Leif
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Posts posted by Leif
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A friend has had True skates for 8 months. Previously he had Bauer Nexus skates which caused him a lot of foot pain. He still gets pain from the True skates, but much less. The last time I saw him he was talking about re-baking them. What surprised me is that the skates show significant wear of the lining near the top eyelet, such that the lining has worn away to reveal the hard plastics beneath. He skates two hours a week at most. I see the same issue on my mid range Bauers but they are 18 months old and I skate 6+ hours a week including 3 hours hockey. High end Bauer skates have some tough fabric sewn over this region to prevent such wear. I also noticed in one of Nicholas G’s posts that his True skates tore at the back after a few skates. That is a bit shocking. My friend’s skates look good, the outer shell is very tough, they don’t show any obvious marks from other skates whereas my S160 skates are covered in rips and general damage. I presume high end Bauer and CCM skates would have a much tougher shell than mine. The True skates do look a bit home made, but in a good way.
One aspect did surprise me about Bauer customs and that is that the shop makes more profit from mid range skates which is why this shop does not keep high end skates in stock. After all, when the new range comes out, they would be left with old stock that they would have to sell at a loss, hence overall they might lose money. They don’t stock True skates, so I don’t know how much profit is in those.
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This isn’t the best advert for a True is it?
1 hour ago, CigarScott said:The beginning of training camp/season rush is over. They're probably twiddling their thumbs right now after that rush is now over.
That makes a lot more sense. Presumably that is the case for Bauer and CCM customs too.
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48 minutes ago, jared9356 said:So I ordered my pair on 11/5 in DFW. Skates entered production on 11/6 and I just received a notification that they have been shipped. Anyone else find this to be ridiculously quick?
Maybe orders have slowed down due to custom options now being offered by Bauer and CCM. This is just a guess, and could be nonsense.
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11 hours ago, CigarScott said:Once you break in the holder, Step is no harder to get in and out as stock steel. You may need to invest in a $12 heat gun to warm up the holders and dead blow hammer to get the steel in the first time but once you take them out and put them in a couple times, I don't notice a difference.
Maybe he could shove the runners in the freezer beforehand, and wear gloves when putting them in. I have step and standard Bauer holders, no issues swapping blades, but obviously there are sample variations.
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6 hours ago, stick9 said:Do you have any idea how much that sort of equipment costs, it's not cheap. That doesn't even take into account the space needed, the power to run it and the people to operate it. Again, I highly doubt that's how they are doing things.
It makes way more sense from both a business and manfacturering standpoint to assemble skates using off the shelf parts. Why is this so offensive to people? Its actually pretty realistic. I'm not knocking them, they need to make money too. I wish people in this thread would be a bit more realistic.
How much does it cost? Bauer and CCM have invested in CNC milling machines for their custom skate lasts, so clearly they think that sales will recoup the cost over time. And I suspect that a custom cutting machine is cheaper than a CNC mill. Not sure anyone is offended, or unrealistic. And isn't space fairly cheap in Quebec? As to people to operate such equipment, the hard work is in programming the machines. Once that is done, costs per unit can be reduced.
But I have no inside information.
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52 minutes ago, stick9 said:I don't think you're following me when it comes to the manufacturing process. My point is simple, the skate is not made from scratch. It's assembled from parts that are pre-made to fit a specific last. From scratch implies that ever piece is cut and made specifily for that customer. That would mean every boot was a complete one off. You can't sustain that at those costs, you just can't.
As for last longer. Maybe you can prove it, it just sounds so far fetched. It's not like miles on a tire.
I do not know how the manufacturers make custom skates, but you are making assumptions. These days computer controlled cutters and CNC mills could allow full custom skates at reasonable prices. As to what a True do, who knows. I will soon speak to someone who has spoken with Bauer reps about their custom skates, and I am eager to hear her news.
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I don't think they've even started selling units overseas. I'm one of many Brits who have the money, but cannot yet buy one. I am sure many countries especially those in Scandinavia and Eastern Europe could prove quite lucrative for Sparx. Also don't forget that many machines will be sold to a family with one or more kids who have started playing hockey on a regular basis, so there's a whole set of new customers each year.
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I decided on Bauer rather than True for the rather prosaic reason that the Bauer custom shop is 25 miles away, whereas the True shop is 200 miles away, and fitting requires two journeys, one for the scan, and one for the heat moulding. I also have a very good opinion of the people at the local shop and quality of service is important when you spend that sort of money. I suspect many people in the south of England have made the same decision, certainly some friends who said they would buy True skates subsequently opted for Bauer customs after the local shop started doing them.
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5 hours ago, Nicholas G said:True still builds their skates from scratch and from the inside out. Bauer and CCM pick a last off a shelf and then customize the last. The way the skates are built is entirely different between True vs others. In fact, most True skates will last you many seasons compared to other brands which just aren't built with the same materials that would allow for such longevity.
For example, take a look at a pair of FT1 or Vapor 1X skates after a season of playing high-level hockey and then compare them to a pair of True skates. It will be clearly evident which skates are built with more durable materials.
Are you sure? Bauer and CCM claim that they use 3D scans to make custom lasts for each customer. They even have videos on YouTube showing the lasts being machined on CNC mills. According to discussions on this forum True do not make a custom last, but use an existing last, chosen from a large selection, which most accurately matches the customer's feet.
As to longevity, a friend has Easton skates made from carbon fibre which he replaced when they started cracking after 8 years of heavy use. Before that he used cheaper skates which wore out after a year or two. Can others confirm that for example Bauer 1S skates only last one high level season, whereas Trues last much longer?
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About me:
Age 55.
Experience: One and a half years.
Level: muppet.
I started out with the Bauer 4500 helmet and face cage. It does the job, but you feel every bang on the head due to the firm foams used. I decided to upgrade the helmet after I collided with a huge player going at full speed who wasn’t looking where he was going. I was nowhere near the puck, so there was no excuse, but there was a loud bang as our helmets collided, I went flying, he remained upright, and I had a headache for several days afterwards , which is not good.
The Bauer Reakt 200 is a top end helmet, and well reviewed by Virginia Tech. I know the VT reviews are controversial, but a good review can’t be a bad thing. So I ordered a large to try, and bought it as it fitted well. The first time I wore it on ice I had mild pain either side of my head, which I figured out was due to the cage being too narrow, despite being a large. A few minutes manually widening the cage sorted out the discomfort.
This helmet is much more comfortable than the 4500, and after suffering a collision with the boards and a whack on the head from a stick I can say that it provides noticeably more protection than the 4500. Obviously if my head hits something hard, and decelerates rapidly, the helmet will not protect my brain from the deceleration, but the soft foams do without any doubt dissipate the impact much better, and hence the helmet should reduce brain damage to some degree.
The helmet is expensive compared to others, but given that brain damage is a serious risk, I don’t mind paying more for a better level of protection.
Added 1 January 2019: Last night I took a slap shot to the head while wearing this helmet. The puck hit the plastic shell above the forehead. It wasn't the most powerful of shots, thank goodness, but the helmet did its job: I didn't feel a thing, nothing and I haven't felt anything since either, so hopefully there was no zero injury. When it impacted, I had the feeling that the foams and suspended lining inside the shell were deforming and absorbing the shock of the impact. I'm sure my old 4500 would not have dealt so well with that shot. So, a big thumbs for the new helmet.
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21 minutes ago, Santos L Halper said:Okay. So. One genius ignores the safety literature,
At some point we, as a society, need to stop protecting people from their own stupidity.
I largely agree, however they might have been scared of law suits and decided not to take the risk. My new VW car has a user manual that is largely useless as most of it consists of warnings along the lines of “do not drink the brake fluid”, no doubt due to fear of litigation.
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@strosedefence34 : Thanks, I edited my post just as you posted your comment, as I think you are right.
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1 hour ago, strosedefence34 said:You're close
Bauer:
Fully custom skate based off of a 3D print of your foot according to @JDub here on page 7. Bauer just isn't offering as many options to the general public as they do for their pros which makes senseI don't think we said anything different, except that for the Bauer you use the term 'fully custom skate' without clarifying what that means. Having seen a YouTube video of Bauer custom skates being made, my understanding is that they take mostly off the shelf components (quarter package, sole, toe cap etc), throw in a few customisations (tongue etc), build the skate and then use heat and pressure to mould that 'almost stock' skate to a mould of your foot. This seems like a rather clever approach but perhaps not quite as good as made to measure if your foot diverges markedly from a stock skate. Of course I may be mistaken, and it might indeed be a made to measure skate with unique toecap etc, in which case hopefully someone such as JDub will chime in and correct me.
As an aside, the Bauer 3D scan is fascinating. I never until then realised what shape feet I have, and how they related to the three Bauer skate models, and that my feet do not properly conform to any model.
Edit: Ah okay just read the comment by @JR Boucicaut which suggests that Bauer custom is indeed made to measure. That is good news.
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20 hours ago, Hack_11 said:I have decided to look at custom skates again. I have 2015 1X custom skates (C/AA width), but I want a bit better heel lock.
A couple of questions for some of the guys who have tried the different brands of skates... Do the Bauer 1X / 2S Pro, CCM AS1 / FT1, or Trues have the best heat mold properties? Have any of these had better heel lock than the others for anyone who has tried the different ones? Is there any real difference between CCM, Bauer or True in their custom process (do they all use a 3D print of your foot or pre-made lasts that are close)? Is the True really that much more heavy than the others (or is it mostly attributable to the steel)?
Thanks for your help.
According to various online sources, it would appear that CCM and Bauer use a machine to make a custom mould of each foot. CCM openly state that a stock boot (or one with custom options) is then formed using heat and pressure around each mould. I believe Bauer do the same, thus the custom options are tongue, blades and lacing eyelets, other parts of the boot are stock. Many people state that True make a proper fully custom skate from your foot measurements, but they form it around the closest existing mould that they have, of which there are supposedly 350. However, this is speculative and may be incorrect.
I have duck feet, which are shallow, and not particularly wide, which might suggest Vapor, but the widest part is at the end, just like a duck’s foot, which does not map to Vapor as that assumes a narrowish foot end. I guess Bauer believe that by choosing the boot with the correct volume, the pressure moulding will create a good fit. I believe that the toe cap is and off the shelf and not heat formable, which could be an issue for people like me. I guess even though this process is called custom, in reality it is not a proper custom as per custom made shoes, but how good it is remains to be seen.
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15 hours ago, Nicholas G said:There is no 2N Pro coming from what I understand.
See the reply from JDub on page 7 which briefly describes the 2N Pro skates.
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11 hours ago, Larry54 said:One thing that jumps out at me when seeing your scan is the outer toes on your right foot especially. My feet are similar in that the big toe not only has a bump on the side but also doesn't taper toward the middle to follow the shape of a typical skate toe cap, maybe a bit more than yours. That always gave me problems until I got a pair of VH where they shaped the toe caps to accommodate this. Otherwise I had to get skates that were a size larger to minimize the problem which was not ideal. So while your feet might not be overly wide, it might feel that way to you if you need extra width in the toe cap. Maybe your custom skate will take that into consideration with an oversized toe cap or something of the sort.
That’s an interesting question whether the moulded toe cap is custom, or off the shelf, I suspect the latter. I tried on Vapor 6.5 EE and my toes felt bunched, whereas with Supreme 6.5EE they didn’t, so I think I will be fine. You’d think Bauer had this all sorted anyway, as they’ve been doing this custom line for pros for a while now.
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1 hour ago, mojo122 said:I'd have no problem putting you in a Supreme looking at that scan. The 3D Skate analyzes and recommends best fit or primary fit. Where you have one foot which is wider than the other going custom is a good decision.
Thank you. My LHS has always been very good. Apparently Bauer customs are doing quite well for them.
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1 minute ago, Larry54 said:What size and width of Supreme are you wearing, and what size and width of Vapor does the scan recommend?
My current skates are stock Supreme S160 7EE. The recommended stock Vapor is 7EE. Hopefully you can see the scan here:
https://my.volumental.com/en/bauer/2f029e24-c1e1-4885-bd8a-706f9cc01baf/?utm_medium=myvemail
I always thought I had wide feet, but they’re actually not that wide. I have decided to go for customs, and when I mentioned I was previously most happy with Supremes, Mark who did the scan said I could go for Supremes. I tried on Supremes and Vapor in 6.5EE. The Supremes did not feel too deep, whereas Nexus are like boats on my feet.
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On 8/2/2018 at 3:31 PM, JR Boucicaut said:I feel like I'm repeating myself - I posted this two pages back.
The "stay in family" refers to the boot, primarily in terms of volume.
This is absolutely nothing new. When we did custom skates before, we would recommend the boot with the path of least resistance as a base. That's why you don't see low volume Nexus skates or high volume Vapors. There are 3 lines to work with. Plus all of those lines skate differently and have different pitches.
CCM is doing the same thing. What @BlueNux is asking for isn't feasible at this time.
Could you explain how the three Bauer lines differ in terms of pitch and skating? Thanks.
I had a 3D scan yesterday. It recommended Vapor as ideal, Supreme as border line, Nexus as completely unsuitable. My current skates are stock Supreme which had the best fit when I tried all three lines on a couple of years ago. The Vapor failed the pencil test, so I assume the pencil test is only a guide, as otherwise they were okay. That said, I’ve been happy with Supremes and that is my preferred model. JDub did indicate that you can go to a neighbouring model, though generally it is to be avoided.
As others have said, the price difference between custom and non custom is minor compared to the non custom price.
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I forgot to take the gel pad along for the last skate, so instead I didn't tighten the skate much at the top eyelets, and it seems to have done the job. So you are right, it was pressure rather than overuse, or bad skate design.
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Thanks. I’ll use a Silopos gel pad. I’ve decided to get some custom skates, which I hope will be more comfy.
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This week I skated for at least ten hours, a bit more than usual, and I now have discomfort in my right foot. Where the foot joins the leg, and slightly to the right, not far from the ankle. Bending the foot, as when crouching for example, is uncomfortable. This isn’t lace bite, I’ve had that a few times on the top of the foot. Does anyone know the cause of the discomfort and how to avoid it? It makes driving a car trickier. At present I’m giving skating a miss for a few days to let it recover. I wear Bauer Supreme S160 skates which are 20 months old, and otherwise very comfortable.
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Is there any advantage to the custom skates over stock S2 Pro for someone who fits stock mid range supremes well?
As an aside, my old style speed plates have cracked after a couple of months. That’s not good.
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2 hours ago, Nicholas G said:I never back any of the kickstarter projects, the rate for failure is too high. I read somewhere that only 10% fail but then another independent study showed it was more like 50%.
True, but there’s probably a lot of bad ideas out there. The Marsblade holder might not be the product hoped for, but it looks pretty solid in terms of support from respected names.
VH Footwear/TRUE by Scott Van Horne
in Ice Hockey Equipment
Posted · Report reply
I don’t know how he has his shin pads and won’t see him until Thursday. That said, this is caused I assume by the edges of the tongue rubbing against the inside of the skate, assuming it is as per my Bauer skates.