Oversized water bottles?

[hockechamp14 0]

i find t-nation to be very biased.

i feel that for hockey and other endurance sports, you are not going to gain muscle mass, so your first priority should be replenishing and re-hydrating your self (i do like cyto-max for this, best i have found so far although it has its faults) and then after this is under control get your protein.

I do too as far as the bias goes, but I still think that doesn't reflect thier writers. Thibaudeau and Berardi are especially useful to ANY athlete. I think when reading it you just have to keep your own goals in mind.

Hydration can happen any time before your next activity but the oportunity to recover your muscles to make them stronger and larger if you wish is best after your activity, and an hour later.

What do you like so much about Cytomax? Is it similar to Accelerade or is it something different? It also has maltodextrin in it which you said wasn't ideal, so what in your opinion is ideal?

[Iceblade 0]

Check out a good bike shop, they have all different types and sizes of water bottles to choose from...

Those were the first places I tried. Unfortunately, all the ones they have are of the bike-size variety... i.e. only like 20-24 oz. Same goes with the area sporting goods places... at least around here.

Thanks,

Jeff

[nni 0]

i find t-nation to be very biased.

i feel that for hockey and other endurance sports, you are not going to gain muscle mass, so your first priority should be replenishing and re-hydrating your self (i do like cyto-max for this, best i have found so far although it has its faults) and then after this is under control get your protein.

I do too as far as the bias goes, but I still think that doesn't reflect thier writers. Thibaudeau and Berardi are especially useful to ANY athlete. I think when reading it you just have to keep your own goals in mind.

Hydration can happen any time before your next activity but the oportunity to recover your muscles to make them stronger and larger if you wish is best after your activity, and an hour later.

What do you like so much about Cytomax? Is it similar to Accelerade or is it something different? It also has maltodextrin in it which you said wasn't ideal, so what in your opinion is ideal?

ive tried accelerade, and just feel cytomax does a better job. taking some bcaa's or eaa's would also work well, i just find it a little more inconvenient during competition. this is more of a gatorade alternative, and not a post workout shake.

i prefer a solid meal post workout with a protein shake. i find for me that is more effective.

i agree both writers are good, but i dont like t-nation particularly.

like i said malto isnt ideal, but it isnt bad. if you are creating your own blend, then you don't necessarily need the malto, but if you are drinking a pre-blend, then go for it. i plan on doing some tinkering with glycine and other alternatives.

again, in my opinion, the protein to carb ratio is ideal after a workout, but i feel it most applies to a bodybuilding type workout. the timing varies from person to person but it is more important to take your time to rehydrate after a game than to quickly throw down some protein and carbs. after all, unless you are new, hockey really isnt a muscle building exercise, so keeping the machine in order is more important because the growth capabilites arent as large as after an intense weightlifting session.

[nni 0]

Check out a good bike shop, they have all different types and sizes of water bottles to choose from...

Those were the first places I tried. Unfortunately, all the ones they have are of the bike-size variety... i.e. only like 20-24 oz. Same goes with the area sporting goods places... at least around here.

Thanks,

Jeff

what about a sporting goods store, like dicks or sports authority?

i bought one from dick's for $2.50 and it is a 32 oz'er.

[Iceblade 0]

I tried Sports Authority, Academy and one other place... /me scratches head. Didn't see anyting that really fit the bill. I'll try to stop by there again before this weekend.

As far as the post workout thing, hope I didn't imply that I did the PWO shake after anything OTHER than my weight workouts. I pretty much stick to Gatorade and water for hockey time and after. Try to steer clear of anything caffeinated both before, during and after. Every once in awhile I'll pop one of the Powerbar packets of energy gel. I get the vanilla, uncaffeinated version. Sometimes it helps.. sometimes not. More often than not, the heat in the rink is what contributes to my being pooped. Hence my need for a nice big bottle that is my "cold shower in a bottle".

Thanks,

Jeff

[Joker518 0]

here is something for you to consider post workout and a good read....

POSTWORKOUT

OBJECTIVE

the objective here is to raise insulin concentrations & get a head start on recovery by antagonizing cortisol & other catabolic elements, replenish water & glygogen, and restore levels of circulating amino acids. this is mistakenly viewed as the most important meal of the day, which is BS. why? because if you're not properly fueled prior to this point, your workout will suck. thus, it's equally important in the large scheme of things.

COMPOSITION

i'm not biased towards a shake-only postworkout philosophy, as long as either type contains a liquid component. 2 equally effective scenarios are:

scenario one: as soon as possible postworkout - or even at the tail end of the workout, say, 10-20 minutes before it's over. i start chugging my postworkout shake 60 minutes into my workout, regardless of how long my workout takes.

---- 30-60g protein (0.25g/lb target BW). whey again is pretty cheap & works great here. research shows that postworkout protein doesn't inhibit glycogen synthesis, and can improve protein synthesis. this means that you can hedge your anabolic & anticatabolic bets by taking in a sizable amount of protein postworkout. whey happens to be a highly insulinogenic protein, so this is ideal at this point.

---- 60-120g of high-GI carbs (0.5g/lb target BW), or a combination of types that ultimately averages to a high-GI rating (70 or above). dextrose & maltodextrin have traditionally been emphasized as ideal for postworkout because of their high-GI. however, i have issues with going pure dex for postworkout for a couple of reasons - and they have nothing to do with the threat of insulin resistance, because that whole scenario applies to a completely different population. first off, you can get some default dex within fruit or milk. secondly, pure dex has no micronutrient density, and i've said it before, antioxidant micronutrition is grossly under-emphasized whenever postworkout nutrition is discussed. dex is a fine addition to your postworkout carb arsenal, but to go pure dex for the largest carb hit of your day doesn't make sense from a micronutrient density standpoint - especially when dex is contained in other foods that are more nutrient dense and are still either high-GI or highly insulinemic.

thinly rolled non-prepacketed oats (which many don't realize have a GI of appx 65-75 as opposed to the low-GI the steel-cut or old-fashioned type) plus dex is achieving the best of both worlds, but that's theoretical ground. NOTE: old fashioned/slow-cooked oats + dex in a 1:1 still yields a GI that crosses the threshold of high. adding fruit to your postworkout mix of carbs can potentially benefit folks who train with a high volume & do a lot of cardio (ie, precontest). the protection of liver glycogen status under such conditions can maintain the centrally neurologic signaling of the "fed state" and hence prevent lean tissue catabolism -- especially during hypocaloric balance.

okay, so to be practical, simple examples are: 1/2-1 cup dry oats + 30-50g dex (OR) 1/2 cup dry oats + 40g dex + 1 banana. these are just 2 examples out of many possibilities. i see nothing wrong with using high-moderate to high-GI carbs other than dex/malto, as long as the average GI of the combo is near or greater than 70. nitpicky theoretics aside, anything 65 or above on the GI scale (like the thinly rolled plain oats which people mistakenly think is in the low GI category) will likely have very similar real-world effectiveness as higher-GI choices. but remember, this is a discussion of optima, thus, we are scrutinizing the minutia and elucidating what might provide the edge.

---- as little fat as possible is best postworkout, because you don't want to blunt insulin output at this point.

---- milk considerations: whether or not you add milk to your postworkout shake depends upon personal preference and tolerance. the cons of milk are that many folks have some degree of lactose intolerance or milk allergy, and therefore are excluded from the possibility. the pros of milk postworkout are that it's highly insulinogenic, contains 6g dex per cup, and is a potent anabolic/anticatabolic substance that has outperformed whey in human research thus far.

scenario two: ASAP postworkout - a solid-food meal consisting of:

---- 30-60g protein (0.25g/lb target BW) in the form of lean flesh, all types are fine, 5-8oz suffices.

---- 60-120g high-moderate to high-GI polysaccharide carbs (0.5g/lb target BW), good examples are white or brown rice (yes most brown rice is high-GI), and all types of potatoes & breads. my bias and preference here is to include a serving of higher-glucose fresh fruit, such as grapes, banana, or pineapple - for micronutrient/antioxidant purposes as well as extra glucose (we should all know by now that the fructose contribution of fruit, at 4-7g on average per serving, is insignificant). another wrinkle to add here is that berries as a group have more antioxidant potential than other fruits. this confers benefit despite their lower concentration of glucose compared to grapes, pineapples, & bananas. so, don't worry if you choose other fruit than the higher-glucose ones postworkout; you're still winning out in the antioxidant arena.

---- water or milk, pick your poison.. a word about fruit juice: while i am not against small amounts of fructose from whole fruit for maintaining/replenishing liver glycogen, fruit juice on the other hand tends to cross the line of excess in terms of fructose, and you miss out on much of the beneficial phytochemicals & oxygen radical suppressors in whole fruit.

---- once again, keep fat to a minimum.

now.. can you exceed 120g carbs or 60g protein postworkout? of course! your training program, body mass, & physiology may actually scream for it. this is merely a point of reference for the masses to digest, absorb, & process accordingly (gotta love corny nutrition puns). for the few competitive endurance athletes who might read this, consider the rather whopping 1.0g/lb a starting point for your postworkout carb intake. protein need is sufficiently met with the standard guideline of 0.25g/lb.

ESOTERIC RAMBLINGS

a word about high or low-GI postworkout.. this is a topic that has sparked debate mainly from a finding by jentjens & colleagues showing the biphasic nature of glycogenesis (30-60min insulin-independent initial phase, followed by an insulin-dependent phase lasting several hours). this has led some sugarphobic folks to strive for low-GI foods postworkout thinking that high insulin concentrations aren't necessary for maximal glycogen replenishment. well, the fact remains that although heightened insulin concentrations don't ultimately increase the total AMOUNT of glycogen replenishment, they definitely increase the SPEED of glycogen replenishment. this is of obvious benefit when the unavoidable overlap of muscular work (and hence need for rapid replenishment) is considered. another thing that's overlooked by low-GI PW advocates (jeez, that's so ridiculous i can't believe i just typed it), is that the 30-60 minute non-insulin-dependent phase is an ideal timeframe to absorb high-GI carbs immediately ingested postworkout and have them present & ready to coincide with the insulin-depended phase of glycogenesis - where the majority of total glycogenesis takes place. as an added bit of trivia, high-GI carbs are sooooo darn good at replenishing glycogen, that even a delay of 2hrs was not observed by parkin's research team to compromise total amount of glycogen replenishment (by the way, this is not recommended, i'm just driving a point). hopefully everyone realizes the importance of manipulating insulin for all aspects of anabolism & anticatabolism. there's much much more to this facet of discussion, but we'll leave it at that.

Uh, sometimes after games, I have a Slurpee at the 7-11. Usually its Sour Apple flavor but sometimes I feel a little crazy and have the coke flavor.

9 out of 10 Dietician dudes recommend taking your Slurpee in slow and paced sips to avoid the dreaded "Brain-Freeze".

Oh yea, and Malto is total garbage, like that other dude said.

[bwear 0]

I don't know if you have a Big-5 Sporting Goods near you, but they have the 32-oz straw top squeeze bottles pretty cheap. Very conveinent for sipping through the mask.

[ken 0]

ive tried accelerade, and just feel cytomax does a better job. taking some bcaa's or eaa's would also work well, i just find it a little more inconvenient during competition. this is more of a gatorade alternative, and not a post workout shake.

i prefer a solid meal post workout with a protein shake. i find for me that is more effective.

i agree both writers are good, but i dont like t-nation particularly.

like i said malto isnt ideal, but it isnt bad. if you are creating your own blend, then you don't necessarily need the malto, but if you are drinking a pre-blend, then go for it. i plan on doing some tinkering with glycine and other alternatives.

again, in my opinion, the protein to carb ratio is ideal after a workout, but i feel it most applies to a bodybuilding type workout. the timing varies from person to person but it is more important to take your time to rehydrate after a game than to quickly throw down some protein and carbs. after all, unless you are new, hockey really isnt a muscle building exercise, so keeping the machine in order is more important because the growth capabilites arent as large as after an intense weightlifting session.

I definitely agree with you on the Cytomax (and how you feel about t-nation actually).

Cytosport makes some great products. I love cytogainer and muscle milk.

Usually I just drink water when playing, but occasionally I will have cytomax. It is much better than gatorade/powerade, etc...

For me post workout consists of cytogainer (right now--bulking and gaining weight, otherwise, just whey protein), grilled chicken, brown rice and veggies.

I just play rec hockey, but my goals concentrate more on bodybuilding. Most here probably have a different opinion/routine if they concentrate more on training for hockey.

[gavin 0]

Two things here:

(1) Drinking water instead of lemonade mix, gatorade, Crystal Light, or Powerage doesn't "train you better," it only saves you some money. The idea that try to work on only water without those electrolytes makes you tougher is a more modern version of the fallacy that working out without ANY water will make you tougher... really stupid especially when you fall down go boom because you're dehydrated. How tough are you when you wake up in the hospital.

(2) Hockey is not an endurance sport. Triathalon, marathon, even biathalon and nordic skiing are endurance sports.

(3) If you do not replentish your salts (i.e. drinking sports drinks or even eating salt or salty chips) you can damage yourself. One summer I dehydrated myself so badly at soccer tryouts that by Saturday morning I couldn't walk. I felt better after drinking about 2 gallons of strong saline solution (hint: only drink saline solution if it DOESN'T taste salty at all: as soon as you can taste the salt, STOP).

[Iceblade 0]

I don't know if you have a Big-5 Sporting Goods near you, but they have the 32-oz straw top squeeze bottles pretty cheap. Very conveinent for sipping through the mask.

Never heard of them. I'll be stopping by my local sporting goods places again tonight or sometime this week when I get a chance. We'll see if their inventory has changed since last I looked. All I know if my LHS and rink pro shop are abysmal in this regard. Then again, the pro shop at the rink charges over MSRP on most items that they DO have in stock, and constantly are out of everything. "I need a large hockey jock." "Umm... let's see.. we got a kid's small.. will that work? We're all out of the adult ones. I've got a woman's medium pelvic protector though." Gee, thanks.

Thanks,

Jeff

[jrhky36 1]

What I'd like to see them make more often are wide-mouth water bottles. We have an ice maker on the fridge door; the ice fits into the wider mouth better, instead of hitting the edge and falling onto the floor.

i'll fill them about half way and put them in the freezer at a 45degree angle to freeze. and when i leave hope i remember them.

[jon93 0]

my lhs has there own and there pretty big

[hockechamp14 0]

i find t-nation to be very biased.

i feel that for hockey and other endurance sports, you are not going to gain muscle mass, so your first priority should be replenishing and re-hydrating your self (i do like cyto-max for this, best i have found so far although it has its faults) and then after this is under control get your protein.

I do too as far as the bias goes, but I still think that doesn't reflect thier writers. Thibaudeau and Berardi are especially useful to ANY athlete. I think when reading it you just have to keep your own goals in mind.

Hydration can happen any time before your next activity but the oportunity to recover your muscles to make them stronger and larger if you wish is best after your activity, and an hour later.

What do you like so much about Cytomax? Is it similar to Accelerade or is it something different? It also has maltodextrin in it which you said wasn't ideal, so what in your opinion is ideal?

ive tried accelerade, and just feel cytomax does a better job. taking some bcaa's or eaa's would also work well, i just find it a little more inconvenient during competition. this is more of a gatorade alternative, and not a post workout shake.

i prefer a solid meal post workout with a protein shake. i find for me that is more effective.

i agree both writers are good, but i dont like t-nation particularly.

like i said malto isnt ideal, but it isnt bad. if you are creating your own blend, then you don't necessarily need the malto, but if you are drinking a pre-blend, then go for it. i plan on doing some tinkering with glycine and other alternatives.

again, in my opinion, the protein to carb ratio is ideal after a workout, but i feel it most applies to a bodybuilding type workout. the timing varies from person to person but it is more important to take your time to rehydrate after a game than to quickly throw down some protein and carbs. after all, unless you are new, hockey really isnt a muscle building exercise, so keeping the machine in order is more important because the growth capabilites arent as large as after an intense weightlifting session.

a little late... but I thought I'd post it anyways.

John Berardi recently had a study approved about protein, carbs, and recovery. I thought it was very interesting.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...l=pubmed_docsum

I found it very interesting.