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Skates for 10 year old


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#1 Gedbarchetta

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 05:05 PM

My son who has just turned 10 is ready for new skates he has in the past had trouble with new skates and what bothers him most are the ankle bones hurting,we had those skates both warmed up and
punched but still took some time for them not to bother him.He does have orthodics because he has flat feet that turn inward with very little arch.Are there any recommendations from anyone about
what brand of skate would suit his feet?

#2 starsfan71

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 05:09 PM

You do have him try on skates correct?
OJ didn't knife anyone on any of his TD runs either, but here we are, Dershowitz.-Mack
When they're that cheap and only have 1 pic, I'm imagining the smell of a wet dead hooker. Drewhunz

#3 porky45

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 05:54 PM

as mentioned above...have him try on some skate, chances are he will like rbks and ccms, but until you actually sit down and try the different brands on, there is no way of knowing for sure.

#4 Gedbarchetta

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 06:05 PM

haven't started the process but i remember with the skates that he had problems with he said they were fine until he started skating,he currently wears ccm tacks 952.We live in a small town so theres
not much selection to choose from.

#5 Darkbyte

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 07:36 PM

Yay for wacky anklebones.

Ive been trying on Swis Graf707s lately, but its 8-10 weeks between ordering a size to try on and them arriving.

The two part ankle bone thing is interesting. Despite the last pair of skates I tried on being around 1/2 a size too big, the ankle "pockets" sit a lot furter away from your ankle than other skates I have tried. The skate grips your foot and heel, rather than your foot, heel and ankle.

Ive done the whole baking/punching thing and it makes it bareable, but its never really quite right.

#6 starsfan71

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 07:39 PM

If you can post pictures of his feet some people might be able to help out.
OJ didn't knife anyone on any of his TD runs either, but here we are, Dershowitz.-Mack
When they're that cheap and only have 1 pic, I'm imagining the smell of a wet dead hooker. Drewhunz

#7 Gedbarchetta

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 07:56 PM

not sure how to put pictures on here,is it simple?

#8 starsfan71

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 08:12 PM

It used to be but some viruses attacked the sight it might be better to send a private message to JR
OJ didn't knife anyone on any of his TD runs either, but here we are, Dershowitz.-Mack
When they're that cheap and only have 1 pic, I'm imagining the smell of a wet dead hooker. Drewhunz

#9 MsConduct55

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 08:16 PM

If the skates turn inward (overpronate), you may look to see if your LHS does some shim work. I had a huge issue with pronation and looked into orthotics until JR looked the skates over and watched how I was standing. I needed 1/4" shims on the skates.

#10 goodguy

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 08:30 PM

Sounds like your kid is very similar to mine - almost flat footed and pronates alot - high instep - always a big deal to try to fit him in skates.

Since your kid is almost flatfooted, you probably dont want a high arch inside the skate or superfeet insoles. I kept trying to put superfeet in my kids skates thinking they would correct his inside lean due to pronation and they just enhanced it. This year I actually had some of the footbed cut out where his arch was and it corrected some of the problem as he was not pushing down as much on the arch are unnaturally. You might find with some brands of skate, he hits the side of the boot inside before he even gets down to the footbed and pushing down on it will squeeze the foot too much (too narrow a boot or not he right model for him).

That being said, I will always look for a couple things. You probably already do much of this but I will put it out there anyway:

1) How do the skates fit out of the box: This is very important because although you cannot tell how the skate will ultimately feel after baking, you can rule out most skates based upon the following criteria:
a) Length - have him stand on the footbed with it out of the skate and see if there is a bit of room (one pinky width) between the tips of his toes and the end of the footbed. Make sure to overhang his heel a fraction over the back edge of the footbed as the skates have a pocket for the heel. This is just a visual guide. Reinsert footbed and loosen laces all the way out. Have him put on the skate and slide his foot forward until his toes just brush (not crush) against the inside of the toecap. Have him lean his kneee forward so you can reach into the heel area of the skate and put one finger behind the heel semi snugly. This will tell you how much room there is for growth and whether or not the skate generally fits his foot lengthwise. Anymore than one finger is probably too big.
B) General fit - Once you find the right length (almost all brands and even models within the same brand family differ, don't assume because he is a 5 in one brand he is a 5 in all brands) Have him kick back into the skate and you can either do a "pencil test" (you can find more about that here) or even easier just lace up the skates, and look across the laces at the tounge underneath. What you are looking for is his foot (instep) pushing too far above the line of the eyelets across the top of the skate (eyelet to eyelet across). If the top of his foot is protruding above an imaginary line drawn across the skate (eyelet to eyelet), he may be able to use the skate but it is not ideal and may lead to a great deal of foot pain as when you lace up, you are essentially crushing down the top of the foot with the laces. You generally want the laces to go straight across eyelet to eyelet and not curve up and over to accomadate his foot pushing the tounge up at the instep too far. This can tell you whether the volume/depth of the boot is correct for the skater. Ask him to describe any pain, crushing, looseness, etc after lacing them up.
c) How they fit laced up - After you lace them up snugly - Have him walk around a bit and find out if the heel is lifting, any painful spots, crushing on the sides of the foot (too narrow a skate at the midfoot area - side of the foot - can be super painful if the skates crush these bones together when skating) - you are trying to see if the boot is sloppy in any spot, if anything about the construction of the skate bothers/hurt him. Now observe whether he pronates too much (ankles bend in without support) when walking. With my kid, I went to the Vapor XXXX thinking the lateral stiffness would give him more support and it did (but I wouldn't recommend such a stiff skate unless your kid is big/strong or a good skater). You generally want a straight line up the spine of the skate along the leg bone and not a tilt in at the ankle (feet shoulder width apart). While a tilt in can be corrected a bit by moving the blade holder, etc. I would just keep looking at different skate models unitl you found one that he could stand up fairly straight in and met the other criteria for fit (you would be surprised how jsut switching to a different brand/model can fix all sort of problematic fit issues). Have him flex his kness forward to check for stiffness/comfort/heel lift - standing still, tell him to flex forward (heels on the ground) and put his knees over (or further) the toe caps - if he can't do it (or it hurts or takes way too much effort) then maybe the boot is too stiff.

Once you narrow it down to a few skates (chances are by that time only one will meet your criteria) then you can be fairly certian that little adjustments can be made to correct the issues (ankle bone are need punching out a bit, etc).

I have found over many, many many, skate fittings over the years with three boys that just getting one that fits these criteria out of the box gets me 90% of the way there. I then take the skate to a local sharpening/profiling/fit expert who looks at the skate and points out any issues I may have missed (bent blade, mislasted boot, incorrect alignment, etc. - you would be surprised what comes out of the factories even on high end skates). If he says he can work with them and thinks they are ok for the kid, then I have them baked, profiled and sharpened.

After that, it is about a one month period of getting him to open skates, practices, free ice whatever where he can test them out and work him way into the new skate pointing out any rubbing/blisters/pains/problems. I go get those fixed and try it again. Repeat. By that time, he has started to get used to the skates and can work his way out of his old ones. If everything feels good and he is skating fairly well on them - then it is time to start using them full time before the games start.

A long pain the ass process but it works for me.

BTW - My kid just turned 10 also.

2006/07 Season - CCM's & Eastons (Size 2.5 - He hated them, the fit was not right for his foot type - needed a deeper boot)
2007/08 Season - Missions 120XP's (Size 4.5 JR's - not too good - too flexy - wierd fit boot)
2008/09 Season - Nike Bauer Supreme 50's for one week (too flexy) then Nike Bauer Vapor XXXX's (Size 5.5 JR's - very good to great - loved em)
2009/10 Season - Kor Shift 2's (Size 8.5 SR's - So far they look very good coming from the XXXX's I am very impressed - he thinks they are much better and he loved his XXXX's)

Note: If you kid pronates alot or is flat footed, chances are the bones on the inside of the foot below and in front of the ankle will need some accomadation like a punch out to not hurt, rubbed too much.

The baking of the boot helps but only gets your boot to wrap and form a bit if the above critera are almost all there anyway.

Good luck, it is a process but it is worth it when you can finally forget about the equipment for the rest of the year and just enjoy watching him skate.

If the skates turn inward (overpronate), you may look to see if your LHS does some shim work. I had a huge issue with pronation and looked into orthotics until JR looked the skates over and watched how I was standing. I needed 1/4" shims on the skates.


I would not recommend shims. I know some guys who use them but unless is is a desperate case, I would just find a decent boot that lines up well with his leg bones when standing legs apart (no ankle bend in). Find a skate with not very high arch support (as he dosent need it and pushing on an arch when he is flat footed will only serve to bend the skate in more). In my opinion, shims are just masking a larger problem with the fit of the skate. For example, a boot does not fit right and forces your childs foot to press down in the wrong places - "oh, he is bending in at the ankles...we will shim it to straigten him out"...it didn't address the fit problem it just masked it. I would do shims as a last resort if you just couldn't find a supportive boot that lined him up well.

PS - Feet turning inward is not a bad thing when it comes to skaters. Some of the best skaters out there are pigeon toed and bowlegged.

I am sure I am wrong on some points of fitting (and many on here who know more can correct me) but this is how I have been pretty lucky getting skates that get my kid through the season and meet his skating level. My youngest seems to fit in any skate and has no issues with pronation, etc and go like crazy. It takes all of 1 hour to get him new skates but my hard to fit child is a whole long process.

Edited by goodguy, 04 August 2009 - 08:57 PM.


#11 K9 Unit

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 09:18 PM

Sounds like your kid is very similar to mine - almost flat footed and pronates alot - high instep - always a big deal to try to fit him in skates.

Since your kid is almost flatfooted, you probably dont want a high arch inside the skate or superfeet insoles. I kept trying to put superfeet in my kids skates thinking they would correct his inside lean due to pronation and they just enhanced it. This year I actually had some of the footbed cut out where his arch was and it corrected some of the problem as he was not pushing down as much on the arch are unnaturally. You might find with some brands of skate, he hits the side of the boot inside before he even gets down to the footbed and pushing down on it will squeeze the foot too much (too narrow a boot or not he right model for him).


try the graf sidas footbed if thats the problem...it molds to your foot specs if you will, there's a thread on it with some pictures
Bleeding blue and white...badly

#12 goodguy

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 09:59 PM

Sounds like your kid is very similar to mine - almost flat footed and pronates alot - high instep - always a big deal to try to fit him in skates.

Since your kid is almost flatfooted, you probably dont want a high arch inside the skate or superfeet insoles. I kept trying to put superfeet in my kids skates thinking they would correct his inside lean due to pronation and they just enhanced it. This year I actually had some of the footbed cut out where his arch was and it corrected some of the problem as he was not pushing down as much on the arch are unnaturally. You might find with some brands of skate, he hits the side of the boot inside before he even gets down to the footbed and pushing down on it will squeeze the foot too much (too narrow a boot or not he right model for him).


try the graf sidas footbed if thats the problem...it molds to your foot specs if you will, there's a thread on it with some pictures


Good idea but I would almost have him put that extra money into a good fitting skate with maybe a bit more lateral support (if that is what he needs).
Although, I have not used the Graf SIDAS but I hear it is good.

Just saying, my kids skate issues were fixed by getting a very supportive skate that fit him well out of the box first - Vapor XXXX's with stock footbeds tirmmed a bit where it contacted the arches to give him more arch space. This season, he is using the KOR skates with the greay superfeet insoles as they come stock in the skates. He is skating fine in them - so in my experience, it has less to do with the footbeds and more to do with the overall skate properties - at least in my case.

But now that I think about it, my 7 year old son had a kid at tryouts who was an ankle bender and the parents bought him Vapor XXXX's (not on my recommendation) and he was still bending in at the ankles. Not due to pronation, becasue his skates were tied too loose (not the best skater but trying hard). Anyway, his mom tied his skates too loose (hence the ankle bending - in retrospect, probably because if she tied them correctly, his feet would hurt) so I offered to tie them. Well, apparently the kid was crying in pain on the ice as the skates were killing him (and I didn't even tie them that tight). I didn't check his fit but knowing his skating ability, I would say he was not strong enough to "work" the Vapor XXXX's and maybe they were a bad fit to begin with also.

On my own kids, using the fit specifics I mentioned earlier - I have never had my kids feet hurt like that if I fit them correctly to begin with and baked/punched them after a bit of trial and error. If his foot does not sit deep enough in the boot, when you tighten the skate will just crush in from the sides and not wrap over the top of the foot like it should after baking. One more thing I forgot to mention, after lacing up, the eyelets should not be too far apart (a couple inches all the way up after lacing) and you can sort of tell if the eyelets are splayed outward after tightening if the skate is maybe too narrow. After baking, the eyelets part of the boot should be able to somewhat "wrap over" the top of the the foot and around the leg to give a slight "wrap" around shape.

Edited by goodguy, 04 August 2009 - 10:16 PM.


#13 Gedbarchetta

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 10:50 PM

thanks very much good guy....i learned a lot about skates already.

one last question....my kid has specially made orthodics by a podiatrist.Should i still use them in his skates?

#14 epstud74

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 12:50 AM

thanks very much good guy....i learned a lot about skates already.

one last question....my kid has specially made orthodics by a podiatrist.Should i still use them in his skates?



Try on the skates w/the orthotics in them. You can ask the doctor if you can get orthotics made specifically for athletics as well...I'd never fit a skate w/o putting the orthotics in them first.

#15 goodguy

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 01:35 AM

Depends on the orthodic type. If it is a soft spongy type orthodic then I would say no - but if it is a firm supportive type then perhaps I would see if you could get one - a thin one if possible - with the idea to use it in his skates. I wouldn't use the same one in his shoes as you would be swapping it out all the time and maybe leaving it behind, etc. Unless you were really dilligent about it. Myself, I would forget it or lose it...lol

If you do go with the skate orthodic, then use them when trying on the skates. Epstud is right - if you try on the skates without them, everything will be off. The idea is - if you try them on without an orthodic and find a good fit - then that may be totally diffferent with the orthodic in - the orthodic may raise the foot up or make the foot sit on a slight angle that the manufacturers footbed does not - therefore making the skate fit/bake/break in differently.

If the orthodic is thick - then you may need a slightly deeper skate - assuming you plan on leaving it in the skate permanently. I like the idea of getting an orthodic which is right for his foot and THEN finding a skate to fit the orthodic and foot instead of trying to rig a skate with shims, extensive punching, etc. While you may eventually have to do some of that - you may be able to avoid it altogether.

With my kid, I think I finally see the light at the end of the tunnel (fit wise). It seems that, while still pronating, he has gotten so strong from skating all the time - that I think he could skate well now regardless of the skates. But that may be the fact that I go through the fitting process so painstakingly with him that I am just assuming his fit issues are less problematic than they once were. Maybe it is a bit of both - I suppose that if I let him choose a pretty flimsy skate, he would be right back to bending in at the ankles again? Good luck - you have your work cut out for you if you are not close to a place you can try on a bunch of skates. Maybe take a mini trip to a location where they have a lot of skates and do a skate try on marathon. Skates are the one piece of equipment you really have to get right.

Edited by goodguy, 05 August 2009 - 01:47 AM.


#16 Darkbyte

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 04:19 AM

a) Length - have him stand on the footbed with it out of the skate and see if there is a bit of room (one pinky width) between the tips of his toes and the end of the footbed. Make sure to overhang his heel a fraction over the back edge of the footbed as the skates have a pocket for the heel. This is just a visual guide. Reinsert footbed and loosen laces all the way out. Have him put on the skate and slide his foot forward until his toes just brush (not crush) against the inside of the toecap. Have him lean his kneee forward so you can reach into the heel area of the skate and put one finger behind the heel semi snugly. This will tell you how much room there is for growth and whether or not the skate generally fits his foot lengthwise. Anymore than one finger is probably too big.

Just curious, do you use the foot bed to approximate whether or not the skate is wide enough? or is it just a length thing?

#17 goodguy

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 10:01 AM

a) Length - have him stand on the footbed with it out of the skate and see if there is a bit of room (one pinky width) between the tips of his toes and the end of the footbed. Make sure to overhang his heel a fraction over the back edge of the footbed as the skates have a pocket for the heel. This is just a visual guide. Reinsert footbed and loosen laces all the way out. Have him put on the skate and slide his foot forward until his toes just brush (not crush) against the inside of the toecap. Have him lean his kneee forward so you can reach into the heel area of the skate and put one finger behind the heel semi snugly. This will tell you how much room there is for growth and whether or not the skate generally fits his foot lengthwise. Anymore than one finger is probably too big.

Just curious, do you use the foot bed to approximate whether or not the skate is wide enough? or is it just a length thing?


Good question - I have not really used the footbed to approximate width as it always seemed to inexact.
What I have noticed is my sons feet slightly exceed the footbed width when standing on them.

By that gauge I would think the skates are too narrow, but I know the skates are the correct width and he has never had any problem with them (this is the same for multiple pairs of skates). This may be due to the fact that the skates typically bow out a bit just above the footbed almost everywhere but the arch and toecap.

I would think that if the skate was too wide (or narrow) your kids foot might be inside the margins of the footbed edge too much (or hanging over way too much) as with the bow out of the skate, he would be not able to get a snug fit side to side if it was too wide.

There are four areas of width that I check for though:

1) Heel/Ankle - Just looking in the skate does the heel pocket seem very wide with no heel lockdown/contouring? Often a heel pocket will be too wide or narrow for a particular foot. Does the ankle have a good snug fit without feeling the push/crush of the "shell" of the boot forcing into the ankle too aggressiveley (baking will help this a bit). And some skates have a different material at the spot of the ankle bone. You son, since he pronates may need punching out at the bone located just in front and below the inside ankle bone. Most pronators will not be comfortable there get rubbing/blisters at that spot until it is punched out.

2) Eyelet seperation - how far apart are the opposing eyelets when laced up? If they are splayed apart too much or in one are of the skate - then the skate may be too narrow - but more likely, not deep enough (check using the "pencil test" or the eyelet level across the tounge test for depth). Click HERE to find out more about the pencil test. Update - my kid is still skating in his 5.5 junior vapor xxxx's until he gets used to his new 8.5 seniors and he is absolutely breaking every fit rule I have ever known - the eyelets a splayed way out, his foot is way above the eyelets, etc. but he still skates great in them - probably because he has been on them for over a year - so use these rules as a gauge when buying new skates but realize there are many who are breaking the fit rules and get by just fine. I would personally stick to them as much as possible though. I am guessing he will only skate in the poorly fit skates for another week or two until he gets used to his new ones.

3) Midfoot width - I had a pair of skates that fit great in the heel, perfect in the toecap area but absolutely crushed the side bones of my foot and make skating so painful I could barely stand after fifteen minutes.

4) Toecap width - up near where the laces end/toecap starts is usually where too narrow a toecap is noticed. For me - most Graf skates are way too narrow here and you can feel it right away. Bauers on the other hand seem to be fine for me in the toecap.

Width is not as exact a science as length as 1) You have less room for error in width - you really cannot have "room to grow" widthwise like you might be able to get away with in length. 2) There are so many areas of variation and measurement along the outside and inside of the foot - there is no reliable way be 100% sure a particular skate fits well widthwise other than feel. Just have him try them on and tell you what he feels - and you knowing the potential issues, will be able to guess what is going on with the skate.

In my opinion, width fit is more important than length as length is pretty easy to get right and you have a bit of room to play with length. If the width is wrong, it can be so painful that your kid may not be able to overlook it during games/practices and not be able to perform - and will come to associate skating with pain - and more foot problems to boot.

Edited by goodguy, 07 August 2009 - 09:58 AM.


#18 Gedbarchetta

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 01:36 PM

thanks for taking the time to answer my questions....truly appreciate it!

#19 Darkbyte

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 12:53 AM

Just curious, do you use the foot bed to approximate whether or not the skate is wide enough? or is it just a length thing?


Good question - I have not really used the footbed to approximate width as it always seemed to inexact.
What I have noticed is my sons feet slightly exceed the footbed width when standing on them.

.....

Thankyou for your answer :)

Edited by Darkbyte, 07 August 2009 - 12:53 AM.


#20 porky45

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 02:46 PM

a) Length - have him stand on the footbed with it out of the skate and see if there is a bit of room (one pinky width) between the tips of his toes and the end of the footbed. Make sure to overhang his heel a fraction over the back edge of the footbed as the skates have a pocket for the heel. This is just a visual guide. Reinsert footbed and loosen laces all the way out. Have him put on the skate and slide his foot forward until his toes just brush (not crush) against the inside of the toecap. Have him lean his kneee forward so you can reach into the heel area of the skate and put one finger behind the heel semi snugly. This will tell you how much room there is for growth and whether or not the skate generally fits his foot lengthwise. Anymore than one finger is probably too big.

Just curious, do you use the foot bed to approximate whether or not the skate is wide enough? or is it just a length thing?


Good question - I have not really used the footbed to approximate width as it always seemed to inexact.
What I have noticed is my sons feet slightly exceed the footbed width when standing on them.

By that gauge I would think the skates are too narrow, but I know the skates are the correct width and he has never had any problem with them (this is the same for multiple pairs of skates). This may be due to the fact that the skates typically bow out a bit just above the footbed almost everywhere but the arch and toecap.

I would think that if the skate was too wide (or narrow) your kids foot might be inside the margins of the footbed edge too much (or hanging over way too much) as with the bow out of the skate, he would be not able to get a snug fit side to side if it was too wide.

There are four areas of width that I check for though:

1) Heel/Ankle - Just looking in the skate does the heel pocket seem very wide with no heel lockdown/contouring? Often a heel pocket will be too wide or narrow for a particular foot. Does the ankle have a good snug fit without feeling the push/crush of the "shell" of the boot forcing into the ankle too aggressiveley (baking will help this a bit). And some skates have a different material at the spot of the ankle bone. You son, since he pronates may need punching out at the bone located just in front and below the inside ankle bone. Most pronators will not be comfortable there get rubbing/blisters at that spot until it is punched out.

2) Eyelet seperation - how far apart are the opposing eyelets when laced up? If they are splayed apart too much or in one are of the skate - then the skate may be too narrow - but more likely, not deep enough (check using the "pencil test" or the eyelet level across the tounge test for depth). Click HERE to find out more about the pencil test. Update - my kid is still skating in his 5.5 junior vapor xxxx's until he gets used to his new 8.5 seniors and he is absolutely breaking every fit rule I have ever known - the eyelets a splayed way out, his foot is way above the eyelets, etc. but he still skates great in them - probably because he has been on them for over a year - so use these rules as a gauge when buying new skates but realize there are many who are breaking the fit rules and get by just fine. I would personally stick to them as much as possible though. I am guessing he will only skate in the poorly fit skates for another week or two until he gets used to his new ones.

3) Midfoot width - I had a pair of skates that fit great in the heel, perfect in the toecap area but absolutely crushed the side bones of my foot and make skating so painful I could barely stand after fifteen minutes.

4) Toecap width - up near where the laces end/toecap starts is usually where too narrow a toecap is noticed. For me - most Graf skates are way too narrow here and you can feel it right away. Bauers on the other hand seem to be fine for me in the toecap.

Width is not as exact a science as length as 1) You have less room for error in width - you really cannot have "room to grow" widthwise like you might be able to get away with in length. 2) There are so many areas of variation and measurement along the outside and inside of the foot - there is no reliable way be 100% sure a particular skate fits well widthwise other than feel. Just have him try them on and tell you what he feels - and you knowing the potential issues, will be able to guess what is going on with the skate.

In my opinion, width fit is more important than length as length is pretty easy to get right and you have a bit of room to play with length. If the width is wrong, it can be so painful that your kid may not be able to overlook it during games/practices and not be able to perform - and will come to associate skating with pain - and more foot problems to boot.


your kid is going from size 5.5 skates into 8.5 skates? that's like wearing clown shoes...why the decision to go that high?

#21 starsfan71

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 03:19 PM

Changing 3 sizes? Those skates were either so tiny they were breaking his foot or he is going to get some nasty blisters in those 8.5
OJ didn't knife anyone on any of his TD runs either, but here we are, Dershowitz.-Mack
When they're that cheap and only have 1 pic, I'm imagining the smell of a wet dead hooker. Drewhunz