squashguy

that's absolutely right, you need to be in the center of the dressed hollow, maybe not the exact center of the wheel. The wissota skate holder does have cam adjustments that will adjust the left/right height. I find I only need to readjust that if I drop the holder on the floor and it goes out of whack. The tri-lie makes that easier to adjust. I'd say as long as you're getting a flat bottom on your fbv, your pitch knob is set right and you will only need small adjustments with the other two knobs. I only started chiming in on this when I thought klemer's pitch was way off like mine was (on the X01)

i believe this is the system that Fleming Gray came up with on their old machines, but has a clamp that clamps from the top. Unless the bottom clamp is adjustable, the problem is that not all skate blades are the same thickness and a thicker blade will be too high on the wheel. There are some holders that clamp from both sides, so all blades will be centered, but definitely not on a low-priced machine. It's easy to get a device that's centered on the wheel, the key is to get the blade centered in the device to within thousandths of an inch.

If a 1/2" hollow requires the holder to be adjusted in one dimension (height). The wissota actually changes pitch to achieve the height change but this will only work for round hollows. The FBV requires adjustment in two dimensions (height and pitch). The Blackstone has three knobs, supposedly the front two change only height, and the single one changes pitch, but in reality changing height a lot also changes the pitch slightly. When i had my XO1 shipped to me with the sticker saying 'don't adjust the pitch knob, it's aligned for hockey skates', my holder was so low, the skate blade pointed up at the wheel. I could still get even edges with a 1/2" radius, but I get the same problem you have with fbv cuts. I had to turn the pitch knob like 30 turns to get it even near the same height of the wheel. Basically you want the bottom of your skate blade to point exactly at the flat and perpendicular to the flat of the FBV. The good thing is, once you have your pitch set, you should just need to make small height adjustments. This is why the wissota can get away with tilting the holder to get even edges, but think about an imaginary skate blade that's REALLY tall, say one inch from the blade to the holder. If the holder is tilting the blade down, you could get even edges in the center of the blade, but on either side the edges will be uneven because the blade is contacting the wheel higher. I do like what GSH13 is trying to do because he's trying to adjust the height only, not the pitch, and this should help the above problem, however GSH, correct me if i'm wrong, but if the back piece is stationary, the front two knobs still adjust the pitch slightly as well as height.

Klemer, chances are that your skate holder is off pitch. I know if you hold a flatedge on the blade and have a light behind it, you can see how the fbv looks and whether the flat part is flat and if the fangs are even. If the skate holder is at the right height, but the pitch is off, you will end up with a deeper flat on one side. If the pitch is right but the height is off, you'll get a flat bottom, but the edges will be off. what kind of customization have you done to your wissota? I've built a profiling/contouring apparatus for mine.

You don't need to buy a whole new machine, look at this http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=62413...p;highlight=fbv

Not sure how intellectual property rights apply either. The flat bottom vee is a great idea and kudos to Blackstone for implementing it. However machinists have been doing this for years. Just google "diamond roller dresser" and you'll come up with plenty of diamond dusted shaped that can be used as a negative or positive to make a shape, or in this case, make a shape in a stone, which then makes the shape in something else. Blackstone would still be selling the product of the spinner, but could they require you to buy a machine or a $1700 assembly? Trying to think of a similar example in retail, wasn't there something with Tuuk blade patents? As for the wearing of the spinners, I bet if you go across the wheel rather than straight at it, you can get a nice light touch on the wheel, similar to touching a skate to the wheel to get a witness mark.

nice idea, not sure about the price tag though

yeah, but i paid $900 for a Wissota, dressed it once, and it was fine, and that's with a 7" wheel, which is more than twice as large as the 4" wheel. That means it will have about 3 times the moment of inertia compared to a small wheel, even after taking rpm's into consideration. If anything the smaller wheel should be easier to balance, or with the same tolerances should be better balanced than a large wheel. Shame a $900 machine be rendered 'cheap' or 'low-end' because a $10 wheel can't be drilled true. I know I do a better sharpen with my wissota than some places can with a $5000 system.

Yes, I definitely had wheel hop, which I attributed to an unbalanced wheel. It must be pretty bad if it's happening on such a small wheel. I was either drilled off center or the wheel is crap. I tried loosening and tightening the wheel in a different orientation, it only helped a little. I have no idea about where their machines are made or put together. I'm just commenting on how I received the machine, and how many calls had to be made to Blackstone to get the machine working the way it should (and it still doesn't). I would call this a quality control issue.

Not too impressed with how the X01 came from the factory. The pitch was WAY off, the blade was visibly pointing upwards just to contact the wheel. Don't they check this for each machine before it leaves Blackstone? had to turn pitch like 20 turns just to get the skate level to the wheel. The spinner was installed upside down with the c-clip up. Spring clip way too tight so the spinner wouldn't spin. One of the Steve's at Blackstone was very helpful in troubleshooting. I'm still undecided on how good the X01 is. Tabletop is not too slick. Didn't have this much trouble getting a Wissota working out of the box.

IMO, I've tried the flat bottom and at a much earlier time had my skates profiled by NoIcing. I have to say the most noticeable improvement has come from profiling. My skates had been sharpened so that the middle of the blade was higher than the ends, sort of a reverse rocker. I do feel more glide from the FBV, but I get more lateral stability from a normal hollow. Contouring improves your skating, cornering, stopping, etc. FBV only helps your glide, and hockey is not a sport sorely about gliding, it's about using your edges. Contouring will always be useful. FBV is a fad that may be here to stay.

No way will a sharpener temper the steel enough to cause it to break. First of all, poor sharpening might overheat a very small portion of the blade localized to the hollow. This might reduce the amount of time the blade will stay sharp, but not the overall strength of the blade. A blade breaking means it's too brittle. Brittleness is good for sharp, long-lasting edges (think ceramic knife), but a brittle material will crack when struck hard. Tempering due to overheating increases toughness, making the metal more bendable, but reduces the brittle strength that keeps a blade sharp (think steel knife that you have to keep resharpening). Could be a bad batch of blades that weren't heat treated properly.

I'm wondering if there's any data out there for time trials or other info. I remember when the speed skaters started using clap skates, they could take like 3 seconds off a 1500m race. Is there any similar data for FBV blades vs. hollowed ones?