Superjet
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Posts posted by Superjet
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6 hours ago, pds said:Interesting, no I didn’t move the tongue around this time. I did play with it the first time I received the skates. I am using the cut resistance Bauer socks. Here’s the thing, I have never had these types of issues before With other skates. I’ll give it one more go then I am going to have to go back to a Bauer/ccm skate. Maybe my foot is just odd. I’m a strong believer that if they just make the skate slightly shorter and somehow figure out the heel lock mechanism I’ll be fine.
Thanks for the response and the heads up about the clarino liner!
Just curious, but what size skate do you typically wear?
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On 1/5/2019 at 5:22 PM, Sk8Stk said:Please elaborate on what you think i'm saying is incorrect.
Also, everyone that has allowed me to adjust their skates further has been satisfied. There have been one or two customers that do not want to make adjustments (normally, these are customers who are against the brand from the starting point and want the skates to not fit when they arrive) and those are the only issues I have had. I spent a large portion of time with Rob last summer analyzing all of the aspects of your remade pair to ensure everything was made according to my specifications. You came in for the bake, and never reached out again, outside of on here. As I have said months ago to you on this forum, I am always available to work with clients to ensure the skates are made exactly to customer specifications. If there was an additional issue, let me solve it.
One important note as well, "pro - fit" is not a box to be checked during the fitting to request that less materials be used for a tighter fit. They are simply taking the materials and removing excess negative space - at the beer league / recreational level, this is often not as comfortable. However, I can easily accomplish this fit by myself in store during a tightening appointment. Other shops may not have this capability, so this is a helpful bit of information to know, but it does not necessarily carry as much weight as what has been alluded to here.
At the end of the day, you are open to your opinion, but the skates are custom made entirely to the skaters foot using Scott's patented lasting system. There will be information coming out in the next few weeks that will further reinforce this.
Seems like you are directing this towards me which is ridiculous. I found your shop after searching for the closest VH dealer (at the time) and decided it was worth the 300 mile round trip to get a pair of custom fit skates. I've been to your shop 5 or 6 times (at over $100 a trip in gas and tolls) to make "adjustments" to the first pair of skates. Spending over $500 on return trips showed my effort to work with these things. I had also asked you prior to making the second pair to take manual measurements (other than the brannock) to supplement the scan, to which you said were un-necessary and refused to take.
When I picked up the second pair of skates we did more than a bake. I was there for over 4 hours as you tried to tighten the heel over multiple adjustments. They didn't feel much different, but I figured the supposedly reduced volume may have helped. Skated on them the next day and the on ice feel was no different. Heel lift and lateral heel movement. Skates that are too small are workable, but skates that are too large are not fixable.
I didn't buy a custom pair of skates so that I could have a 12 month podiatry science experiment, I bought them so they would fit my foot shape (narrow heel, slightly wider forefoot) better than retail. I don't think I'm out of line for expecting this, especially with how the skates are marketed and the cost associated with them.
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25 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:You don't understand people's desire to defend a product/company when nonsense is being spewed about them, regardless of whether you own their product or not? Okay.
And once again you're speculating that we don't own them...
Giltis doesn’t own a pair.
IP, do you own a pair?
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13 minutes ago, Giltis said:It really sucks that you have had a bad experience with the skates, and in my opinion you should get a refund and everyone should have been able to walk away from the deal after a couple of tries to remedy the situation.
That said you can't spread rumours off of speculations, in just these two short posts you use 8 uncertain speculative statements. I have verified these statements in the past with a current employee to be untrue, and followed the process to verify that.
My disclosure is that I am considering purchasing a skate from them soon.
I made it very clear that those were my opinions and thoughts, so I am not “spreading rumors.”
I never understand people’s desire to defend a product/or company that they do not even own products produced by.
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48 minutes ago, Giltis said:You're creating a lot of FUD from speculations.
This is the exact rumour that made me reach out to a few TRUE employees who've told me that they make custom lasts out of every scan. In fact the process that I've followed was that of my teammate's who wears juniors sizing (she's short).
Possibly. Do you own a pair of true skates?
A custom last doesn’t exactly mean it’s made directly from your foot scan. I think they take an existing last closest to your scan and add material where you have weird bumps etc.
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Delete double post
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2 hours ago, smu said:Can you tell me what is the pro fit option is? I had a size 5 skate and now the equivalent or close True. Is there no such thing as a proper Junior last? Why would the heel area need to be narrowed, upon my request and not just part of receiving a completely normal Junior last or insole that you would think should be in stock for those smaller feet like mine? Not enough information is given and I have suggested that the customer should be told more so they know what is going on when a problem occurs rather than just fix an issue and usually told nothing. Finally I have a pair of skates that I wore yesterday for the very first time and if I had not been on top of things by measuring my own product I could easily have been using skates that were far different. I have received great help, but I needed to be involved! I am still not sure if I am a satisfied customer, good help is there, but it does feel like True needs some warm bodies to do better work from the start and not having to go to management for a decent pair of skates.
To clarify my take on the Jr last comment.
This is imo only-
True probably sells many more skates to people size 6 and up than 6 and under as most parents aren’t going to drop 800+ on their kids skates that are still growing. I think True has a number of lasts already made that they match the closest one to your scan and build your skates around that. I’m saying that they probably have a higher quantity of lasts to pick from in a size ten to accomodate different feet/shapes than they do in a size 5 simply because they have more customers in larger skates.
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4 hours ago, Sk8Stk said:The same people that are making your skates are making NHL boots - no separate workers at all. NHL players, in most instances, have had several pairs made for them in the past. As they have worn and adjusted these past pairs, all feedback is recorded in their file for future manufacturing reference. This information is used in the making of future skates for this player, so less adjustment is needed by the equipment manager / brand rep. No different in a retail skater ordering a second pair of boots a few years down the road - I always have to do less work the second time as True is so thorough with accomodation.
In a first pair of skates I make for a retail skater, I may need to spend 15-20 additional minutes after the bake tweaking the boots to their liking - this is what they are designed to allow. This has nothing to do with how the boots are made / measured at the factory, but instead accommodating for personal preference and comfort - every skater is different in this area. I want to echo what another poster said where most people posting here online are not the ones that love their skates and could never use anything else, as most of those people do not seek out forums for feedback. Most posters here are the ones either skeptical or encountering issues. From my experience, 1 in 20 is not even close to the issues I have encountered, and I would be pretty surprised to hear if that has been the case for even newer, less experienced pro shops. In the last 400 pairs made, I have only sent back about 4, maybe 5. These were some more peculiar cases with very large or small skaters that required a bit more attention by the factory - all customers were completely pleased with the remade pairs.
I won’t disagree that most people only bother to review things when they’ve had a bad experience, but LOL this is such BS.
Why isn’t everyone made aware of a “Pro fit” option? I wasn’t, even afer an ill fitting first pair. Also you cant claim everyone was satisfied after the remake. The second pair I had made fit no different than the first even after you spent two hours trying to narrow the heels. I gave up on them but I still say True does not have the capability to make a skate that propely fits a smaller foot with a narrow heel. Not “Truly Custom” as advertised.
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On 11/8/2018 at 6:14 PM, smu said:If it is me that you are referring to, yes I am very lucky to be able to send mine back twice after a very bad first fitting. The first pair was so bad it was thought I received some one else's scan. So they were sent back with a second scan along with a list of all the faults and errors that were in my first pair, like the rivets not being parallel, making the holders not centered and crooked, causing the bending of the steel. The width of the skate was so far off, it seems it would fit two of me and as I said before the skates were too long by an inch or so. That's enough to say about the issues at this moment! I want (no stuffing in my toe box).
What do I get back is the exact same skate with stuffing in the toe box and nothing else fixed at all. No explanation, nothing. I have photos before the skates went back and all the photos match the first pair. Nothing fixed and nothing read with respect to instructions, the second scan was not even reviewed or it could not have been!
I am saying this cannot be True, with a capital T. This can't be my second pair of skates? But they were, what were they thinking? I can't even comprehend it? The same skates back with nothing fixed, the same skates with all the problems and second scan! One thing was added, some pieces of 6 mm dense foam to make them feel smaller and let my toes "touch the end".
Argh! Now they are going back again and this will be my third try and suggesting very hard that they read the message and look at the photos of my old skates that go along with it and that I want a new pair the size of my size 5 Bauer. If they are a bit thicker and heavier I don't mind as long as they are not a long skate that needs a filler for me to skate.
You know, it might be that if the boot is any smaller I will get the Junior price $200 cheaper, if it is made to my size and not have that silly toe box making the skate longer and really not warranted at all. Dense foam so I could feel my toes touch is something! You do want to lightly touch the end of the toe box because once the laces are pulled the heel will move back and away from the toe and you get then a good heel lock.
With these long skates the pricing increased from a junior to a senior or $200 plus tax. This was new to me and the LHS, but I took it in stride and said if they work for my pronation, I did not care what they cost. I was a bit miffed at this approach when I saw how large my skates were and how long the toe box was, no wonder I was charged more, by design IMHO, but I wanted my pronation gone!
They adjust the price by what ever size holder fits the boot. Apparently my runner or steel that fits the holder was 8 mm longer than my last X 90 Bauer, but I believe the old Bauer boot was at least an inch shorter over all.
My thoughts are that True's idea to stretch the toe box makes for a lot of extra capital and that size easily put me into a senior. No wonder they are trying to get me some nice foam for all the space in the toe box. This really though does not explain all the other issues that just were not fixed!
In order to be returned to True I had to at least try the skates on the ice (both pairs to this point)and then indicate how I felt with them. Even though they are 1 or 2 sizes to big, I did have a better time than my old skates as the True skates took my pronation problem away. But the holders and blades felt odd and their large size was getting in the way, but again my pronation was gone. I did fall a few twice directly related to the bowed blades / holder problems and did hurt my already bad left shoulder twice and there was a few other easy falls, but related to normal moves, but ended up on the ice Thinking about the holders, blades and huge size I did think "what if I slam into the end boards" I could have easily gone head first into the boards and that would have been a much larger issue.
I now await for my third pair and hope it is almost an overnight turnaround kind of thing since it is the third try. I missed enough hockey as it is.
SMU your story sounds a lot like mine. We have similar size feet (I wear either 4.5 or 5 in Bauers) with a narrow heel. The first pair I got were humongous, and the second pair were only slightly reduced in volume. The heels in both pair were too wide. I think True is incapable of making a skate with a narrow enough heel in smaller sizes. After reading many posts, it seems that the larger the skate, the less fit problems people generally have. I also believe their lasts are not "true to size" meaning that half sizes are just shortened or lengthened instead of the whole last being resized. I'm looking forward to hearing how yours turn out, I wish you better luck than I had.
A thought on pronation-
After switching back to Bauers and eventually a new pair of Vapors, my theory is that True skates fit much tighter ABOVE your ankle and that combined with their stiffness is how they eliminate/reduce pronation. I felt this difference immediately when switching back to Bauers.
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46 minutes ago, Santos L Halper said:.....I know you're not equating what I do as a coach with 'public skates with [your] GF'.
🤨
No no no, that is not how I intended it to be taken haha
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14 hours ago, Santos L Halper said:The Fitting/Ordering Process:
As mentioned above, I was scanned in Canada by an ACTUAL TRUE EMPLOYEE, not a LHS employee. Does this matter? Maybe. I don't know. However, I presume that, as a representative of his company, he actually knows what he's doing. When scanning, he also took pictures of my feet and noted some areas where I have had discomfort in the past. Additionally, I filled out a form where I noted my height, weight, current skate size and model, blade holder size, etc...etc...etc...
Now then, there has been much consternation as to whether or not True offers different models of their skate - while I can't definitively answer that; I CAN tell you that, as part of the process, I was asked if I wanted the 'pro' fit or the 'retail' fit. I asked what the difference was and was told that they're "basically the same skate", but the pro fit is designed to eliminate as much negative space as possible in the boot; while the retail fit leaves some room for thicker socks, etc...since I HATE negative space in my skates, I asked for the pro fit. Now, as mentioned earlier in the thread, I do have an acquaintance that works at a big box LHS, but since I didn't order my skates from him, I've tried to avoid talking in too many specifics about the actual process of ordering True skates from them. Put differently, I do not know if you can walk into an LHS or a True fit center and ask for a 'pro fit' skate. However, it was an option offered to me and I bring it up because it's possible that my experience may differ from that of another skater as a result of my being offered that option.
Anyway. Moving on.
It seems like you get a totally different experience with True Skates depending on which retailer you go to. I was never made aware of two different fit profiles even after having a second pair made for me due to the first pair having too much negative space, and too much instep depth. The second pair feels no different! Who orders custom skates and still wears thick socks anyway????
I think a lot of people (myself included) give these skates so many chances and tinker with them so much because they are so expensive that we just want to find a way to make them work. Lets be honest, if you walk into a store and 2 out of 3 skates you try on have HEEL LIFT, you're not going to even mess with those two pairs of skates. When you drop 800+ on skates you couldn't even try on before buying, and they're delivered with one of the biggest possible flaws you could have with a skate (heel lift) you're going to try and make it work.
I agree with you that if you just skate casually, some of these problems don't rear their head. Mine are very comfortable for public skates with my GF or if I was a coach, but I didn't drop nearly a grand on skates for that. I wanted something that locked my foot in for quick directional changes and acceleration. I ordered a pair of Corvette's and got stuck with a roached Buick.
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3 hours ago, flip12 said:Did you ever try the skate with two footbeds in? It sounds like the heel pocket is too high. In my opinion, lowering the facing won't address the fit all the way around your foot. If the volume is too high overall, the other areas that can't be cinched to your foot with laces will still be sloppy.
Yep, I have been skating with two insoles in the skates since I’ve had them. I even tried 3 at one point to take up some of the extra volume. That didn’t seem to help, so I went back to two.
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On 8/22/2018 at 8:13 AM, flip12 said:How's the heel lock after this intervention?
A little better, but it still isn't what it should be for this level of skate. I'm going to figure out how much I want the facing shortened and have True make the modification.
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Here's an update from my previous posts. I used a pair of thinner tongues I had laying around to re-bake the skates so that they would wrap more and give me a tighter fit, along with clamping and using tensor tape. They still could be a little tighter with less negative space, but they are better than before. One strange thing about these skates is that the looser I tie them the better they seem to feel. True has offered to shorten the facing on the skates if I can't get them just right.
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Anyone know where to find oval laces anymore? My last set of elite's have bit the dust and I'd like to get another pair but I think they discontinued them.
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1 hour ago, navy21 said:Seems counter-intuitive to do this to a custom skate known for it's "wrap" but after my heel lift issues improved some with skipping the top eyelet (thanks everyone) I decided to mess around with a heat gun.
I noticed that the ankle at the very top of my old supremes was splayed out wide, and I never had heel lift issues (despite having at least the same amount if not more dead space than the trues) So, I decided to open up the "wrap" at the very top of the True boots slightly, and this seemed to help even more. Noticed virtually no heel issues during the first skate with them.
I actually think the conforming wrap wasn't allowing me to flex forward enough and almost acting like a hinge point. Instead of flexing forward and my heel driving back, I was essentially levering on the front of the boot and bringing my heel up.
Dont' know if this makes any sense, or if I just got lucky....but these two tricks seemed to have helped significantly and thought I would pass it along.
I think you're onto something here! I noticed the same thing when comparing them to my old Bauer One.9's.
The first time I skated in my VH/True's I laced them all the way up and felt like I was in casts. I have no idea how people can skate like that. If I get my heel lift issues sorted, I could probably skate two eyelets down because of how stiff they are.
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18 hours ago, navy21 said:I have had more issues than I would have expected with my skates, but have recently found a happy medium between comfort-performance.
This is the oart that really pisses me off about these things, and I’m reading it in this thread from more people than just you. For $800+ and a custom boot, nobody should have to constantly tinker like this. I’m left thinking that these skates are not as custom as they are marketed.
I’ll let you guys know how the rebake goes.
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24 minutes ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:I have done a few pairs of Ture/VH skates and I have yet to have a pair not close in tighter than that? What temp and length in the oven did they do?
No idea on temp (graf oven), but they were in for a good 10 mins. I got them from Westside, so I’d assume they knew what they were doing.
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24 minutes ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:Sorry I mean in this picture there is no holder on the boot. Have these been taken prior to heating and blade installation? Do you have an updated picture now with tongue in and so on? Also do you not wear any socks?
The holders are on the boots in all of the pics. I took the pictures last night.
I don’t wear socks, I tried a pair of stable 26’s with these and they didn’t make a difference. I like to feel connected to the boot.
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6 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:Are these pictures of the boot only with no holder on?
Have they been heated yet?
No, I have LS2 holders on these and have been skating on them for about 3 months. They were heated at the shop when I picked them up.
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18 minutes ago, start_today said:Apologies for being a negative Nelly, If those were pics of a retail boot, I think the general consensus would be that you need an entirely different model.
What did they change between the first pair and the second pair you had made? Did either True or of the shop ask to see your feet in the boots before they remade them? To me, seems like the onus should be on the "experts" (them) to help diagnose the problem, before remaking custom skates. But, being that they have already made a second pair of boots, I wonder if they would do a third pair to address this?
They took a few pics of my feet in the old boots, and that was about it. I was told that they would reduce the instep depth. Wish I would have taken measurements of the old pair to compare.
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6 hours ago, mojo122 said:The above product looks like it would help take up some of the high volume that boot has. My concern with trying to have it wrap more over the top of your foot is that there would be too much wrap which can inhibit the boots' ability to flex forward properly and also lead to the boot breaking down prematurely. Just somewhat disconcerting to have to drop another $30 dollars on top of what you paid for customs. Maybe True has a thicker tongue they can send you instead.
I agree, I'm concerned if these "wrap" tight enough that I won't have any forward flex. The boots are already extremely stiff.
5 hours ago, Nicholas G said:We do a lot of True skates and I haven't seen a pair fit this strangely ever. There is definitely too much depth in that boot, almost like fitting someone who needs a FT1 in a Ribcor... Have you shared these pics with True directly or only the shop?
I haven't shared these pics with anyone other than you guys so far. I've been thinking I'm crazy over the past few months since the second pair fit the same way after they re-measured me. I'll be emailing these to True directly after this post.
Here are a few more pics to show how "roomy" they are. To those of you that have a good pair, do you have this much room on the sides of your feet too?
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9 hours ago, navy21 said:http://www.tognar.com/the-eliminator-custom-tongue-shims/
Maybe give these a try. I have similar issues ---skinny ankle with a low volume (but mine are wide too) foot. Luckily, it's less of an issue in my skates. Ive used the product above for ski boots and they work really well, but they are fairly thick, especially over the forefoot. You could always trim that though....
Sounds a lot like my feet. Narrow ankles and a wider than avg forefoot. That foot shape pushed me into customs. I was in Bauer Supremes for 15+ years before I started this adventure.
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On 7/25/2018 at 9:48 PM, Vet88 said:The problem with adding layers under the foot is it starts to push the heel out of the heel socket.
I'd be pissed too, something somewhere has gone horribly amiss. Unless you have asked for a strange custom fit, either the shop has screwed up with the scan / measurements or True have got something wrong with the fit. Any fitter worth his salt would look at this and wonder why.
On thinking back to the True skates I was looking at last month, the eyelets had significant wrap on them. I had to turn my foot sideways to get into the boot. Comparing those to yours and the straight sidewalls you have, it's almost as if True didn't finish the fit and wrap the eyelets over the top of your foot. Maybe that is what they will suggest, whatever it is those photos tell a sad story and hopefully True will be able to put it right.
Edit - Ha, just seen the 2 previous posts and we all seem to be on the same page re the wrap.
I totally agree with the part about adding insoles. I’m going to try a rebake per everyone’s suggestions and wrapping them. I wish someone had one of the old Tacks machines around here that I could use.
METAL TIPPED HOCKEY LACES
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I want oval laces!