Hossa or Spezza?

[Eazy_b97 1]

Sundin can't play twice

[mack 44]

Why not, I'd double-shift him too.

[Vash 0]

Alright I'm going to end this right now. This is completely ignoring the player's potential because its just that, potential. Also keep in mind that there are twice as many wingers in the league as centers.

Who I would want for the 06/07 season at wing before Hossa-

1. Jagr

2. Ovechkin

3. Iginla

4. Zetterberg

5. Naslund

6. Gagne (maybe)

7. Cheechoo (maybe)

Who I would want for the 06/07 season at center before Spezza

1. Thornton

2. Staal

3. Sundin

4. Sakic

5. Sundin

6. Crosby (gasp)

7. Forsberg

8. Richards

9. Datsyuk

10. Marleau

11. Lecavalier (maybe)

I think the top 3 is pretty accurate but after that i think it gets iffy. I think Zetterbergy is good but i'm not sure if he's better than Hossa. Same applies for those below him. I think Gagne is just pure speed while Hossa is speed mixed with being a great stickhandler. I refuse to believe Cheechoo would have had his season w/o Thornton on his line. Of course just my opinion.

This has sparked quite a debate i have to say.

[McCabe24 0]

Hossa, playmakers are more rare but I still don't consider Spezza an elite top tier player and fail to remember any mention of getting equally talented and suitable linemates.

[McCabe24 0]

I watched Spezza play maybe 10-15 times last year with being in the Leafs division and two rounds of playoffs, in my opinion he is awesome with the puck and can set someone up from anywhere. However, aside from great vision and highlight reel plays he brings very little to a team. If that seperates him from his peers in your mind then so be it, for every behind the back pass he makes to Alfie there will be two Heatley tap ins on rebounds or missed point shots.

I watched Hossa play for maybe 10-15 minutes this year but when he played for Ottawa, mainly the 2003 playoffs and 2004 series with Toronto, he was the most dangerous player on the ice (aside from Lalime) and I can't even remember what players they had on his line.

[McCabe24 0]

I don't see the logic in bringing up a debate between the players in questions in the first place, especially with the open ended nature of the argument that is clearly present, but I threw my two cents in because I am bored at work.

It's not like we are making important scouting decisions for a team in a position to acquire either or both of the players so our judgment is really pointless anyways.

[kosydar 0]

Regarding the age and the future- while it has become a major issue in who is the better player, it shouldn't be. To be completely fair we have to judge them from what they've shown to be, not what they can be. Over the course of their careers Spezza will probably put up more points than Hossa. But thats all we can say about that. In my opinion Hossa is a top 5 winger throughout the entire league. He is one of the best goal scorers period. That is much more attractive to me than a great playmaker (most likely because that is what my team has lacked for so long). Extrapolating on someone like Spezza's career is ultimately pointless because there is no way of proving anything. You can show he had great numbers in juniors, but then again so did Pat Falloon. He has had a good first few years in the league (on one of the best offensive teams, playing on the best line in the NHL). Yet all of this stuff which indicates that he will have a great career certainly doesn't guarantee anything.

[kosydar 0]

Fair enough, but he scored half as many goals as Hossa did. I know the old adage "an assist is equal to a goal", but in this case I don't think it is. Just like you said we should discount some of Hossa's assists for playing on Kovalchuk's line, I think its more than fair to do the same with Hossa for playing with Alfie and Heatley. What I'm really saying is, this may just be Spezza's prime. For all we know he could crash and burn next season and spend most of it in Binghamton or in the press box.

[Adam91 0]

I'd have to go with Hossa because offensivly he is a complete all around player. Much like Elias there isn't anything offensivly that he doesn't do well.

With Spezza you have a very good playmaking centre but look who he plays with. Not that who Hossa was playing was to shabby. but look at Spezza almost any top 2 centre on any team in the league could have put up those numbers when being given a chance to play those minutes in that system. I really could see a Mike York or Brendan Morrison type centre being able to put up points in the neighbourhood of Spezza. I don't know if Spezza is strong enough to be a centre and Hossa isn't given nearly enough credit for being a legitamite power forward in the NHL, just because he's a euro it seems he can't be thought of that way but if you look at a ton of his goals they're scored from going out wide and cutting across the crease with a dman on his back.

Just because Don Cherry says he's a pussy euro and should be held responsible for Ottawa's early playoff exits does not make him that.

I think a better debate would be Hossa or Heatley. I'm still taking Hossa

[Eazy_b97 1]

70+ assists as a 23 YO who is not in his prime yet is pretty damn elite where I come from.

And he would have had 85 if he played a full season. 11 away to Joe Thornton. Hmmm...Very impressive if you ask me. He would have been 3rd in the league with 108 pts if he played a full season as well. lol, some of you are nuts.

And the not being clutch excuse does not have as much merit after last year's performance. This is the present...Not 5 years ago.

You basing prime on his age rather than situation. The kids been full grown since 15 and been NHL ready since 17.

He may have had that many assists had he stayed healthy, but how many would Thornton have had playing with Cheechoo all year? How would Spezza fair without Alfie and Heater? He didn't come alive until Bochenski was moved off the line.

He hasn't been clutch... ever! He's failed at every attempt on a team expected to win it all. Whether it was juniors or the NHL, he hasn't come through. He's been put in a major players role, but hasn't come up with it. Maybe I'm looking at the expectation vs. production rather than straight production vs. production, but there are alot of things wrong with Spezza. There aren't alot of things wrong with Hossa's game. He's a pretty sound player. You can look at Spezza and say his age is yougn and he'll grow into a more rounded game all you want, but the fact is he hasn't really evolved at all in his career during the last 5-6 years.

[mack 44]

Spezza's 5g-9a in 10 playoff games is better than any of Hossa's playoff runs.

[Eazy_b97 1]

NNHL vs. Old NHL.

[mack 44]

Okay, even as the biggest abuser of that argument I can't see that applying here.

[Eazy_b97 1]

How can you not see that applying here? Using Spezza's playoff totals, which are largely PP based, in a NNHL full of PP's against Hossa's clutch and grab NHL where he was largely ridden by Markov and Yusky to the net all series long?

[mack 44]

Because then I'd have to mention Hossa's best +/- in the playoffs being a stellar +2. Of course that point is as irrelevant as the new NHL point because this whole argument can't be proven.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Fair enough, but then you'd also have to account for Hossa causing all the grief during the playoffs and carrying the 2nd/3rd line on his shoulders. Instead, you are comparing Spezza, who played with Heater and Alfie (a luxury Hoss never had) +/- with his.

[mack 44]

Wait, was he with Scott Evil then? I swear on the OLN broadcasts I rarely heard Alfredsson's name mentioned but then again it was the playoffs.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Alfie played all season with Hoss and Heater. He played a game or two without them during the playoffs once Buffalo took control of the series, but they ended up back together. They spent the majority of the playoffs together.

[mack 44]

Damn, after checking out Alfie's '02-'03 playoffs I think everyone can at least agree on a Hossa>Alfredsson.

[Eazy_b97 1]

When he came into the NHL he wasn't on a line with Alfie and Hossa or else his point totals would have been much higher.

You are just comparing playoff numbers, not the actual impact they've had. Hossa was a constant force, Spezza was not. Hossa carried a line, Spezza, did not. Hossa isn't a physical force in hitting, but he's almost impossible to move off the puck and very difficult to deal with when he drives the net.

[Hockeyman9621 0]

If were talking playoff performance, look at Spezza in the AHL in 05. Led the league in scoring but then choked in the playoffs with 1G and 3A in 6 games.

[kasparaitis 0]

1. He's Euro

2. He's not Canadian

3. This is Sarcasm.

Hossa played with Kovalchuk on the PP, and thats about it. Early in the season they tried playing him with Kovalchuk, but took him out and put petrovicky on the line instead. Hossa played most of the games with Bondra until he got hurt, and then Kozlov. I can't recall who centered that line.

[Eazy_b97 1]

I think Mellanby centered the second line.

[mack 44]

They had Mellanby centre a line over Stefan? Well he was probably concussed anyway.

[djinferno 2]

Hossa makes plays

Spezza makes plays and makes people better, I go with Spez...