New pads

[5hole 0]

Soooo iv been using Vaughn V3s for just over 2 years now, the shrinking has taken place, and theyre pretty beat down, so the time comes for some new pads. Iv been asking around and from what i hear the P3's are pretty nice. So heres the question, Iv been using Vaughns for about 4 years now, so would be the time to change up to Rbks, and if there is a big difference?

[Law Goalie 147]

There is an enormous difference in general, and, to be honest, too many specific differences to list.

The big one is that RBK Premiers (or Revokes, whatever) use an EPP foam core, which basically means they have ZERO vertical or lateral flexibility from the top of the shin down to the toe. They don't bend or move with your leg - they sit in front of it. Vaughn (I believe) still uses sheets of HD foam surrounded with shredded LD snake foam, which is why they're so delightfully flexible and responsive, and why they seem to shrink over time, as the shredded foam settles and the HD in the shin slips down into the ankle-break.

If you're looking for something that's kind of an evolved Vaughn Velocity, check out the Smith SP6000s. Pete Smith designed the original Velocity pads for Vaughn, and since then, he's been refining the design inside and out. His pads don't suffer from the classic Vaughn 'shrinkage', for one. They're also one hell of a good deal, especially when you consider that they're custom.

[DCott 0]

Soooo iv been using Vaughn V3s for just over 2 years now, the shrinking has taken place, and theyre pretty beat down, so the time comes for some new pads. Iv been asking around and from what i hear the P3's are pretty nice. So heres the question, Iv been using Vaughns for about 4 years now, so would be the time to change up to Rbks, and if there is a big difference?

Your first mistake is trying to generalize all pads into the same scale of good or bad quality. Yes the Vaughns are "nice", and so are the Reeboks. Just asking around among guys you play with, etc, only gives you biased opinions. Just about every goalie I've met that has new pads has the greatest pads ever assembled.

So, if this is the "time to switch to RBK" is entirely dependent on how you play the position. Pads are tools used to stop pucks, as LawGoalie said, the Reeboks tend to sit in front of you leg, while the Velocity will wrap around it. I won't advise one pad over the other without knowing your playing style. Evaluate how you use your pads to stop pucks, and try on both pads if possible.

Also, although it may not be apparent, there are pad manufacturers other than Vaughn and Reebok. The velocity if a hybrid pad, while the reebok is a butterfly pad. However, many, if not most, goalies would best be served by something in between those two extremes. Have a look around and don't narrow your search to just the two most popular pads.

[Oykib 0]

There is a huge difference between the two. My personal opinion is that the biggest difference between the two (Besides the sizing difference) is the quality. I have owned 3 pair of Vaughn's over the last 20 years so I am biased. My impression is that RBK are made with quantity first and quality second but I know that Vaughn has been outsourcing some of their pads overseas. At one time all Vaughn's equipment was handmade in Canada.

As DCott said there are some other pad manufactures out there. One of the best I have seen is Don Simmons, he will make a pad however you want and you cannot beat his quality. He is also 1/3 less in the price. Do you want a Vaughn leg channel with a RBK knee? He will do that for you and in the colour you want. They don't even take an order without speaking with the customer and they make sure that you will get exactly what you want, and that what you want you really need. I know some people that have even bought pads off Ebay used and he has repaired or replaced them for issues they have found.

[DCott 0]

There is a huge difference between the two. My personal opinion is that the biggest difference between the two (Besides the sizing difference) is the quality. I have owned 3 pair of Vaughn's over the last 20 years so I am biased. My impression is that RBK are made with quantity first and quality second but I know that Vaughn has been outsourcing some of their pads overseas. At one time all Vaughn's equipment was handmade in Canada.

Everyone makes stuff overseas, it's just the reality of economics. Vaughn, Reebok, and others make their pro level gear in Canada, and the senior level and lower gear elsewhere.

[Law Goalie 147]

I'm frankly not sufficiently well-versed in economics to assess the validity of this claim, but it has been said that making junior and intermediate pads (in particular) to pro-level standards was wasteful of man-hours and materials. The argument is that if you make a pair of kids' pads out of the best possible materials using the best available craftsman, those pads will not only be outgrown by the wearer, and several subsequent wearers, but will actually outlast their useful lifespan.

Take, for example, a pair of junior Vaughn pads from the pre-Velocity era. Provided they weren't stored in a mouldy basement, they're probably still just fine for use. But they're so utterly unlike everything else on the market that for a kid to start out wearing them will probably be detrimental. Not only that, but even at half their projected retail cost, they'd still be more than current offshore junior and intermediate gear. Expensive gear is right up their with availability and cost of icetime in terms of stunting the growth of the game; cheap gear means, in theory, more players.

Certainly, nobody will disagree that when dealing with adults who play regular hockey, even the best offshore-made gear won't hold up next to something from Lefebvre, Wilcox, Smith, etc. You also don't want to mess about with core protective (C/A, pants, jock) or helmets at the junior level, and I'm still not convinced by any of the offshore trappers I've tried. As far as pads and blockers are concerned, there is at least an argument to be made.

As a brand, Don Simmons has done an excellent job of keeping costs down on Canadian-made copies of popular gear and passing those savings on to their customers. That being said, there are far better options in terms of build-quality and design at or around the same price-point: Smith, Battram, Viper, McKenney, etc.

[DCott 0]

It is only possible to cut so much cost by sacrificing material quality. Without going overseas for cheaper labor, it would be impossible for OEMs to make the senior (non-pro) and junior level price point gear we have now. 10 years ago I don't remember lower price point gear, like the 7400, 9K/7K, etc being available. I don't believe that making Intermediate-Pro gear is wasteful, because pads of that size are more like to change hands than adult gear (i.e. hand-me-downs). The "he will grow out of them within a year" thought is what drives OEMs to focus on price point at that level to stay competitive.

[Law Goalie 147]

That's exactly what has been argued - offshore manufacturing is not only a necessity from a business standpoint, but a good thing for the game in general. A pad can only be handed down so many times before it becomes pointless. There's absolutely no reason for a ten-year old to be wearing 11" wide pads, but go back a few years and that's what you'll find. More to the point, it seems more and more that people who are in the business of selling used gear are giving it up.

My only personal reservation with offshore production is that I have a strong suspicion that it could be done here with a little more ingenuity. The Gatekeeper glove, for example, that Brian Heaton designed was a masterpiece of simple construction. Took minutes to assemble. That would seem the best approach: the price point gear should be made by the same people who make the pro gear, but its assembly should be simplified. Same thing with Smith's SP3000s - they were exactly the same as his other pads in terms of materials, but it took him a good bit less time to make them because of a few simple compromises (chiefly passing the stays through the face of the pad). The problem is that changes in design aren't sexy from a business perspective: it's not a five-year plan you can pitch to investors.

[DCott 0]

I like the idea of making some creative efforts to cut cost and keep manufacturing domestically. However, the reality is that people will buy the cheap pad that looks like the pro pad, instead of the one that performs like it. And coming up with a way to cheaply build quality gear takes up time and money that companies don't have the patience for.

[Law Goalie 147]

Sadly, it's true - economics of scale. It works for custom direct builders like Smith; it *should* work in principle for the bigger ones, but it doesn't.

Speaking of patience, that's another reason: it takes a great deal of time and research to find a company like Smith, determine that it's what you want, and place the order - as opposed to walking into a big-box store and buying your kid something off the rack that instantly satisfies both his and your idea of what a goalie pad should be.