stevebalchunas

A misaligned holder doesn't help things out but from a manufacturing perspective, the way the blade holder is made, it's not realistic to think they could produce a perfectly straight blade slot from heel to toe. So, add the fact that it won't be perfectly straight to then having to attach it to the skate boot (not a perfect process either) and you'll end up with the steel in most cases being closer to perfect than the holder/boot combo. Take a good blade and a good holder and it's more likely that this combo won't be as straight as a good blade on its own. Again, we're really splitting hairs here. These differences are so small. I don't personally use my blade holder all the time because I get a great result in the skate holder, but I know there are some anal folks out there who have HDIs and go nuts trying to zero out every blade from toe to heel. They might want/need a blade holder.

I think I've mentioned it already in this post. There is one clear advantage (if you're anal) and that's that the steel is always straighter when outside of the skate blade holder. So, if you hate seeing a level blade in the middle and 1-2 thou off on the heel and toe, taking the blade out is only going to improve your readings. That's the one true advantage other than the convenience when you have multiple sets of steel. As for the vibration, we haven't seen any issues here yet. There's a definite difference in the sound, similar to when you sharpen loose steel on a traditional clamp and machine but nothing destructive. All of our NHL Equipment Managers utilize the blade holders.

Best thing to do would be to ship some blades to us. We'd give you our 1/2 or 3/4 FIRE, and you can test them out. Unfortunately, since they are not the same thing, there's no direct comparison for FBV OR BFD cuts. It's the same premise, but we'd never guarantee that one feels exactly like the other. Most mixed reviews of FIRE (all cuts, not just 3/4) tend to be from skaters trying a flat bottom hollow for the first time. And as anyone who has skated on flat bottom knows, they DO feel different. Folks will write in stating "I love my 1/2" Radius Ring (traditional hollow), but would love to try out a flat bottom ring." For these customers, my first response is always "If you love 1/2" RR, maybe stick with 1/2" RR, but if you're going to try something different, know it's going to feel very different when first skating on the 1/2 FIRE". Just because you love 3/4", doesn't mean you'd like the feel of a 3/4" flat bottom equivalent. Just be aware of that when trying it/them out. Hope that helps!

Yikes, that doesn't sound right, sorry about that! Shoot me an email (steve@sparxhockey.com) and I'll get one out tomorrow for you. Sorry I didn't catch this earlier.

We've definitely had a handful of hardware/software issues affecting a very small percentage of sharpeners ~1%, but even when our customers do run into an issue, we're on top of it and usually have a solution same day. So, if it were up to me, I'd say you'd be fine to make a purchase knowing you have us fully supporting all of our sharpeners :). I think anyone here in the thread (who already owns a Sparx) can agree, if they've had an issue, it's been handled quickly. Keep in mind, we do not have a version 2 in the works.

I know it's 4X our traditional Grinding Rings, but I'd have to double check what exactly that is in material removal per pass. You're right on with the 8 cycles. Depending on how deep of a hollow you put back on a skate after the X-Grind (which puts an almost flat profile on the blade), you may end up only needing 4 cycles, say with a 7/8" Radius Ring, but 10 cycles for a 3/8" Ring. I think running 4 cycles with a regular ring after the X-Grind and checking, then running 2 at a time until the marker is gone is a good idea.

I'm impressed.

I've written a little on why I think automation will always win out here. I'll be the first to admit, I do a great job, but in the back of my mind, I know I can't hold that profile true and keep all of the other constants (translation speed, pressure, and RPM) like a well-engineered machine does. And for sure, a huge part is convenience. I can run out to my garage and start up my Blackstone, or I can just pop my skates in while I pack up my bag to go in the basement and do no work at all. So, not only can it beat me on some performance aspects, but it's the same argument for using a Keurig versus brewing a pot of coffee for one cup. I think anyone in this thread who has significant experience sharpening skates manually will tell you it's going to take years to perfect your craft and run into all the issues and know how to troubleshoot them. So if you're down for learning a new hobby, go for manual, just be sure you know what you're getting yourself into. The cost of the traditional grinding wheels (if that's all you're going to look at) will probably work out better financially in the long term. Sparx will always be ~$1 a sharpening after the initial payoff. I bet a traditional stone works out to be pennies per sharpening.

I'm going to assume the same. Which hollow did you request she give you? Did she have that hollow available? Did she give you the hollow you requested? etc. The only other thing that would stop the sharpener from giving a complete sharpening is if you had uneven edges to begin with and we didn't completely reset the blade surface (didn't run enough cycles to wear down the high edge). The first time anyone jumps in and uses a Sparx, we always ask them to run the marker test. Cover the bottom part of the blade with a permanent marker and run cycles until it is all gone. Once it's gone, we can pretty much assume your edges are level (if the sharpener was aligned properly, and that's pretty tough to really mess up) and you have the desired hollow in the blade. That simple test will, for the most part, guarantee a proper sharpening. All of this will depend on your hollow preference, though. If you're not confident in which hollow you prefer, you could get the best 5/8" sharpening in the world and still not be happy if it's not enough/too much bite. Hope you don't have to resort to sharpening by mail, sounds extremely inconvenient :)

Thanks for sharing this JR... this was awesome to read about.

The Grinding Ring maintains its hollow integrity throughout its life, mostly due to the superabrasive which doesn't wear down over the course of its 320 cycle lifespan (and you're right, it has to wear some, but those numbers are so minuscule, you wouldn't notice a change in depth even if you used an HDI to measure it). Since we're not using a traditional vitrified stone, we don't have to worry about dressing or resetting the surface to maintain a hollow shape. The best analogy I can think of is the traditional vitrified stone is like a chocolate chip cookie (the cookie dough is the glass that holds the chocolate chips (the crystals) together). This was always the best way for me to visualize how soft and easy it can break down. Our Superabrasive is more like a lollipop, or any other kind of hard candy OR maybe just think of it as a bunch of chocolate chips bonded together. Hope that helps explain our Grinding Ring abrasive a bit more for you guys.

I did for the last 13 years... I've had some form of Sparx prototype for the past year or so and been straight Sparx ever since. Why would I ever jump in anymore? I'm only going to alter the profile a bit. I love going through a piece of steel and then overlaying it on a new piece with a similar profile. It still impresses me all the time. Consistency is the name of the game now. Oh, and I don't have to spend 10 minutes with my manual machine anymore. Just pop 'em in 5 minutes before I have to go, run a couple of cycles while I pack my bag and I'm ready to go. And for reference, I play 4-5 nights a week and sharpen before almost every skate (I'm a little spoiled, but I've always done it that way).

We've tested it up to our "7 years of team use" standard which ends up being somewhere north of 15K normal sharpenings. That number roughly comes from one team of 20, sharpening twice a week, for 52 weeks a year. The sharpener would have to be sent back to our HQ in Boston for service, there aren't any user serviceable parts besides the Grinding Ring and Filter, which can be replaced at home. My gut wants to say I think so, but we definitely have not tested enough Step Steel to say that for sure. One advantage we see in Step is that it usually deburrs extremely well. Sometimes you can take it out of the sharpener and we won't even notice a burr at all, and if we do, it's easy to get it off.

That's a good question. I wouldn't call mild bends an issue, though. If they exist in almost every blade, we're all doing fine skating on what we have now so... and remember, if you straighten a mildly bent blade while sharpening, it's going to go right back to being mildly bent when skating (with level edges? sure, but we're kind of splitting hairs at that point). There are so many variables at play when trying to nail all the things in a great sharpening. I think the best of us (even the pros) try and get as close to perfect as possible but understand you'll almost never get everything going for you all at once (I'm sure our engineers would argue you'd never hit "perfect").

100% agree... I was trying to say when you clamp the skate in, you still can't control the bend outside of the clamp. When we did our research, all of the blades were in a clamp, we never tested a loose piece of steel (one would assume those bends would only be even more pronounced). But again, we can only control what we can control, so that's why I always reference that center 4"-5", and in those cases, a clamp is going to do a real good job straightening a bow in the middle. I've been sharpening for going on 14 years now. A lot of that was in retail, so I'd like to think I've seen a lot. And I think like a lot of us in here who sharpen know there are a lot of theories and ways people think it should be done and we take bits and pieces of all of that stuff and form our own opinions. I think the coolest thing for me has been the last couple years and getting to toss all those theories to the smart guys in the office who can measure the smallest bends, changes in hollow depth, put burrs under powerful microscopes, and prove a lot of what we think we know/knew. And for the record, I really do hope we can learn stuff from each other and not be all manual vs. Sparx in here all the time. If I think I can provide some value or insight, I'm going to post if that's OK with everyone. How about yourself?

Hey Mark, Yes, the skate clamp (clearing the air here, when I say clamp, I'm referring to all clamps Sparx, Blackstone, Blademaster, etc.) is going to straighten (for the most part) that center 4 to 5 inches to probably < .001", it's once you get outside of that where the blade can still bend. I would also agree with the second statement as well, in general, if you have a mild bend you'll be just fine. If you search the "perfect" blade, you may never find it.

Amen haha. Power to the people!

How do you work around bent blades? Did you see my post on page 7 of this thread with our bent blade research? If so, then what you're really asking is "How does anyone sharpen any blade?". And that answer is pretty simple. Probably the same way you do. At the end of the day, we never want to adjust our clamp OR your holder to even up the toe or heel if the middle 4"-5" of the blade is straight. If we did, we'd end up throwing off that middle section (arguably the most used/important) just to see a level edge at the toe or heel. We're pretty confident saying a few things: 1. We all have control over the part of the blade in the clamp, so we need to do our best to keep that level. 2. Most, if not all blades are bent. 3. You can make a mild to severe bend better, but we doubt anyone's getting any blade to be perfect (our engineers would say it's next to impossible and that even if you did, you probably wouldn't have the tools to know it's flat). Blades with </= .003" of bend, can appear to sit flat on a flat surface, the eye isn't going to always be able to catch it. I feel a lot more comfortable answering this now than I would have 2 years ago without the testing and engineers to help back it all up.

Sorry if I jumped to that conclusion on you. I hear ya on that part, although that's about as hard to police as a curbside lemonade stand. I think if you do a great job, converse with your customers, teach them about hollows and profiles, and are consistent, you're going to keep them with you. Poor quality (which can be found around just about every corner these days) is only going to drive more folks away from the big box stores now. In my dream world, the Sparx forces all shops to either do pro-quality sharpenings all the time or give it up. Either way, I think the consumer is going to benifit from all of this one way or another.

Thanks, Jimmy. That's a pretty nice thing to wish for our customers. Glad to see you're keeping an open mind to all this. Again, we'd love to hear any constructive criticism you may have about the product.

Definitely not recommended, you're essentially ruining the edge/bite angle that you just put on the skate. Not sure where that idea would have come from, would you be able to point me to the comment/commenter? The sweetstick is amazing at repairing a full blown edge on the bench during the game if you don't have extra steel though. The AnR version with the stone on the other end is great to work out the burr and then fold that edge back over.

And you're 100% positive those skates had not be skated on? If they had not been skated on, sounds like they may not have had an edge before, and then didn't run enough cycles to completely remove the entire bad edge. Did you come to a similar conclusion?

I'd really love to hear comments on this as well. I won't say too much about what I think, but here's a little chart from some of our blade research... My engineers would tell me never to say never, so I'm just going to say it would be highly unlikely to be skating on a perfectly straight blade. And no matter what tool you think you have that can "straighten" the bend, it's highly unlikely you could ever bring something back to perfect when we're measuring at such a small scale (thousandths of inches). This chart is ~50 blades we tested for straightness (new/old/Bauer/CCM/Step/in-holder/out of holder (the Sparx recommended way to sharpen)/etc.) and as you can see, they're all bent to some degree. So, for those who are questioning how we can perform with bent steel, at least know that we've done our homework and that we know of the "issue of bent steel" and think we handle them just fine :).

Just checking in, Tyler. I haven't seen anything from you yet. Did you have a chance to sharpen and get some photos?

Hey Tyler, Sorry about that. For some reason, those wall posts don't show up in our updates. This doesn't sound right, you shouldn't have to be re-aligning the machine unless you're moving/traveling. Can you shoot me a few photos of the alignment before and after? It's a little hard to grab, but if you rest your phone right on top of the optical alignment tool, you can usually tap on the area of focus (the tab and groove) and get a decent result. Also, I'm just assuming you're checking the optical alignment and not checking edge height on the blade skate by skate to come to this conclusion. So, let me know a bit more of how you're measuring this and send those photos over. My email is steve@sparxhockey.com and if you want to give me a quick call too after you send the photos, please feel free to at 855 772 7947 x711.