very few people talking about it and most shops don't even have the template.

I'm curious if there is anyone that has skated on it, or both profiles, that could share their opinion on it and maybe the differences between the two?

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 1/5/2024 at 4:28 AM, Radien55 said:

Has anyone here skated on both? Is there a big difference?

I registered here recently, but I have been reading the forums for a couple of years, especially everything regarding the Prosharp project. Fascinating reading I must say! 
The 10/13 combo profile is rarely mentioned and I could not find anyone here or elsewhere that talked about skating on it.

Combo:   --10-13---
QUAD II: 7-10-13-16

Combo 10/13 is 10 in front and 13 in the rear, while the main and middle portion of a Quad 2 is 10 and 13. 
According to illustrations of the Quad, I think the 13 part starts before the middle of the blade, so a little earlier than a combo profile where it starts in the middle of the blade. Other than that, they are on paper very similar on the main part of the blade. Theoretically, if you profile a 10/13 to the same pitch as the Quad, they "should" feel very similar, but without the shaved toe and extra steel in the rear.

The 10/13 combo seems like a great compromise, the speed and glide of a 13' without the agility penalty. However the lack of popularity has me wondering. There are very few people talking about it and most shops don't even have the template.

I'm curious if there is anyone that has skated on it, or both profiles, that could share their opinion on it and maybe the differences between the two?

I have used both and they are somewhat similar.

The Quad has an adjusted pivot point, -20mm, so it moves the center of gravity back. The pivot point adjustment and more aggressive toe, 7' radius, pitch you forward. The 10/13 without any adjustment will feel more flat, and you will be less agile. 

What type of skater are you? Long strides? Short strides? Agile? Powerful? What level do you play?

[Radien55 4]

5 hours ago, VegasHockey said:

I have used both and they are somewhat similar.

The Quad has an adjusted pivot point, -20mm, so it moves the center of gravity back. The pivot point adjustment and more aggressive toe, 7' radius, pitch you forward. The 10/13 without any adjustment will feel more flat, and you will be less agile. 

What type of skater are you? Long strides? Short strides? Agile? Powerful? What level do you play?

I have skated in Supremes and Vapors, mainly the latter. I have good acceleration and agility, my strides are short to medium length so I'm good from zero to medium speed, above that my game really suffers, I feel a lack of confidence and stability (although my new AS-V seems to help here, better fit and stiffness, less wobbly). I play in recreational league for ex-players.

I am in size 9 skates with 280mm runners. I use single 10' and I like it, but I want just a little more contact patch to aid grip, speed and stability, without hindering lateral mobility too much. I have skated a lot in Detroit 10-20 and while I liked the speed, and stability on crossovers, I felt flat footed, immobile and the extra steel really hindered lateral moves. 

I want something between the two (maybe closer to the 10'), that adds speed, stability on crossovers and can also handle lateral direction changes. I skate backwards a lot so many pivots forwards to backwards need to be accounted for, hence why I am looking at the Quad or similar, over a Zuperior or 13' which might feel too long. The Quad 0-1 shave off way too much steel for my liking, seems like it would lead to short and choppy strides as you run out of steel on the toe to push off with.

The 10/13 seems good in that it doesn't have a shaved toe, so it's familiar territory. The Quad II shaves off the least amount of steel, which is why I am looking at that one, despite being in a size smaller runners than it is recommended for. Does the 7' toe make it less stable to skate backwards? I also worry that the 16' in the rear might be too much and close to the Detroit feeling. 

I want to get a pitched profile for the Tacks so I can change easily change from neutral to pitched (and back) with a simple blade change. A non-pitched profile for the Vapors or they will be too much on the toes.

[VegasHockey 1280]

19 hours ago, Radien55 said:

I have skated in Supremes and Vapors, mainly the latter. I have good acceleration and agility, my strides are short to medium length so I'm good from zero to medium speed, above that my game really suffers, I feel a lack of confidence and stability (although my new AS-V seems to help here, better fit and stiffness, less wobbly). I play in recreational league for ex-players.

I am in size 9 skates with 280mm runners. I use single 10' and I like it, but I want just a little more contact patch to aid grip, speed and stability, without hindering lateral mobility too much. I have skated a lot in Detroit 10-20 and while I liked the speed, and stability on crossovers, I felt flat footed, immobile and the extra steel really hindered lateral moves. 

I want something between the two (maybe closer to the 10'), that adds speed, stability on crossovers and can also handle lateral direction changes. I skate backwards a lot so many pivots forwards to backwards need to be accounted for, hence why I am looking at the Quad or similar, over a Zuperior or 13' which might feel too long. The Quad 0-1 shave off way too much steel for my liking, seems like it would lead to short and choppy strides as you run out of steel on the toe to push off with.

The 10/13 seems good in that it doesn't have a shaved toe, so it's familiar territory. The Quad II shaves off the least amount of steel, which is why I am looking at that one, despite being in a size smaller runners than it is recommended for. Does the 7' toe make it less stable to skate backwards? I also worry that the 16' in the rear might be too much and close to the Detroit feeling. 

I want to get a pitched profile for the Tacks so I can change easily change from neutral to pitched (and back) with a simple blade change. A non-pitched profile for the Vapors or they will be too much on the toes.

I would do a 10/13 profile and have the pivot point moved back 10mm. 

[Radien55 4]

On 1/8/2024 at 8:36 AM, VegasHockey said:

I would do a 10/13 profile and have the pivot point moved back 10mm. 

Yes that makes sense. I don't want to be too much on my toes either, so 20mm might be too much. I think I will try with 10mm. Thank you!

I have a couple of questions on pivot point and pitch. Prosharp said you can move the pivot point back 5-20mm, they also said you can add forward pitch by 0-1 degree angle.

Question 1: When should you move the pivot point back XXmm versus adding +1 degree of forward pitch? I understand they are different methods of achieving a similar goal but when and why should you use one over the other?

Question 2: On a combo profile, the 13' radius starts in the middle of the blade. If you move the pivot point back 10-20mm, does the 13' part start later on the blade?

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 1/10/2024 at 3:58 PM, Radien55 said:

Yes that makes sense. I don't want to be too much on my toes either, so 20mm might be too much. I think I will try with 10mm. Thank you!

I have a couple of questions on pivot point and pitch. Prosharp said you can move the pivot point back 5-20mm, they also said you can add forward pitch by 0-1 degree angle.

Question 1: When should you move the pivot point back XXmm versus adding +1 degree of forward pitch? I understand they are different methods of achieving a similar goal but when and why should you use one over the other?

Question 2: On a combo profile, the 13' radius starts in the middle of the blade. If you move the pivot point back 10-20mm, does the 13' part start later on the blade?