chiefs17

AfftonDad, you are absolutely right! I had CCM Vectors and that little lace lock would always come into contact with the holder. Glad to hear I'm not the only one who struggled with these problems.

True North, have you checked to see that your Left skate is clamped properly? Make sure there is no contact between the boot and the holder, especially if you are sharpening Graf's. I've had this problem before and it always came down to some type of interference with a part of the skate and the holder. mckjim, nice shop! How do you like that dust collection system? I'm using a shop vac as well, but I have a large scoop that catches the dust. I'm thinking with just a small pipe like your setup you would get more suction at the end of the pipe, and possibly collect more dust.

Thanks for the replies mckjim and rachael. I've been seeing a lot of heels and toes excessively worn away from heavy handed sharpeners too. I also see skates that are way beyond the point where they should have been sharpened. These are mostly kids skates and I guess they don't complain as much about dull skates, or the parents don't know when to have them done. For those skates, I also hit the flat section of the blade a few times because most of the wear seems to be concentrated in that area. I think it says something if an NHL Eq. manager tries to avoid changing the profile by doing extra passes on just the flat.

Chadd, what I meant is, do you make any passes without hitting the toe and heel? Thanks.

I've had trouble with Graf skates fitting in the Tri Lie holder too. I always had to do them with the outside of the skate facing up, which means heel first on the left skate, and toe first on the right. It's the way the Graf boot has such a pronounced shape where the outside forefoot is. Try flipping the skate around if it's hitting. It doesn't matter which way the skate hits the wheel. In fact, the article you posted about sharpening said that the Oilers Eq. Manager goes with toe first, but Blackstone suggests heel first. I saw something else in the article, does anyone here do 3-4 passes just on the flat section of blade? I've been doing it for a while and I think it helps keep the profile in check. Just curious if anyone else does this.

I never had to mess with the set screws, but your solution sounds good.

rachael is right, remove any burrs and wipe the blades with a towel before measuring. I notice there can be more of a burr when you are changing hollows from one to another. Especially when going from FBV to ROH and vice versa. The Bat Gage is a tricky little device, but as you get used to it, you can get good results. I clamp it on the blade, then push down on the spring loaded base part a couple of times. You also need to hold the skate upside down and level while doing this. I noticed that you can alter the readings of the gage by tilting the skate. Do this a few times and see what your readings are. If you have uneven edges, turn the skate around and check it again. It should read uneven that way as well, this lets you know that you're seeing things correctly. Same goes for even edges, if they're even one way, they should be even when you flip the skate around. It's just a way to double check it until you get used to, and trust, the gage. Finally, put a drop of light oil (3 in 1 is good) between the aluminum base part, and the sliding pointer part, right where the two pieces slide against each other. Also oil the two pins. Any friction there can mess up your readings.

Hey, that's good news you're figuring it out! As far as level edges, I use the Bat Gage and I try to get 1/2 a tick mark or less difference between edges. I don't know how many thousandths of an inch that is. If it's any more than 1/2 a tick mark I make an adjustment and do another couple of passes.

Nuggy, can you get good results with your adult skate holder, or is it both holders that are giving you problems? I guess I'm trying to figure out if it's the holder, or the machine that's giving you trouble.

To get to the set screw you will need to remove all of the dials, and I believe it is a flat head screwdriver to adjust it. If I recall, those set screws are in there pretty tight, maybe even with Loc-tite, which would make sense since you don't want those screws to move. Before doing that, check the clearance of the boot to the holder. Your symptoms sound like a boot clearance issue. If you are having clearance problems, you can definitely turn the skate around to give you more clearance. You can also try to position the boot fore or aft to avoid clearance issues. I'm surprised that you would have clearance issues with kids skates, but I'm not familiar with the child holder. "Another thought occurred to me - is it possible I am clamping the blade too much ? The process of clamping the blade seems to change the "level" of the blade/boot. Specifically, the back of the boot rises by a significant amount as I pull the clamp lever. Maybe I am clamping it so hard that the boot is tilted ?" You say that the back of the boot rises when you clamp it. Try this, after you are done clamping it, take a look at the area where the upper and lower jaws are contacting the skate blade. You should see if there is a gap between either of the jaws and the skate blade. If the skate blade appears to be making contact with the entire thickness or width of the jaw then you should be fine. Holding the whole thing up to a light and sighting down the blade will help with seeing if there is a gap or not. I found that you need very little pressure on the clamp when tightening. Try going just snug enough. And yes, where you have the screw to begin with will affect the angle of the lever, so you can't just say crank it till there's a 45 degree angle on the lever. If you're doing kids skates, you can almost get away with just using the screw for clamping, it really is such little force that is needed. If you think it's not tight enough, try to move the skate once it's clamped down. Don't waste your money on that calibration block. If you have dial calipers you can calibrate it yourself using those. One call to Blackstone should get you the dimensions of the calibration block if you really want to get it set to "factory specs". But your description of what you did after messing with the pitch knob is exactly what I would have done. Get the blade centered on the wheel by eye using the front dials, then measure the distance between the lower plate and dial plate on the front of the holder, then set the pitch dial so that everything is level. You did it right. Keep us updated.

Nuggy, are you using the Consumer Holder or the improved Tri Lie holder? Also, check to see if your skate boot is touching the holder anywhere. Clamp your skate in the holder and try to see if there is space between the holder and the boot. This happens easily and often with large or heavy skates. More of a problem with the Consumer Holder. That set screw you're seeing is the part that makes it click, it has a spring loaded ball bearing in the end of it. The dials have indents machined into the bottom of them, and the ball of the set screw fits into those indents. Yes it is very important that they all click. This is what makes a Tri Lie holder much easier to use than other holders. Two things can happen, the set screw can back itself out and lose contact with the dial, or you loosened the dial so much that the set screw is no longer making contact with the dial. I'm guessing the dial is too loose, especially if you are getting a high edge on the bottom edge of the skate, and then loosening the knobs to try and adjust for it. If the skate boot is clearing the holder, and everything looks right, you may need to adjust the pitch dial. I know people say not to touch the pitch dial, but that's after you have your holder set up correctly. Ideally your skate blade should be perfectly parallel to the table when it's in the holder. This is hard to measure. If you are using the consumer holder it will be a struggle to get good results, and you should think about upgrading to the improved Tri Lie, there's a model number for it on the BS site. I can help with problems on the Consumer Holder if you need it. Let me know if this helps.

I hope there is no comparison between a Blackstone Classic and a Wissota. How much does the Classic cost? The comparison to a Wissota would be the X01, very similar in price.

This all goes back to the wheel arbor being out of round. Try loosening the arbor nut and repositioning the grinding wheel. It sometimes takes a few times doing this to get it better. You can contact BS about the arbor, and I suggest you do, but they will only send you a new one that is to the same specs (out of round). Who knows, maybe if more people let them know that there is a problem there they will do something about it. Kind of like the original holder the machines came with. They must have heard it enough that came out with the improved tri-lie holder for the X series.

Wheel hop discussed here. http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index...mp;#entry684900 And here. http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index...mp;#entry739626 And here. http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index...mp;#entry693741 It's basically a suspect arbor that is out of round that causes a wheel hop. You might need to mess with the grinding wheel placement if you are seeing a vibration. I've had decent luck with re-positioning the grinding wheel to get the vibration to go away.

AfftonDad, nice job on the scale drawings, as you can see, not much wiggle room when it comes to the FBV. If your blades are less than .110" it's got to be absolutely perfectly aligned or you may not see any edges. You're also right about the wheel hop. I no longer use a separate wheel for each spinner. My whole table will vibrate if I don't have the wheel in a certain orientation. I can see the results in the blade finish too, lots of little ridges.

If you're looking for a cheap pair, try Harbor Freight. This one's hard to beat for $20. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Disp...?itemnumber=895 Starrett is nice if you can afford it and need it every day, but for what we're doing these Cen Tech's are fine.

Hey Nuggy, can you measure the thickness of the blades on those cheapie skates you are experimenting with? You would need to use a micrometer or calipers, or some other precision measuring tool. I'll bet the steel on those skates is less than .100" thick. That's why you don't see any FBV "fangs", or light when you hold a straight edge up to it. You've practiced making passes on a pair of junk skates, time to step up to the real deal. Don't worry it's not that hard, go for it!

Nuggy, are you doing an FBV or a regular hollow? If you are doing an FBV then the blades will look flat, even using a straight edge and looking for light. Try dressing the wheel a little more if you are still not getting a hollow. If you're starting with a new wheel it will need more than a few light touches with the spinner.

goblue, I am using the X12 Tri Lie holder now and I have sharpened size 1 skates without a problem. Smaller than that might be a problem. I mounted a Youth 9 and the lower jaw steel was longer than the skate steel so I could not do the toe and heel of the blade without hitting the holder on the grinding wheel. I will likely have to bring them to a shop if I ever want to get them sharpened. Or I thought of making a new, shorter lower jaw, it's just a piece of flat stock with some holes drilled in it for mounting. Don't worry, the kids will grow so fast you will not be sharpening small skates for long! The hardest skates to do by far, are small goalie skates. It's because of the large cowling, probably the same reason Nuggy is struggling with the CCM Lil Tykes. Try flipping the skate over so you are grinding the toe first. That's what I always had to do with one of my son's 1.0 goalie skates. Oddly enough my Graf G3's had the same problem and I always had to mount 1 skate toe first. The outside of the skate would hit the holder causing an uneven clamping. Nuggy, the pitch knob has a wide range of adjustment, you can turn it a lot and it will make little difference at the blade. If you want to reset it, you can measure the distance between the pitch knob and base and make it the same as the front knob to base distance. Or just mount a skate and eye it up with the wheel. The skate blade should be parallel to the top surface of the wheel, or look like this ](, where ] is the skate blade, and ( is your grinding wheel(regular hollow, no FBV). The knob is there for adjustment if need be, most people do not use it for anything after the initial setup. I think Blackstone warns you not to touch it because it's one more variable to contend with if you're new to skate sharpening. It's easier to just concentrate on the 2 front dials and not really necessary to adjust the pitch.

Jeff, buy a machine, you will learn to sharpen skates in no time if you have your own!

hci, I have had my X-01 since Feb. 09 and I only do personal sharpenings, about 1 or 2 a week on average, with some weeks being a lot more. I would guess I have at least 100 sharpenings on the machine, probably more, with no sign of motor degradation. I have not opened the case to see what kind of motor is in there. I don't think the X-02 motor will fit, the housing seems way bigger than an X-01 housing. Sounds like a good question for Blackstone.

AfftonDad, that might have been me that gave you the suggestion on trimming the corners of the holder baseplate. I've done mine the same way, did it on the old consumer holder and also on the improved Tri Lie holder. Gives you a lot more life out of the wheels. In addition, I never use the guard on the machine, it hides too much of the wheel and it's quicker to change spinners without it. There is a little dust accumulation near the spinner knob mechanism, but I just give it a quick vacuum when I'm changing spinners.

I've heard it too and I believe it could be a number of things. The tolerance of a spinner would have to be crucial when manufacturing it, it's hard to control when you're talking about 50 ten millionths of an inch (.0005") on a 100/50. Then you have the tolerance of the diamond coating. If either of these 2 tolerances are at their extremes you could easily get different results. It's commonly referred to as tolerance stackup. Another reason could be the wheel arbor on your X-01. Mine was way out causing a wheel hop that I felt was enough to really change the profile of an FBV. I think this will be more of an issue when the FBV becomes more common. Right now how many of us are getting an FBV done by 2 or more different places? Most people who are on FBV are getting it done at one place, by a single spinner, producing repeatable results. If you tried another spinner, and even another machine, you are bound to have a different result. Especially if you are comparing an X-01 and a tabletop machine, different spinners altogether. It may or may not be noticeable. Try this. Next time you do your buddy's skates, measure the thickness of his blades if you can. You'll have to use a micrometer or a set of dial calipers. Take measurements in a few spots too, and on both blades. Then measure the thickness of your blades the same way. The FBV profile will change slightly depending on the thickness of the blades. I'm willing to bet that you will see different thicknesses between your steel and your buddy's.

dpt, I recently exchanged my standard holder for the upgraded one. The cost was $100, plus I had to pay to ship my holder back to BS. The new holder is much better than the old one. I did a bunch of modifications to the old holder to make it better, but the clamping was still inconsistent compared to the new one. And to mnpuckers point, I was experiencing the same problem of the boot resting on the pitch knob if it was a men's size skate. Jr. skates were far easier to do since they weigh less. I'm very surprised they gave you an ultimatum that you had to order the upgraded holder today, maybe he meant they wouldn't be offering the upgrade to you if you didn't purchase the upgraded holder at the time of the machine? I can understand that. If you buy an X-01, get the upgraded holder for another $100, it's worth it. All that being said, I wouldn't shy away from a Wissota either. It's a proven machine that will do what you want it to do, and last for years and years. You will save money on expendables like grinding wheels and be able to do any hollow you want without buying new spinners. If you really wanted to do FBV you could have a jig made up that holds the spinner. I even heard that Wissota has something like this already, but I haven't seen it. Don't let the masses here persuade you to purchase an X-01, aside from FBV right out of the box, there is nothing the Wissota can't do, and you will be able to do any ROH you want.

AfftonDad, the problem you are seeing is with the wheel arbor. I had the same problem and took the arbor off of the machine to take some measurements. The part of the arbor that the wheel sits on is out of round, in my case by about .012", causing a wobbling effect that can only be taken out by re-dressing the wheel. I ended up turning that part of the arbor down in a lathe and making a shim to take up the material I removed. That being said, I don't switch wheels for each spinner, like Chadd said, it shouldn't remove that much material.