chiefs17

I haven't found one yet and ended up buying 5 from BS to get the free shipping. They shouldn't cost more than the larger wheels but until somebody finds out who makes the wheels and where to get them for less we are stuck. I checked with Norton and they didn't have anything that was a stock size, so the cost was more. I was also checking to get something just a little larger, like 4 1/4" so they would last longer, no dice.

I just read the Blademaster pdf on their web site called "The truth about FBV". It's pretty interesting for sure. I wonder if Blackstone will go after them regarding patent issues. According to BM the flat bottom V has already been patented, so they are not infringing at all. I think the winner of this has to be the skater. We now have 2 choices of flat bottom contours, plus the standard ROH. If you can't find a profile that you like, just wait, I'm sure somebody else will be releasing yet another new profile.

AfftonDad, here is my opinion on your questions. 1. I believe the darker region of the wheel is from using the liquid stuff (fine shine?). That keeps the blade cooler during your final pass, so you can go slower ultimately giving you a better finish. I used to think you had to totally get rid of the black from the wheel, but I've changed my mind on that since burning through my first 2 wheels rather quickly. I think that the liquid permeates the grain of the grinding wheel and makes it turn black, but does not have to be completely removed. Just a light touch of the spinner should give you a fresh surface. 2. This one is tougher to answer. I usually do a redress only once per skate, or sometimes only once per pair of skates. It's easy to get over cautious and end up constantly redressing the wheel. I've been trying to cut down on that, as long as my finish is still good without redressing. 3. I've had the metal guard off of my machine since it was new without any adverse effects. This will give you much longer life out of the wheels. I make sure to clean the spinner mechanism with a vacuum as much as possible, especially when changing the spinners. Another thing you can do to get more sharpenings out of a wheel is to remove the front two corners of the aluminum baseplate on the X-10 holder. When my first wheel wore down too much I couldn't get the holder close enough to the wheel for a pass without the corner of the baseplate hitting the motor housing. I just made a 45 angle cut and took about 1" off both corners.

I have a question. How do you know when a spinner is all used up? Thanks.

Klemer, is the stone centered on the spinner? The wheel arbor can be moved up and down, and there is no measurement to tell if it's in the right location, other than visually looking at how it lines up with the spinner. If you do decide to move the arbor, there are 2 set screws in it. One that contacts the motor shaft, and the other one is there to lock the first set screw in place. One other question. How are you visually seeing a deeper hollow with the fbv sharpening?

It looks like the spinners are still free to spin in that fixture, so shouldn't be too difficult to control the pressure. I guess if it was a problem, the fixture could be designed as 2 pieces. One part is stationary in the skate holder, then connected to that is a threaded rod with a knob so you could just turn it into the wheel. Hope that makes sense. I was thinking of possible patent problems with Blackstone. They have the patent on the fbv, so is it ok to make one of these fixtures and use it to put an fbv on a skate blade?

That actually looks really clever. I don't think you would have to make a pass at all. You should be able to just touch the spinner to the grinding wheel and you're done. The nice thing about this jig is you can have several spinners attached to it and just touch the one you want to the wheel. Also, it should work with any holder, and any machine since the spinner holder gets clamped in the skate clamp. It will always be at the right height. Sure beats $1700 for a single holder. You can probably have something like that whipped up at a machine shop for $100, then it's just the cost of the spinners. I wonder what, if any, patent implications of something like this presents.

Yes, they certainly are going to make a fortune selling those at $1700! I wonder if a shop would be better off buying an X02 to use as a dedicated FBV machine.

Steve, I am happy with my machine now that I've fixed the issues that I had with it. I'm just trying to help other people that are having the same problems because I know I was very frustrated with it before it was sorted out. Just because the parts are CNC machined and measure within spec doesn't mean they are good parts. I think the tolerance of that arbor needs to be tightened up. I was seeing .012" of runout where it should be less than .005. This is very easily attainable on a CNC without any additional cost to make the part. Thanks for offering to speak with me.

mckjim, I agree with everything you say, except the part about not being able to produce an arbor and grinding wheel that is 100% true right out of the box. The arbor is a machined part that is turned in a lathe. If the center hole were bored while still in the lathe it should be perfect. I'm not sure how they are getting parts that are drilled off center and at an angle. You would have to drill that hole by hand to get it that screwed up, doesn't make sense to me. Re-dressing the wheel will not remove the up and down hop of the wheel, it will just make the grinding wheel out of round causing a bigger vibration. Totally agree with the purchase price of these machines, they are at the low end of the skate sharpening world. I just think some things could be fixed without changing the end cost of the machine.

Squashguy, I contacted Blackstone about it and they sent me a new arbor, but it had the same amount of wheel hop because the center hole was drilled non-concentric, and also at an angle, just like the first one. I ended up having to have the center hole of the arbor drilled out on a lathe to correct the wheel hop. Then I made a shim to make it a tight fit on the motor shaft. Now the only vibration I get is because the arbor nut is also drilled non-concentric. It's mild enough to still get a good sharpening, but could easily have been prevented. It's definitely a quality control issue. Having good customer service is great, and I think every company should. But if they are not recognizing and fixing the QC issues then it doesn't improve anything, and just puts more pressure on their own CS department. PM me if you want more info on the arbor fix, or surface grinding the lower posts on the holder.

I'm not surprised by this at all. They are helpful in troubleshooting when you call, but they don't seem to care that the quality of the various parts of the machine and holder is poor. Most of the quality issues are very easy to control, and wouldn't cost much to correct, if anything. I don't think the holders are checked on a machine before they are sent out. I basically had to rebuild mine, including surface grinding the anvil posts to make them even heights with each other. Squashguy, have you noticed any wheel hop on your X01? A good way to see it is after you shut the machine off, watch the wheel slow down and come to a stop. The slower the wheel is spinning, the easier it is to notice the wheel hop. Mine was out of round and the center hole of the arbor was drilled at an angle so the wheel would hop up and down and in and out causing a wicked vibration. Just curious if anyone else had this problem.

They say on the Blackstone FBV web site that it is patent pending, both the FBV and the Spinner dressing system. Who owns the patent? If they went through the trouble and cost of getting a patent for the fbv, then they probably covered all bases and included flat bottom radius cuts as well. They even mention the flat bottom radius in the tech article on the fbv site. I seriously doubt that Blademaster would pursue something like fbv before checking to see if Blackstone has the patent on it. If Blackstone simply purchased the right to use the fbv from the inventor, or original owner of the patent, then Blademaster may be able to use it as long as they purchase the rights too. If Blackstone was smart, they would have signed a contract with the owner of the patent (if it is not them) to give them exclusivity. In which case Blademaster is screwed! Should be interesting to see the outcome.

The X02 spins at 6900 RPM and the X01 spins at 5500 RPM. The X02 is larger and heavier, and has a larger table top, all of which are good things. The skate holders are the same on both, as well as the spinners they use. I couldn't justify the X02's larger price difference so the X01 suits me well. I had at least one person ask about the screw I used for the clamp so here is the link. http://www.mcmaster.com/#90210a111/=1k06vd It was around $6 plus shipping, or if you have a McMaster Carr distributor locally you can probably get it delivered there and save the shipping costs. I removed the burr that was left in the cam arm from the original screw using a grinding wheel, a Dremel would work too. That will give the new screw a good finish to seat against. The smooth operation of the new screw will allow you to get repeatable clamping force which is important for getting repeatable results going from skate to skate, or even when checking the edges for squareness before doing a final pass. This seems to be more of a problem with larger, heavier skates as the holder will sag with the weight of the boot.

Well I own an X01 and I did have some issues with it that I ended up fixing myself because Blackstone said they never saw, or heard of, the same problems I had. The holder is not a high quality piece and I ended up having to grind the two bottom posts to make them even with each other. I've heard of this with other holders as well, so I'm not the only one. I also replaced the cam screw that was digging into the cam and causing a groove. I used a screw that has a rotating tip that can also angle to follow the cam. Big improvement. The second issue was the arbor that holds the wheel was drilled at an angle and also not concentric, so the grinding wheel had a slight hop to it that would cause a bad vibration. They sent me a new arbor, same problem, so I sent the original arbor back to them to check out. Haven't heard anything yet, that was about 2 months ago... I ended up re-drilling the center hole of the arbor and making a shim to fit the motor shaft. The machine is almost perfect now. The only problem left is the arbor nut is also drilled non-concentric so there is still a bit of vibration. The motor is nice, and so is the table top. The batgage takes a little getting used to and I probably wouldn't purchase it again, I would go with the quick square or pro square from Blademaster I think?. The bottom line is if you want FBV they are the only game in town.

JR, what kind of holder issues are you having with the X02? Thanks.

So 80/50 has even less bite than a 90/50 I guess. Seems like that one wouldn't be too popular.

OK, I'll be the first to ask. Where does 80/50 fit into the other 4 spinners as far as sharpness? Thanks.

Question for the sharpeners out there. Has anyone had trouble with the 100/75? What I'm saying is, I can get even edges according to the Bat Gage, but when I skate, the edge feels good in some spots, and dull in others. I'm also dealing with steel that measures about .110" thick, with a .100" flat on the FBV, that only gives me .005" on either edge. There's not a lot of room for error. I would imagine that if the steel is tweaked even the slightest bit, that could wipe out the edge in that spot, maybe that's what I'm feeling. Thanks for the help.

Tried the FBV and all I can say is WOW! I had the 100/75 and it did feel a little sharper than 3/8" at first, but that might be because I hadn't had my skates done in a while. That, or the type of edge felt just a little different, not a problem as I got used to it in about 5 minutes. I agree with everyone's comments about the glide, and will add another point. It feels like ruts and imperfections in the ice are not as noticeable with the FBV. I think by having more friction with a traditional hollow at 3/8", you really feel all of those ruts and imperfection more. With FBV you sort of coast over them. Did anyone else notice that? Oh yeah, scored a hat trick in my first game using the FBV, so it has to be good, right?

Anyone in CT that is doing this FBV yet? I'd like to try it out. Or are there any shops that will do a mail order turn around on steel? Thanks.

OK, here's another question. Can you do goalie skates with this FBV grind? Will it hinder, help, or neither? I have a son that's a goalie, so I'd want to be able to do his skates, along with my player skates, without too much hassle. Thanks.

I'd like to buy a used Wissota. Let me know if you're serious.

Thank you, that was exactly what I was looking for.

SAK, is ther any news on the shipping date of the X01's, and also what is this new technology that I keep hearing about called FBV? I'm ready to buy a sharpener, but I need to know these things first. Thanks.