Endorsement deals/masked equipment

[Cheechoo 0]

^, he knows what he is talking about, I think if he says it's and L-2 blade then it is an L-2 blade. Pro's don't get everything with retail designing.

That doesn't make any sense. Why do companies give equipment to the pros for free? Because they want Joe Shmo to run out and buy the same thing. So why would Mission (or Inno for that matter) make a pro stock blade without retail graphics?

[whbd18 0]

very little pros get equipment for free,the team still has to pay for it unless the person is sponsored by that company

[sherwood21 0]

^, he knows what he is talking about, I think if he says it's and L-2 blade then it is an L-2 blade. Pro's don't get everything with retail designing.

That doesn't make any sense. Why do companies give equipment to the pros for free? Because they want Joe Shmo to run out and buy the same thing. So why would Mission (or Inno for that matter) make a pro stock blade without retail graphics?

You're about a month late on that one. My answer was just an educated guess. There are so many variables applicable to the situation, there is no way of determining what it is, for sure. It could be a practice blade, it could be painted over by the pro, it could be painted over by the team, it could be painted over to avoid sponsorship problems, it could be for a low minor team, etc. Considering he is from Erie, it is probably from a low minor team or, the OHL team. One example of industry trickery is the Aluminum shaft Kenneth has up for grabs, Z-Bub graphics, but aluminum. It is that way in relation to pro specs, or marketing. Most likely the latter.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Why do companies give equipment to the pros for free? Because they want Joe Shmo to run out and buy the same thing. So why would Mission (or Inno for that matter) make a pro stock blade without retail graphics?

Like was mentioned earlier, not everyone gets "free" equipment, and some players/ teams are under contract to certain brands.

[Guest Marcelo Cordoba]

the team still has to pay for it unless the person is sponsored by that company

Incorrect statement. All teams pay regardless of whether a player endorses a company or not.

[Cheechoo 0]

very little pros get equipment for free,the team still has to pay for it unless the person is sponsored by that company

So Hull goes to Easton and says "I want a Stealth". Easton's response will be "Well Brett, we don't currently sponsor you, so we'll send you a Stealth and please submit our invoice to the Red Wings equipment manager."

Yeah right........ <_<

[mickz 107]

Just so happens I was talking to a friend who's playing for the Vancouver Giants next season about equipment. He says that they get free stuff because the Giants are sponsored by RBK. They're all required to wear RBK helmets, gloves, pants and use RBK sticks. For skates the player can wear whatever he wants and Reebok will buy it for them, even if they are Bauer Vapor XXX or a brand not owned by Reebok. He just told me that it's hard to get extra free equipment. Reebok will give each player 3 sticks and replace the sticks individually if they break. Reebok also won't buy players brand new skates unless their old ones are really beat up. My point is that even players at the WHL level get free equipment. So why wouldn't companies want to give NHL players free equipment too? It's literally free advertising.

[Guest Marcelo Cordoba]

So Hull goes to Easton and says "I want a Stealth".  Easton's response will be "Well Brett, we don't currently sponsor you, so we'll send you a Stealth and please submit our invoice to the Red Wings equipment manager." 

Yeah right........ <_<

Well first of all, Brett isn't too fond of OPS, despite companies continously making them for him.

Second, Easton, or any company for that matter, will make him one, maybe two "sticks" tops, before someone starts getting billed for them. By the way, ever notice that there are a lot of pro sticks on here and on eBay? How about in select retail stores?

Third, you guys are funny with all of your theories. Trust me, I know the system, how it works, and I still have A LOT to learn! To read what is posted here on this BB and others is quite hilarious.

[Guest Marcelo Cordoba]

Just so happens I was talking to a friend who's playing for the Vancouver Giants next season about equipment.  He says that they get free stuff because the Giants are sponsored by RBK.  They're all required to wear RBK helmets, gloves, pants and use RBK sticks.  For skates the player can wear whatever he wants and Reebok will buy it for them, even if they are Bauer Vapor XXX or a brand not owned by Reebok.  He just told me that it's hard to get extra free equipment.  Reebok will give each player 3 sticks and replace the sticks individually if they break.  Reebok also won't buy players brand new skates unless their old ones are really beat up.  My point is that even players at the WHL level get free equipment.  So why wouldn't companies want to give NHL players free equipment too?  It's literally free advertising.

Just because a player receives the equipment at no charge from the team to use doesn't mean someone isn't paying for it. RBK/THC is paying to have the exclusive contract. You think they aren't charging the teams for it? ROFLMAO!

Also, RBK/THC is most certainly NOT paying for skates from another manufacturer, guaranteed!

Lastly (this is going to be a very long winded lastly), being in the NHL is anything but free advertising for any company. Before you make one sample or send one rep on the road, you are paying the NHL $25k per category for an on-ice "marketing fee." Therefore, for RBK/THC or BHN, you are looking at $150k before you do anything.

Now, how many players do you have under contract? Let's take RBK/THC. How much do you think that collectively, they are paying to have Amonte, Crosby, Modano, Pronger, Bergeron, Cujo, Giguere, Datsyuk, Luongo, the Sedin's, Raycroft, and a few others (16 players total). My guess is that those 16 guys are going to cost them in the area of $2 million US per season, although, I have a feeling that it is closer to $2.5 mil US.

Next, put 8 reps on the road to service these players, and try to sell to hundreds of others. Those 8 guys will cost approximately $900k-$1 million US in salary, plus, $35k US or so in travel expenses (hotels, air, car rental, gas for rental, meals, mileage) each, and, I'll leave out any bonuses/commission that they might earn. Keeping up with the math?

The math stands at just over $3.5 million US and you have 16 players using your product in the NHL at this point. I am going to leave out the CHL contract because you only bring up the NHL in your statement.

For argument sake, I'm going to add an additional $100k US in samples and misc. expenses, bringing our total to $3.6 million US.

Now, let's back track this with sales. Each NHL player, goalies included, is worth approximately $10k US in sales. With 30 teams and 25 players per NHL roster, you have 750 skaters. Therefore, for THC/RBK to just break even, they would have to get 50% of the NHL using all of their products, not just one item here, one item there! Currently, only one company comes close to doing this! I'm sure you can figure out who.

So, for argument sake, let's say that THC/RBK will have, with goalies, 150 players total. That adds up to $1.5 million US in sales revenue. Keep in mind that they also sell the teams all of their game and practice socks and jerseys, which all fall under a separate deal. So, looks like your "free advertising" is costing you somewhere in the area of $2.1 million US. Even if they get 200 players, they are still $1.6 mil US in the hole, hoping their retail line sells.

These numbers are all approximations. Is it worth it to spend the money? Well, you tell me. That $2.1 million US is an advertising expense that they hope you as a consumer will buy into.

OK, I've typed too much. Goodnight.

[JR Boucicaut 3770]

Any endorsement deal between a mfgr and a player is monetary (although players usually try to get some kickers in the deal, like vacation trips and plasma TVs and stuff like that.) Equipment is not free. The team pays for it.

Okay I have to edit my post now.

Yeah, what he said.

[mickz 107]

I'm just trying to share what my friend on the Giants says. He might be wrong but I still think he's a pretty legit source since he's actually in the Giants organization. He's only had 3 games in the dub so far before he's on the regular roster next season. Give us young guys a break.

[Guest Marcelo Cordoba]

I'm just trying to share what my friend on the Giants says.  He might be wrong but I still think he's a pretty legit source since he's actually in the Giants organization.  He's only had 3 games in the dub so far before he's on the regular roster next season.  Give us young guys a break.

Hmmmmmmmm, legit source is 3 games played in the WHL? No dice mickz; sorry.

Like I said, I've been doing this for awhile now, and despite still needing to learn a lot, I at least know how the system works.

Tell your boy to worry about playing and not what he gets for free.

[JR Boucicaut 3770]

Obviously your friend is misinformed. Yeah, to him, it's free, but someone has to foot the bill. And it's the team.

[mickz 107]

He probably has been misinformed since he played with the Coquitlam Express in the BCHL last year and he had to supply his own equipment. The Giants is his first team that he's played for that is sponsored. Thanks for clearing things up then.

[Project824 0]

Easy fellas,

Obviously you guys know, but no offense, no need to make the kid feel dumb about it. His friend gets hockey equipment, he doesn't pay for it, so he tells his friends it's free, which to him, it is. Your post was very educational and I'm sure has opened a lot of people's eyes to what goes on behind the scenes in that segment of the hockey business. But these guys are young, give em a break. When we were 18 we thought we knew everything too, and when we didn't, we thought about it and made up an answer (at least that's what I did).

As a coach, my guys do the same thing, the school buys sticks and equipment and I've lost track of how many times we've gotten a shipment and the guys will run in and say "Sweet, free sticks!" They're not paying, so they're free. They're the same guys that don't understand why we're so jacked when they get pissed at practice and break a new OPS over the cross bar. They're free, after all. Except we know 100 bucks just went out of the budget for his temper tantrum. We could require that everyone get a Nike tattoo and still have to pay for stuff.

[KillerCarlson 0]

Hey Marcelo!

Always been curious about player endorsement deals...

If you have 16 guys raking in 2 Mil per year by being sponsored, that is $125 k per year per man. I know you said that each player in the NHL is worth about $10k in sales per year - I assume that is an average - some make more, some less.

My question is...are these 16 guys generating $125 k in sales? Near it? Wouldn't that be a loss for the Company if one guy is getting paid $125 k, yet only generating $50 k in sales? What would be the benefit of sponsoring someone who is "taking" more than they are "giving" - revenue-wise? I'm probably missing some critical point here - so feel free to educate me!

Thanks!

[Guest Marcelo Cordoba]

Hey Marcelo!

Always been curious about player endorsement deals...

If you have 16 guys raking in 2 Mil per year by being sponsored, that is $125 k per year per man. I know you said that each player in the NHL is worth about $10k in sales per year - I assume that is an average - some make more, some less.

My question is...are these 16 guys generating $125 k in sales? Near it? Wouldn't that be a loss for the Company if one guy is getting paid $125 k, yet only generating $50 k in sales? What would be the benefit of sponsoring someone who is "taking" more than they are "giving" - revenue-wise? I'm probably missing some critical point here - so feel free to educate me!

Thanks!

They are usually based on how a company feels a player can impact their sales, as well as performance. I know of players whose contracts have a smaller base amount with performance incentives.

With regards to the $10k in sales each, that is the equipment that they themselves would use and the team would buy.

[KillerCarlson 0]

With regards to the $10k in sales each, that is the equipment that they themselves would use and the team would buy.

Critical piece of info...thanks!

[Jason Harris 31]

Marcelo, that was an outstanding post last night breaking down the math.

[Cheechoo 0]

With regards to the $10k in sales each, that is the equipment that they themselves would use and the team would buy.

So do you know of what companies estimate as their rate of return on their investements? What I mean is, does Mission for example know approximately how many M-1 and L-2 they sell purely because they sponser Brett Hull? I guess that would be impossible without surveying every buyer as to their reasons for buying a certain product.

[Guest Marcelo Cordoba]

So do you know of what companies estimate as their rate of return on their investements? What I mean is, does Mission for example know approximately how many M-1 and L-2 they sell purely because they sponser Brett Hull? I guess that would be impossible without surveying every buyer as to their reasons for buying a certain product.

I guess you would have to ask each company that question. I remember when I worked with Hullie, we had people call customer service specifically asking for the "shaft Brett Hull is using", down to the flex, when it wasn't even available to the public.

You are probably right that you would have to poll each individual buyer to see why they bought that particular product.

[Guest Marcelo Cordoba]

Marcelo, that was an outstanding post last night breaking down the math.

Thank you Jason and I think that it might show as to why a company like Salming might have some second thoughts as to whether you get in the NHL marketing program or not.

[Cheechoo 0]

I remember when I worked with Hullie, we had people call customer service specifically asking for the "shaft Brett Hull is using", down to the flex, when it wasn't even available to the public.

That is exactly what I meant by my earlier comment about why I found it hard to believe that a company would choose not have retail graphics on a pro blade.

It also seems that your excellent comparison of what it costs a company to open the door to NHL palyers and what they earn in return would really need to include a calculation of potetial increased retail sales to talk about whether companies are loosing or making money on endorsements.

By the way, I'm not as knownledgabe about inside scoop of NHL palyer and supplier relations as you are, but my father was an agent for Formula 1 drivers for a long time and I know for a fact that neither the drivers nor the teams ever paid a dime for anything the drivers wore or used. Quite the opposite, companies outbid themselves to make sure the driver would wear their helmets, gloves, sneakers, etc., always making sure that the company logo was big and clear.

[Jason Harris 31]

Thank you Jason and I think that it might show as to why a company like Salming might have some second thoughts as to whether you get in the NHL marketing program or not.

You're quite correct about that.

It's relevant because Salming signed agreements with two Swedish players recently, and has had promising conversations with other players over in Europe. But that obviously is only part of the equation. I had heard the number was $18K per product category, but had never checked with the NHL to confirm. Now, the company is looking at a $50K "thank you" fee to the NHL.

It will be interesting to see how it evolves. As the US distributor, I recognize that I would be one of the larger beneficiaries of the exposure, so I feel I should be sharing the expense with Sweden and Canada. However, I can't lie, there may be money in my budget for advertising, but there's not that much!

[JR Boucicaut 3770]

I would think that F1 would be a little different as the car is the main piece of equipment and the manufacturer is part of the team...when you have a ton of engines lying around as backups, who cares about gloves and sneakers? :)