Wisdom in Honor of Memorial Day

[DaveTheWave 0]

"I'm not so naive or simplistic to believe we can eliminate war. We're not going to change human nature any time soon. It isn't that we aren't rational. We are rational. But reason has limits. There's a quote from T.S. Eliot that I just love: 'We shall not cease from exploring, and at the end of our exploration, we will return to where we started, and know the place for the first time.' Now that's in a sense where I'm beginning to be."

-Robert McNamara

Total numbers of coalition fatalities and wounded were posted here and were removed by a mod. I don't agree with this at all. Please read my posts below.

If you are interested: http://icasualties.org/oif/

[mnitishin 0]

yeah, all we can do is hope that someday everyone can find a common ground and end all the hatred there is in the world.

[NashvillePreds 1]

"I'm not so naive or simplistic to believe we can eliminate war. We're not going to change human nature any time soon. It isn't that we aren't rational. We are rational. But reason has limits. There's a quote from T.S. Eliot that I just love: 'We shall not cease from exploring, and at the end of our exploration, we will return to where we started, and know the place for the first time.' Now that's in a sense where I'm beginning to be."

-Robert McNamara

Fog of War is a great movie. Old Bob is/was a smart ole' fox.

[Chadd 916]

“Peace is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with itâ€

George Bernard Shaw

[Grinder 2]

They shall not grow old as we who are left grow old.

Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning,

We will remember them.

Lest we forget.

[mrusse01 0]

Fog of War is a great movie....I highly highly suggest anyone who hasn't see it to do so.

Love or hate his politics, but McNamara is insanely smart, and one of the best speakers I've ever heard. You think a film with an old man talking the entire thing would be boring, but its not, first time I saw it I watched it and then restarted the DVD and watched the entire thing again.

[DaveTheWave 0]

For anyone interested:

Hey Dave,

I appreciate your post honoring the brave vets who risked their lives.

But I don't want the Iraq figures to be taken out of context....This is a day we should remember those from all wars who risked their lives for this country or for the good of the world.  Just having casualties from one war was not appropriate.

I hope you understand,

Thanks

(mod that erased the stats)

Hey (Mod that erased the stats),

I understand the merits of your concern about a comprehensive rememberance. Nonetheless, my intent was not to remember everyone in a single post. Maybe people will add to my post with their own thoughts and insights. I think that the figures for Iraq need to be put out there, especially on a day like this because of their immediate relevance. I put them at the end of the quote for people to interpret for themselves, and at the least it serves to encourage people to remember that a segment of our generation is still fighting a war over there. I have a more compelling reason to single out Iraq because young men and women my age are dying or coming back wounded and it hits home. I did quote McNamara however, who was a force from WWII all the way to Vietnam if that serves as any consolation. Are you familiar with him and the movie I quoted from?

-DavetheWave

[DaveTheWave 0]

I did have figures of fatalities and wounded below the photo. I don't agree with them having been removed. I believe censorship such as this is counterproductive: it keeps people from discussing and understanding the magnitude/meaning of the war. Not a happy MSH'er right now... even though this is not a political forum this stuff shouldn't be erased.

I think what is inappropriate is a lack of tolerance for discussion.

[foppa21 0]

"When You Go Home, Tell Them Of Us And Say,

For Their Tomorrow, We Gave Our Today"

[foppa21 0]

I think that Vapor wants his soapbox back for his latest Apple thread.

[hattrick74 0]

the problem with posting stats from one war is that one is using it as propaganda for their view on the war. even at the slightest degree, it is still propaganda because memorial day is for all casualites from all US wars, not just the most prevalent one.

[DaveTheWave 0]

the problem with posting stats from one war is that one is using it as propaganda for their view on the war.  even at the slightest degree, it is still propaganda because memorial day is for all casualites from all US wars, not just the most prevalent one.

Sure, that's all things constant. The discussion aspect of this forum software makes it so anyone can reply to it with what they think. My post was not and could not be a be all end all statement. I mentioned above that I welcome anyone to post rememberance of other wars.

[kosydar 0]

Not a happy MSH'er right now... even though this is not a political forum this stuff shouldn't be erased.

I think what is inappropriate is a lack of tolerance for discussion.

Time after time, people have shown on here an inability to talk about matters such as this with any sort of civility. Its well within the mods to moderate this to prevent a shitshow from occuring. Besides, the exact number of casualties doesn't matter in the big picture, at least in my opinion.

[hockeysew 0]

Bottom line:

Take a second to tell a Vet thanks, be it from what ever conflict.

They have gone to a place we can only see on TV or a newspaper or text book....

They have been through what we cannot comprehend.....

They have seen what our eyes shall never see........

They have done what we shall never do......

They have known brotherhood that we cannot understand........

They have given more than we ever shall.................freely

They have sacrificed the ultimate sacrifice...........selflessly

So we all can live free

They ask for nothing in return other than to remember those that aren't here..........

As long as they are remembered, they are not forgotten.

So from myself, Thanks Vets!

If it wasn't for ALL of you, we would not have the freedoms that we have today.

You have my respect

You have my thanks

[donkey87 0]

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell

Thanks to all veterans for their service.