It's all about the money in Pittsburgh

[Chadd 916]

I agree with you Chadd, although I don't see what it has to do with what I was talking about. They could have had a new arena back when Howard Baldwin still owned the team.

All I'm saying is I don't think Lemieux owes the Penguins or the city of Pittsburgh anything else. He's already saved the franchise twice, now he has to do what's best for him and his investors. I don't think they owe it to anyone to accept a lower bid from guys who would definitley keep the team here vs. someone who will potentially move the team. Everybody talks about Cuban and Marino but they were minority owners in Mursteins group. If Cuban wants to guarentee the team stays in Pittsburgh, maybe he should pony up some more cash, he's only a billionaire.

My point was that Mario hasn't done everything to save the team or hockey in Pittsburgh, it has been to ensure he gets paid. The future of the team in Pittsburgh would have been sewn up long ago if they weren't so greedy. Cuban and Marino were the "names" in the group used to attract other investors, without a new building they aren't worth the $170M let alone more.

[ryno 0]

I agree with you Chadd, although I don't see what it has to do with what I was talking about. They could have had a new arena back when Howard Baldwin still owned the team.

All I'm saying is I don't think Lemieux owes the Penguins or the city of Pittsburgh anything else. He's already saved the franchise twice, now he has to do what's best for him and his investors. I don't think they owe it to anyone to accept a lower bid from guys who would definitley keep the team here vs. someone who will potentially move the team. Everybody talks about Cuban and Marino but they were minority owners in Mursteins group. If Cuban wants to guarentee the team stays in Pittsburgh, maybe he should pony up some more cash, he's only a billionaire.

My point was that Mario hasn't done everything to save the team or hockey in Pittsburgh, it has been to ensure he gets paid. The future of the team in Pittsburgh would have been sewn up long ago if they weren't so greedy. Cuban and Marino were the "names" in the group used to attract other investors, without a new building they aren't worth the $170M let alone more.

Sure part of it was to get paid, if your employer owed you 33 million dollars you'd want your money too. How many professional athletes would defer that kind of money in the first place to keep the team afloat?

When Lemieux took over the team he gave up $7.5 million of what they owed him and sank the other $20 some million into the team. He brought them out of bankruptcy on the promise of a new arena from the politicians, which they never got. What else is he supposed to do? They might not be worth $170 million plus, but apparently that's the offer on the table. What's he supposed to do, take $150 or $160 million from someone else and give up more money?

[Chadd 916]

I agree with you Chadd, although I don't see what it has to do with what I was talking about. They could have had a new arena back when Howard Baldwin still owned the team.

All I'm saying is I don't think Lemieux owes the Penguins or the city of Pittsburgh anything else. He's already saved the franchise twice, now he has to do what's best for him and his investors. I don't think they owe it to anyone to accept a lower bid from guys who would definitley keep the team here vs. someone who will potentially move the team. Everybody talks about Cuban and Marino but they were minority owners in Mursteins group. If Cuban wants to guarentee the team stays in Pittsburgh, maybe he should pony up some more cash, he's only a billionaire.

My point was that Mario hasn't done everything to save the team or hockey in Pittsburgh, it has been to ensure he gets paid. The future of the team in Pittsburgh would have been sewn up long ago if they weren't so greedy. Cuban and Marino were the "names" in the group used to attract other investors, without a new building they aren't worth the $170M let alone more.

Sure part of it was to get paid, if your employer owed you 33 million dollars you'd want your money too. How many professional athletes would defer that kind of money in the first place to keep the team afloat?

When Lemieux took over the team he gave up $7.5 million of what they owed him and sank the other $20 some million into the team. He brought them out of bankruptcy on the promise of a new arena from the politicians, which they never got. What else is he supposed to do? They might not be worth $170 million plus, but apparently that's the offer on the table. What's he supposed to do, take $150 or $160 million from someone else and give up more money?

Let's not get into another debate of his altruism and how much of what was owed was legit. It really doesn't matter as the team is for sale. My point is they could have had a new building by now if he wasn't pressuring the city and the state to give them everything they want. Since everyone in Pittsburgh is saying anew building would ensure the team can make money in the town, there are only a couple potential reasons for their behavior.

1. They actually believed that they could get a building built and given to them for free.

2. They know they can sell the team for more money to someone who is planning to move the team.

[ryno 0]

I'm not looking to start a debate over Mario's selflessness, just stating he doesn't owe anybody else anything. He's got investors to look out for whether it means the team stays or goes.

[hockeytim18 0]

Mario wouldn't exactly be a favorite in Pittsburgh anymore if the team moves though. And while were at it why don't we move St. Louis as well.

[cassius 0]

If you really know anything about the situation, you would understand that Cuban and Marino are much more like figureheads than investors.

Lemieux has tried to keep the team in Pittsburgh, which is why he is putting it up for sale. If the lease runs out and the arena conflict isn't resolved, he doesn't want to be the one that is forced to move the team.

The politicians have promised Mario a new arena for years, but that hasn't come around. The Pirates (12 losing seasons in a row) and the steelers both got free arenas, so why shouldn't the Pens get one?

[Chadd 916]

If you really know anything about the situation, you would understand that Cuban and Marino are much more like figureheads than investors.

Lemieux has tried to keep the team in Pittsburgh, which is why he is putting it up for sale. If the lease runs out and the arena conflict isn't resolved, he doesn't want to be the one that is forced to move the team.

The politicians have promised Mario a new arena for years, but that hasn't come around. The Pirates (12 losing seasons in a row) and the steelers both got free arenas, so why shouldn't the Pens get one?

The Pens had the chance to get in line for their new building at the same time as the Steelers and Pirates and chose to have club seats installed in the igloo instead. Bad decision but they made it almost a decade ago. Had the Penguins (read:Mario) wanted a new building all they had to do was agree to pay some of the cost and it would have been a done deal. Instead they want it all handed to them with no cost to them.

The Steelers could go 0-10 and still sell out the next game, Pittsburgh is a football town. The Pirates actually made an effort to bring in some guys and get better and attendance dropped off after the first year in the new park. It also proves that a new building alone will not help the team.

[ryno 0]

If you really know anything about the situation, you would understand that Cuban and Marino are much more like figureheads than investors.

Lemieux has tried to keep the team in Pittsburgh, which is why he is putting it up for sale.  If the lease runs out and the arena conflict isn't resolved, he doesn't want to be the one that is forced to move the team.

The politicians have promised Mario a new arena for years, but that hasn't come around.  The Pirates (12 losing seasons in a row) and the steelers both got free arenas, so why shouldn't the Pens get one?

The Pens had the chance to get in line for their new building at the same time as the Steelers and Pirates and chose to have club seats installed in the igloo instead. Bad decision but they made it almost a decade ago. Had the Penguins (read:Mario) wanted a new building all they had to do was agree to pay some of the cost and it would have been a done deal. Instead they want it all handed to them with no cost to them.

That was Howard Baldwin, can't blame Lemieux for that one.

[Chadd 916]

If you really know anything about the situation, you would understand that Cuban and Marino are much more like figureheads than investors.

Lemieux has tried to keep the team in Pittsburgh, which is why he is putting it up for sale.  If the lease runs out and the arena conflict isn't resolved, he doesn't want to be the one that is forced to move the team.

The politicians have promised Mario a new arena for years, but that hasn't come around.  The Pirates (12 losing seasons in a row) and the steelers both got free arenas, so why shouldn't the Pens get one?

The Pens had the chance to get in line for their new building at the same time as the Steelers and Pirates and chose to have club seats installed in the igloo instead. Bad decision but they made it almost a decade ago. Had the Penguins (read:Mario) wanted a new building all they had to do was agree to pay some of the cost and it would have been a done deal. Instead they want it all handed to them with no cost to them.

That was Howard Baldwin, can't blame Lemieux for that one.

Yes, that decision was Baldwin my apologies for the poor phrasing. After Mario's group took over they had opportunities to get a deal done but they refused to contribute anything.

[hockeytim18 0]

Some group I think from Hartford is about to buy the Pens. I hope they aren't moved to Kansas.

[eagan09 0]

If a new rink is passed in Pit. they will stay other wise as chadd said there is a new facility in KC and they would probably move there and rebuild fan support

[hockeytim18 0]

Yes you're right and as Chadd said. Do you think a rink will be built and the Pens will stay in Pittsburgh?

[eagan09 0]

I hope they let it pass but Hockey has taken a back seat to Football by far with the steelers so you dont know how much the city will want to put that much money into a new rink unless the owner wants to drop a lot of money into it as well like the New England Patriots owner pretty much built Gilette stadium out of his own pocket

[hockeytim18 0]

Being from Pittsburgh truthfully I don't hear a-lot about it. From what I hear the city doesn't really want to and can't pay for a new rink. That's what I've gotten out of it some may disagree. Chadd can tell you the rundown probably. The city doesn't have that much money to put into it anyways.

[eagan09 0]

Ya so the new owner would really have to put in most of the money for it and who knows if he would want to do that he may just want to move to KC and get a clean start

[hockeytim18 0]

He doesn't actually have to put all the money in. But the city would have to pass for new slots for some casino to build a new arena free to the city. There is a chance that won't work though.

[Chadd 916]

One of the groups bidding for the downtown Pittsburgh slot machine license has promised to build a new arena at no cost to the city or team. That group is probably rated third out of the three. My sources inside the governors office aren't what they used to be but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

[DarkStar50 679]

Chadd,

You are so connected! When does your campaign for Senator from the heartland start?

[Chadd 916]

Chadd,

You are so connected! When does your campaign for Senator from the heartland start?

Nah, I just live a few minutes from the capitol and know some guys who work for the state. Everyone on the board that hands out the licenses is a political appointtee and the other two major bods for the license have a lot better political connections. Besides I could never run for elective office, too many skeletons. ;)

[Fire0nIce228 1]

I think all we know for sure is the hockey fans in Pittsburgh want hockey to stay for two reasons. Obviously its love of the game and we don't want our team to leave, but secondly anyone who follows hockey or the penguins even a little bit knows how many prospects the team has and that theres a good chance they'll be a very good team in a couple of years.

I think if the do manage to keep the team in town, a couple years down the road they will be banking money like nobody's business... If the pens can do what the Steelers have done and find a way to get everyone on their side through thick and thin (Ie make a few deep playoff runs) they'd be in superb shape.

[Chadd 916]

I think all we know for sure is the hockey fans in Pittsburgh want hockey to stay for two reasons. Obviously its love of the game and we don't want our team to leave, but secondly anyone who follows hockey or the penguins even a little bit knows how many prospects the team has and that theres a good chance they'll be a very good team in a couple of years.

I think if the do manage to keep the team in town, a couple years down the road they will be banking money like nobody's business... If the pens can do what the Steelers have done and find a way to get everyone on their side through thick and thin (Ie make a few deep playoff runs) they'd be in superb shape.

It doesn't work like you suggest. First of all, western PA is all about football. Ask most people in Pittsburgh if they want free Penguins tickets or they can get midfield seats for the Steelers for $50, and they'll ask how many Steelers tickets they can buy.

Steelers have been in one of the weakest divisions in football with the Browns, Bengals and Ravens for the last decade, almost ensuring them of a winning record every year. Meanwhile Pittsburgh is up against the Flyers, Rangers, Islanders and Devils in a traditionally pretty difficult division. That said, the Steelers could be 0-10 and still sell out their home games. You obviously can't say the same for the Penguins.

The Penguins did go deep in the playoffs for a lot of years, then had a couple bad seasons and people stopped showing up. Sure there are a number of hockey-first fans but the vast majority only care when the team is winning. That doesn't qualify as having good fans, or being a hockey town. Hell they even won two cups but that doesn't seem to have much of an impact on the casual fans. I went to a game a month before Mario made his comeback and it was a decent crowd, about half to three-quarters full. It was a good atmosphere but deathly quiet. I also had tickets to his fourth or so game back and it was entirely different. People screaming all game long, falling down drunk, picking fights with other fans (including the poor guy behind me) and then most of them left halfway through the third period. That was by far the worst experience I've had there and second only to an Eagles-Cowboys game for the worst fan experience of my life. Moral of the story, there are some great hockey fans in Pittsburgh, just not enough to fill the building every night. Because of that, they have to bring in the bandwagon fans just to make money and those fans jump off even faster than they jump on.

Anyone want to take bets that if they do get the new building there will be complaints about not getting enough luxury suite or in-arena advertising revenue? Remember the team will not own the building.