question about skate sharpening

[earth4x 0]

I've always had my skate sharpened to a hollow that was called "normal" .. which is the standard hollow used by everyone who gets they're skate sharpened.

Now, since I'm starting to become a better skater, I want to make sharper turns. As of right now, when I take really sharp turns (the boot is actually sitting on the ice) I lose control and I feel like the steel isn't cutting the ice anymore.

At my LHS, they have 3 hollows, Normal, something in between and Extreme. Now I don't know what's the hollow for the Extreme method, but would it make a difference when I take sharp turns?

If it does make a difference, for somebody who has skated for a long time on a standard hollow, will it take a period of time to adjust to the deeper hollow? Or will it be just the same?

thanks !!

[Jason16 0]

That's quite odd of an LHS to label their hollows as opposed to giving actual numbers. Maybe you could inquire as to what they really are. It would be good to know for yourself and for others who are/will try to help you out with questions such as this one.

The trend seems to be going shallower not deeper. There could be a number of reasons as to why you're topping out on your turns. The most obvious one being that the height of the steel has simply been ground down from sharpening thus reducing the angle on contact.

The second reason could be fluctuations in ice temperature but that doesn't sound like it would be the case.

Having a deeper hollow will certainly give you much more bite than a shallower but realize that it will also impair your glide and perhaps your strides, it's a give and take scenario. I personally cannot go any deeper than 1/2, I feel like I'm skating on concrete; too much resistance.

Perhaps you could hone in on your technique, sharp turns involve a pivot foot and is done almost exclusively on your heel. Say for example you're making a sharp left turn the ball of your left foot actually raises having only your heel contacting the ice for a short moment before you recover and assume the new direction.

Maybe give that a shot. Wait around for some other members to chime in and offer some suggestions. Hope this was helpful

[DamnLocust 0]

forget the nomenclature used at your shop. god only knows what they mean by "extreme" If you want deeper, simply tell them you want to go deeper.

When you say you lose control, do you mean your skate slides out from under you, or your skates feel as though they're in a rut and keep turning, spinning you out of control and down onto the ice?

If the skate is sliding out from under you, it may be because of the boot contacting the ice. If it's the latter, your hollow may actually be too deep. A hollow that's too shallow will slide out, but not completely take your feet out from under you.

As far as the transition when changing to a deeper hollow, it should take 3-4 icetimes. Some will instantly like it, some need to work on it a bit. You will have less glide, which may make you a bit slower, and you'll have to move your legs more, but you will be able to cut sharper and harder. You'll need to sharpen your skates more frequently as well.

[earth4x 0]

forget the nomenclature used at your shop. god only knows what they mean by "extreme" If you want deeper, simply tell them you want to go deeper.

When you say you lose control, do you mean your skate slides out from under you, or your skates feel as though they're in a rut and keep turning, spinning you out of control and down onto the ice?

If the skate is sliding out from under you, it may be because of the boot contacting the ice. If it's the latter, your hollow may actually be too deep. A hollow that's too shallow will slide out, but not completely take your feet out from under you.

As far as the transition when changing to a deeper hollow, it should take 3-4 icetimes. Some will instantly like it, some need to work on it a bit. You will have less glide, which may make you a bit slower, and you'll have to move your legs more, but you will be able to cut sharper and harder. You'll need to sharpen your skates more frequently as well.

It feels like the skate slides out, it's like the steel isn't touching the ice anymore (it's probably touching but it's not cutting the ice deep enough) and then I'm pretty much trying to turn on the boot, which doesn't give me alot of grip :P

thanks for the comments thought!

[DamnLocust 0]

If it feels like your blade isnt on the ice anymore, that is definitely a possibility.

you may be leaning too hard in the turns, or as Jason suggested, your steel may be ground down too far. If you feel that your form is good and your steel isnt too low, you could have lifts installed between the boot and the holder for more clearance. Saku Koivu does this, it's mentioned in this thread.

[earth4x 0]

If it feels like your blade isnt on the ice anymore, that is definitely a possibility.

you may be leaning too hard in the turns, or as Jason suggested, your steel may be ground down too far. If you feel that your form is good and your steel isnt too low, you could have lifts installed between the boot and the holder for more clearance. Saku Koivu does this, it's mentioned in this thread.

If I show you a picture of my skates, would you be able to tell me if the steel is ground down too much?

- Edit : added pictures -

[riesman20 0]

You have plenty of steel left. Those look like they have only been sharpended 4 or 5 times.

[Jason16 0]

Did you have the skates punched out at all?

If not it could just be the fact that you are really leaning into your turns with your body instead of relying on your edges to do the turning. Try placing some emphasis on cross overs; really leaning into the turn (outside edge) to get to know the limits of your edges

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

Anything more than 3/8" of runner height is good. Anything lower than that, time for new steel.

[earth4x 0]

What do you mean having my skates punched out? I bought them about a year ago and broke them in by skating with them.

I just remembered something, when I'm skating forward, sometimes it'll do the same thing.. I will lose control of the steel edge and it looks like i'm skating on the boot.

Is it something wrong with my technique (it doesn't do it everytime... it's when I try to go real fast) or should I look into an heel lift?

[Jason16 0]

Some people have hot spots and have them alleviated by 'punching' or 'stretching' that particular area out.

It sounds like you're 'ankle skating' I can't be sure unless I see you skate. Either your sharpener is doing a horrible job by giving you inconsistent and uneven edges or you're pronating and have prematurely deteriorated the medial side of the boots. If it's the latter, you will have to have the holder re-alinged to the centre of your foot rather than the theoretical centre of the skate boots. Superfeet insoles would also be called for.

Based on your last tid bit of info, it sounds like a poor sharpening job.