Getting in shape

[hock20 0]

are you sure? i have been told it helps your sprint speeds and there are studies i have read too...has anyone had real experience with creatine that they can comment? thanks

[gman 0]

are you sure? i have been told it helps your sprint speeds and there are studies i have read too...has anyone had real experience with creatine that they can comment? thanks

My real experience with creatine is that it does nothing at all. Whatever studies you read are other folk's "real experiences". I suggest you try it. If you want to and have already pretty much sold yourself on it by all means do it. As far as I know it will not hurt you. And if it has a placebo affect on you and motivates you to train harder and eat right and rest properly and therefore gives you better results, the I guess it will have worked.

[hock20 0]

hm, no im not sold on it just want comments from people who have used it around here. thanks for the input...anyone else?

[pantherfan 0]

Creatine is used by body builders to help them "Bulk" up to look good it helps the muscles carry more water making them look bigger

If you want supplements that actually add muscle mass then don't bother with creatine

If you dont wanna shell out on the "Wonder" drug creatine it is found in red meat

[hock20 0]

ok thanks, im going to stick with centrum and whey protein..

[gman 0]

ok thanks, im going to stick with centrum and whey protein..

Excellent choice :)

[gavin 0]

yeah creatine is the real deal. if you use it will help you with hockey, as long as you're working hard. It will make you more explosive. i used it more when i was into cyclisme.

Don't take the monohydrate creatine. You need to get the CEE creatine. I haven't used the stuff since 1999, but I remember putting it in drink bottles before long rides in the California desert, and my friend Ryan and I would come back after 3 hours of hard riding, and go do crazy sprints. It was like... how is my body doing this???? The stuff works.

Um, if you feel like you have shin splints, there is a possibility that you have lost too much electrolytes, from sweating too much. 5 years ago I was in a soccer camp for a week and I sweated so much that my legs felt like they were growing. My mom made me drink a few gallons of saline solution and sit down for a few hours, and BANG the pain was gone, and I had good energy. You can tell if you have salt deprivation if the saline water doesn't taste at all salty. As soon as you can taste the salt, stop drinking, it's bad for you.

I'm not surprised that your shin splints don't hurt when skating, I've seen guys that can't walk (ACL, MCL, discus, broken femur, shin spints, etc) skate all out in competetive hockey.

[gavin 0]

Creatine is used by body builders to help them "Bulk" up to look good it helps the muscles carry more water making them look bigger

If you want supplements that actually add muscle mass then don't bother with creatine

If you dont wanna shell out on the "Wonder" drug creatine it is found in red meat

That's not entirely true. Creatine does more than give you bulk, it gives you explosion, you can work out harder. Plus you can get the kind nowadays that doesn't make you retain water in your intermuscular sections.

You're right, other supplements are better at adding muscle mass. Like good protein supplements. But maybe he wants to be able to explode more on his powerlifting/skate more explosively? There are more things to training than just adding muscle mass. Being able to train harder is one of the purposes of supplements.

And futher, you're right about creatine being in red meat. I for one totally advocate a healthy diet as being the #1 thing to all types of training, and certainly eating red meat is part of that. But do you realize that protein is also in red meat? Just because you can get it in meat doesn't mean you shouldn't take a supplement. Because 1. meat can get really expensive, if you're eating more than one large lean steak a meal. 2. for me, mixing some protein powder with milk is more convenient than grilling up a steak, meaning I can take a large amount of protein when it's convenient, like right after I work out, right before I sleep, right before I nap etc etc. The same goes for creatine.

Supplements are just that, they supplement, not replace, a good diet of foods that contain creatine and protein and all that good stuff. But basically, you get what you pay for. If you buy some good protein it WILL help you put on muscle mass. If you buy some creatine, you WILL be able to put up more weight on the squat rack and so forth.

[SB39 2]

For shin splints: try to run more on your toes, which means push your hips a bit forward while running and don't stride as far infront of you. At home, you can help recovery by crunching up newspaper with your toes.

Pantherfan and gman: if you haven't studied supplements and/or used them, don't talk. Creatine, in most any form, will help, provided you are working hard enough to create a potential need for it. As for getting it in red meat, yes it is there, but in minute amounts compared to what you would supplement with. As for CEE, creatine ethyl ester, it has great reviews. I haven't used it enough to comment, but I will soon. It doesn't have the trademark bloating effect that monohydrate has, and you take much less of it (+-5 grams a day), and it has a much higher conversion rate in the body; those +-5 grams are much more effective than taking 10-20 grams of mono a day. Take 2-3 grams pre and post workout for optimal effects.

Another clutch way to aid recovery and strength gain is by using ZMA. Zinc and Magnesium Aspartate is the form its sold in, but you can by Zinc Magnesium, and B6 tablets separately at a drug store for much less and take them in the proper proportion, before you go to bed and before any dairy since they compete with Calcium for receptors, and it will aid your sleep and give you trippy dreams.

[gavin 0]

Woah I'm interested in this ZMA stuff. Trippy dreams? Dude when I'm training hard I get really trippy dreams anyways, today I was napping and I had a dream about all my friends on a pickup truck (like 10-20 of them) and a grand piano on the back and Dave's playing it and they're driving all around.

OK but one thing I didn't understand... you take it before dairy... like to help absorb calcium? Or before as in.. not at the same time, so they don't conflict?

[gman 0]

For shin splints: try to run more on your toes, which means push your hips a bit forward while running and don't stride as far infront of you. At home, you can help recovery by crunching up newspaper with your toes.

Pantherfan and gman: if you haven't studied supplements and/or used them, don't talk. Creatine, in most any form, will help, provided you are working hard enough to create a potential need for it. As for getting it in red meat, yes it is there, but in minute amounts compared to what you would supplement with. As for CEE, creatine ethyl ester, it has great reviews. I haven't used it enough to comment, but I will soon. It doesn't have the trademark bloating effect that monohydrate has, and you take much less of it (+-5 grams a day), and it has a much higher conversion rate in the body; those +-5 grams are much more effective than taking 10-20 grams of mono a day. Take 2-3 grams pre and post workout for optimal effects.

Another clutch way to aid recovery and strength gain is by using ZMA. Zinc and Magnesium Aspartate is the form its sold in, but you can by Zinc Magnesium, and B6 tablets separately at a drug store for much less and take them in the proper proportion, before you go to bed and before any dairy since they compete with Calcium for receptors, and it will aid your sleep and give you trippy dreams.

Classic shin splints are caused by excess strain on unconditioned connective tissues surrounding the calf and connecting to the tibia and to a lesser degree the fibula. If you run on the toes you will increase the strain on the calf, thereby increasing the severity/discomfort of the shinsplint. I know of people who have gotten shin splints from playing the drums. Hitting the base pedal eight billion times is too much if you are not used to it. If you are having shin trouble from heel pounding that is another matter entirely. Crunching newspaper with your toes is great for plantar fasciitis.

I am assuming you are passionate about this subject and therefore am forgiving your rudeness. I have actually studied supplements and used them quite extensively. From everything I have experienced and read and discovered on my own, the vast majority of supplements, including creatine, do nothing more than deflate your wallet. If you can get a balanced diet and rest appropriately, you will be better off than forcing your body to digest chalk.

However you look at human history, we have never been in a situation to be forced to utilize chalk or other "scientifcically advanced" forms of food. We can get by on this stuff, but there are so many intricate processes that take place between the point of swallowing and building muscle that we, in all honesty, do not understand how it all works. We have ideas and hypothesis and they all sound really good, but any proof you see is purely anecdotal.

Gavin, I have had the same experience with salt water. I drank a bunch of it after a huge day of climbing hills in northern california and did not even notice the salt taste. I tried some of the same solution the next day and almost barfed. It is really amazing how your body knows what it needs.

[hock20 0]

A lot of good stuff in this topic, the shin splints are almost gone i have been icing them and there good now. As far as creatine i got some Kre-Alkalyn which is the latest and newer then the CEE and has no water weight with it. I think im going to use it since im told there are no side effects to worry about such as water weight and cramping. I used mono while skating for a while and felt like crap with my legs full of water..hopfully kre alkalyn will do what all the reviews say, great strength and recovery and no bloating or size difference. Ill try it and let you guys know how it goes.

Wrestlers have been using kre alkalyn now because they couldnt cut weight with monohydrate from all the water, so there are tons of reviews by wrestlers.

[hock20 0]

bump might start the kre alkalyn since no water retention...all u get is energy and strength

[tume 0]

But guys I know who are even say that creatine is BUNK.  It may help you holdon to water so it will make you look bigger, but it does nothing for performance.  Save your money...

I have actually studied supplements and used them quite extensively. From everything I have experienced and read and discovered on my own, the vast majority of supplements, including creatine, do nothing more than deflate your wallet. If you can get a balanced diet and rest appropriately, you will be better off than forcing your body to digest chalk.

Damn, if you don't know about positive effects of creatine maybe you shouldn't tell it's bunk? You think it's positive effect is to make you bigger (creatine water bloat)? I am not even going to list positive effects of creatine (again) for athletes (not to mention people working out at the gym), so I will just throw you a link Wikipedia Creatine.

I workout at gym and play hockey and I definitely feel the benefits of creatine. I have used CEE (Creatine Ethyl Ester) and monohydrate. Maybe monohydrate just doesn't work for you. I have heard about many cases in which monohydrate doesn't work for a person but CEE will. So maybe you should try CEE (if you haven't). But most of all, please don't guide with these facts of yours if you don't have any factual/scientific proof. Makes me go .

[pantherfan 0]

This has to be the most confusing diagram i have ever seen! :P

[gavin 0]

K I've used creatine but never for hockey specifically. Anybody taken creatine ( the alkalyn or CEE type to prevent water retention blah blah) right before practice or a game? Theoretically it should give you a quick step/good explosion eh?

[Gongshow11 1]

K I've used creatine but never for hockey specifically. Anybody taken creatine ( the alkalyn or CEE type to prevent water retention blah blah) right before practice or a game? Theoretically it should give you a quick step/good explosion eh?

it would dehydrate you as per every intake of creatine you must supplement it with water. you'd probably be stiff and hurt yourself

[pantherfan 0]

KK what would you reccomend him instaed of Creatine?

[gman 0]

But guys I know who are even say that creatine is BUNK.  It may help you holdon to water so it will make you look bigger, but it does nothing for performance.  Save your money...

I have actually studied supplements and used them quite extensively. From everything I have experienced and read and discovered on my own, the vast majority of supplements, including creatine, do nothing more than deflate your wallet. If you can get a balanced diet and rest appropriately, you will be better off than forcing your body to digest chalk.

Damn, if you don't know about positive effects of creatine maybe you shouldn't tell it's bunk? You think it's positive effect is to make you bigger (creatine water bloat)? I am not even going to list positive effects of creatine (again) for athletes (not to mention people working out at the gym), so I will just throw you a link Wikipedia Creatine.

I workout at gym and play hockey and I definitely feel the benefits of creatine. I have used CEE (Creatine Ethyl Ester) and monohydrate. Maybe monohydrate just doesn't work for you. I have heard about many cases in which monohydrate doesn't work for a person but CEE will. So maybe you should try CEE (if you haven't). But most of all, please don't guide with these facts of yours if you don't have any factual/scientific proof. Makes me go .

This is from the Wikipedia site:

"There is scientific evidence that taking creatine supplements can marginally increase athletic performance in high-intensity anaerobic repetitive cycling sprints, but studies in swimmers and runners have been less than promising, .... Ingesting creatine can increase the level of phosphocreatine in the muscles up to 20%. It must be noted creatine has no significant effect on aerobic exercise (Engelhardt et al, 1998)."

You do realize that any schmoe can put stuff on Wikipedia don't you? It does not define "marginally". Do you know off hand? You challenge my lack of scientific proof. All you have on your side is "marginal" affectiveness and anecdotal evidence. You are far more burdened with proof when you try to encourage someone to shell out big bucks and put chemicals in their body to magically improve their athletic performance than I am by urging caution.

If you think the stuff works for you, that is fine. The Wikipedia article had alot of fancy sounding words, but nothing that a basic freshman college physiology course would not define. I'm not impressed.

I stand by my original assertion that there is no irrefutable evidence supporting terrific gains due to creatine in any form. If it appears to work for you, that is great. If the CEE stuff works that is fine too. I do not think it is any less responsible for me to encourage caution on taking this sh!tuff than it is for you to guarantee terrific results and unbelievable gains taking it.

The Wikipedia article references past olympic champions who use creatine. Does this mean that creatine made them champions? I am not sure, but it is likely that at one time in their lives they probably ate carrots and drank milk. Perhaps they even did that during the events. How come we are not rushing out to eat carrots and drink milk as the next wonder-program since these athletes did it? Do you see where this is heading?

If you twist the logic around the other way, you can make the justifiable statement that "every human who has ever died in late childhood and older has at one time or another consumed water. Therefore water must be the cause of all human death". This does not make sense any more than asserting that a man-made shemical in the form of a powder, when dissolved in water or fruit juice, will absolutley and most assuredly improve your athletic performance.

The creatine does not jump in to your thigh muscles and let you squat more weight. Your body has to be trained, fed and rested to improve its performance. If you are taking something that you think helps you recover faster then you may be inclined to workout harder, eat better, stay more hydrated, and therefore you will improve. Which comes first may or may not be an issue. The point is that you improve your performance. I just hate to see anyone shell out big bucks on supplements when they would be better off spending a little more time in the gym. They think they are going to be guaranteed improvements over and above what they would get if they just trained hard, ate right and rested. I think they are setting themselves up for failure.

Have you ever seen any of the guys who are long termers in the prison system? Those guys are huge! They have alot of weights to move, alot of time to lift, and alot of downtime to recover. I am pretty sure they do not have the latest scientifically formulated meals and expensive supplements in the mess hall.

I appreciate your passion and entheusiasm. It makes me go :lol:

[hock20 0]

Ya, I train 4-5 days a week in the gym..im going to take a low dose, probably 1g or 3/4 of a g since my muscles are still saturated with monohydrate from 2 weeks ago when i stopped. The kre alk is absorbed much better so I will get the whole 1g equivilant to taking about 8g of monohydrate because only about 1g is absorbed into the muscles.

[tume 0]

You do realize that any schmoe can put stuff on Wikipedia don't you? It does not define "marginally". Do you know off hand? You challenge my lack of scientific proof. All you have on your side is "marginal" affectiveness and anecdotal evidence. You are far more burdened with proof when you try to encourage someone to shell out big bucks and put chemicals in their body to magically improve their athletic performance than I am by urging caution.

Bleh, I just threw in that Wikipedia link, if you use Google you can find n+1 researches about creatine and its effects. Go and read if you are interested. And I wasn't saying creatine is some kind of "wonder supplement". I don't think it is. But when used along with a proper diet and a training program, one will have those positive effects (assuming fe. monohydrate works for that specific person).

[warrior37 0]

id like to know a little bit more about this ZMA fellas, anyone using it or having anything good or bad to say?

[gavin 0]

K I've used creatine but never for hockey specifically. Anybody taken creatine ( the alkalyn or CEE type to prevent water retention blah blah) right before practice or a game? Theoretically it should give you a quick step/good explosion eh?

it would dehydrate you as per every intake of creatine you must supplement it with water. you'd probably be stiff and hurt yourself

I thought only monohydrate would dyhydrate you.

[gman 0]

And I wasn't saying creatine is some kind of "wonder supplement". I don't think it is. But when used along with a proper diet and a training program, one will have those positive effects (assuming fe. monohydrate works for that specific person).

Sounds like we are mostly on the same page then.

Cheers

[hock20 0]

here you go, all about ZMA it draws your spare testosterone into the muscles and such I guess...i have talked to people who swear by it

"Don't get me started! There is a large body of scientific evidence supportive of ZMA. Zinc and Magnesium are commonly depleted from your body. Studies have shown that supplementing with 30mg of Zinc and 450mg of Magnesium per day can elevate testosterone levels up to 30%!"

Specifically, Brilla reported that "a group of competitive NCAA football players who took ZMA nightly during an eight-week spring training program had 2.5 times greater muscle strength gains than a placebo group. (250% better results!) Pre and post leg strength measurements were made using a Biodex isokinetic dynamometer." The strength of the ZMA group increased by 11.6% compared to only a 4.6% increase in the placebo group.

The ZMA group had 30% increases in free and total testosterone levels compared to 10 percent decreases in the placebo group...

Im going to buy some, I have heard too much good about it...

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/zma.html