Keeping hydrated

[hockechamp14 0]

Notice that the study you cited is for "resistance exercise".  This means weight training and not something like a hockey game.  And of course, t-nation uses all of these studies to push its products before anything else...not to say that the actual study isn't valid or reliable (although if you take the time to read the study, it consisted of only 6 test subjects...), but you have to watch the context with a source like t-nation, as well as the wording and see how it applies to the activity you will be doing (sports, not lifting, primarily). 

We all know that taking protein/amino acids before/during/after lifting will help protein synthesis...but will this help performance during a sports game such as hockey?  Gatorade and other sports drink companies insist that protein has no benefit for endurance exercises, which is why it's not in their drinks.  I'm sure it would help post-exercise muscle recovery (as eating a large meal afterwards would too), but I don't know if protein/carb drinks would actually benefit performance as opposed to just carb/water drinks...increased amino acid levels and blood flow is good, but any positive effects from that wouldn't take place until well after a game.  If you're looking for a supplement to increase muscular performance and not recovery (for the short term), well then something like creatine would work a lot better, as it replenishes creatine and ATP levels quickly, which leads to improved performance while you are exercising.

We could have a big debate about this, but for 99% of the people on this board it doesn't matter.

I don't see how you can differentiate weight training all that much from hockey. High intensity excercise at intervals. Unless you're the guy taking 2 minutne shifts it isn't really as different as you make it out to be.

Don't knock t-nation, they don't force any of thier authors to submit anything. Obviously if they see an article that is good for sales they'll be more likely to publish it, but it's not like we're talking about Flex! Dave Barr ran an article that was anti-glutamine, well guess what's in surge?

6 test subejects... the fact is that these studies require money, look at most of the studies around the supplement industry, they're not very much large scale at all!

And taking creatine pre-game isn't as effective as taking it long term and raising your muscle creatine levels through supplementation.

Also, I'm sure that gatorade and powerade are absolutely sure there's no benefits to having protein. The fact is they are just trying to continually push thier products until they become obsolete.

People like David Barr, John Berardi and Lonnie Lowery are becoming the next leaders in sports supplementation and nutrition. John formulated surge himself and if you look at my link in my earlier post even asks the question "why are you still drinking gatorade?"

I respect what you're saying, but this is going nowhere that's even useful at this point.

[usahockey22 0]

Ok. If you would like to base your training methods on one study which used a subject pool of a mere 6 people..lol...that's your decision. And I'm not saying t-nation doesn't have useful information, but if you read their site, you quickly realize that most of the articles are designed for the purpose of generating product sales. There are SO many possibly variables in a study that would compare pre-workout to post-workout supplementation value, that you would have to be either an idiot (or someone with an agenda) to use this study as a conclusive point for any article...if you did that same study with say, 30 people, then it would have a lot more validity. And don't spend much of your time reading studies "in the supplement industry". "99%" of the supplements out there won't do a damn thing for you. Biotest (t-nation) has been notorious for pimping its supplements, charging ripoff prices, and then having the products bomb out right after people realize they don't work. And they don't even have creatine, which is one of the only sports supplements which has been conclusively proven safe and effective...sorry, but I don't feel like becoming a guinea pig for some snake oil supplements that might cause long term damage, and probably won't even work. Everyone knows that carb/protein/BCAA drinks are helpful, but if you are buying the biotest version, you are wasting your hard earned dollars. If you ask people's opinions of t-nation and biotest on any fitness board (besides their own) you will hear the same thing...

There's a big difference between weight training and hockey. Weight training involves basically isolating certain muscle groups for short periods of time and blasting them...hockey (or any sport) is a total-muscular workout, and mostly a cardio workout above all else. When people talk about "staying hydrated" they are talking about keeping their game sustained during a hard game, and not about muscular recovery which is what you are talking about. I agree with you that carbs and protein are preferable to carbs or water only, but realistically, it's not going to make much, if any, difference for a hockey player who is eating a good diet...

And I never said to take creatine pre-game. You would obviously take it normally, and it would help in your game if you are looking to increase muscular performance during a game. But I don't really recommend using it anyway. Gatorade and powerade of course are behind the times, and they are just coke's way of selling to the athletic crowd. Nothing new about that.

I pretty much agree with what you're saying, except for comparing a sport to weight training, and also getting most of your sources out of t-nation...

[hockechamp14 0]

Ok. If you would like to base your training methods on one study which used a subject pool of a mere 6 people..lol...that's your decision. And I'm not saying t-nation doesn't have useful information, but if you read their site, you quickly realize that most of the articles are designed for the purpose of generating product sales. There are SO many possibly variables in a study that would compare pre-workout to post-workout supplementation value, that you would have to be either an idiot (or someone with an agenda) to use this study as a conclusive point for any article...if you did that same study with say, 30 people, then it would have a lot more validity. And don't spend much of your time reading studies "in the supplement industry". "99%" of the supplements out there won't do a damn thing for you. Biotest (t-nation) has been notorious for pimping its supplements, charging ripoff prices, and then having the products bomb out right after people realize they don't work. And they don't even have creatine, which is one of the only sports supplements which has been conclusively proven safe and effective...sorry, but I don't feel like becoming a guinea pig for some snake oil supplements that might cause long term damage, and probably won't even work. Everyone knows that carb/protein/BCAA drinks are helpful, but if you are buying the biotest version, you are wasting your hard earned dollars. If you ask people's opinions of t-nation and biotest on any fitness board (besides their own) you will hear the same thing...

I pretty much agree with what you're saying, except for comparing a sport to weight training, and also getting most of your sources out of t-nation...

I've been reading stuff on t-nation since march. TC Luoma and Tim Patterson are stand up guys. They offer a money back garuntee on all of thier supplements except thier protein powder and MRP.

They do offer creatine now, and they also sell the "next" creatine -- beta alanine. Yes, the price for thier beta alanine product (beta-7) IS rediculous and is why I bought BA powder elsewhere.

They do tend to be hit or miss especially with some products they've sold like myostat, carbolin, and methoxy.

I don't know how much reading you do on t-nation, but although they obviously are trying to sell thier products, so are all the other bodybuilding magazines. T-nation defenately offers better training information than any of the other mags.

Also, it's not that one study I base my training off of. I referenced in the quote because Barr included it in his article. I use surge because berardi designed it and so obviously he endorses it.

Do you have or know of any other good carb+protein drinks that are less expensive than surge? I would love to be able to save the money rather than have to decide to use surge for practice or for my lifting sessions.

Where do you turn to for training and nutritional information? I don't plan on blasting you for it one bit, I actually enjoy learning. :D

[usahockey22 0]

Well, any bodybuilding/fitness magazine is not worth anyone's time for information on training or diet or anything. Yes, I agree that t-nation has much better and more useful information than any of those print magazines. Sometimes they do have pretty good articles on diet and training. (Actually, this article: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459321 looks like a pretty good program for a hockey player or other athlete, combined with sprints and plyos. also this one: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=885647 has a good interview with this guy paul chek who talks a lot about the holistic health/diet/training approach, and has been training mike modano)

I don't really use any kind of performance type supplements anymore...optimum 100% natural whey protein is all I really use, and maybe occasionally I will use creatine if I am trying to add strength/size over a period of time. Some people like the scivation products like xtend for improving workouts and recovery, and also contains citrulline malate (an amino acid) which I'm pretty sure has been proven in studies to improve performance in endurance sports, and I tried it once (it works really well with creatine) and it definitely helps. There are all sorts of "energy/recovery" products at www.bulknutrition.com which is the cheapest supplement place I have found.

The reason I don't really use supplements anymore is, number one, they are way too overpriced. They are also way overhyped, usually not effective at all (or might help slightly while you're taking it, but not at all in the long term), and they could be unsafe, as most of them aren't tested for safety at all, or if they are, it's a very short term study...also, most supplements you take contain artificial flavors, sweeteners, colors, and all sorts of random chemicals that I don't want to put into my body. I'm of a more holistic health/performance mindset of staying as natural as possible is the best way, and that type of crap is like poison for the body. So, for preworkout or postworkout energy, I will have something like fruits, natural peanut butter sandwich, juice, etc...and then just drink water during a workout usually, and make sure to have a protein shake or a big meal right afterwards. This is really the best approach, no supplement can just replace training your ass off and eating good food.

I don't really turn anywhere specific for training information at the moment, because a year or so ago I was very into fitness and training, diet, etc...and I learned almost anything I could wish to know about it from various sources, mostly sports training sites/journals, fitness boards, google searches, a couple books, proven training/diet methods, etc. except I only base my "knowledge" on the ones that have either been proven effective by user experiences I have read, or good studies that you can find on pubmed. Really when it comes to training and diet, there are no secrets or unfound methods to train. Guys have been getting big and strong and fast for decades and it is just from lifting heavy weights in basic compound exercises, cardio, practicing their sport religiously, doing other athletics or agility stuff like plyometrics...sprints...and eating a ton of food. You are better off just learning the basics of nutrition and fitness and sport specific training and not reading anymore than you are if you read every little theory or method that comes out, most of which are just concocted by those "magazines" (more like catalogs) in order to release another issue, or else some supplement company. In the world of fitness, if you read some magazine like "flex", you will probably become more stupid as time goes on...they encourage bad training methods (over training) and simply recycle information, putting no thought into what they print.

I still do read about new training/health/diet information, but usually only really pay attention to the major "disoveries" or new studies that might have shown something different, or a big breakthrough. Kind of like the pre/during/post workout benefits of protein/carbs, people have known that for years, but now that the supplement companies have these specific drinks for workout recovery, they are making it sound like some big new breakthrough. But if you just have a regular protein shake or protein meal maybe 30 minutes before lifting you will get the same benefits (although arguably the free form amino acids are better and faster absorbed of course, but to me, it isn't worth the 40 bucks/month price of using that stuff).

[--notorious 0]

I use propel water that stuff made by Gatorade.It works for me and it tastes good too. :lol:

[marc_9 0]

I was at a camp and one of the coaches said if you drink 2 glasses of water half an hour or an hour before you are on the ice it should keep you hydrated

[Jarick 5]

This site summarizes nutritiion and hydration for hockey in a very simple and clear manner:

http://www.sheskateshard.com/nutrition.html

Just wanted to bump this up because those linked articles were actually very concise and helpful.

Does anyone here mix anything into water for either taste or electrolytes? I find it difficult to drink plain water most of the day because I sit at a desk all day and never feel thirsty (even though I should be drinking a lot of water).

I also think I'm not eating enough before games because I tend to get dizzy or weak towards the end, even drinking Gatorade. Meanwhile my teammates drink straight water and rocket through the games. Granted they're in better shape than I am, but that's a big part of why I'm playing.

Right now I'm planning on eating a small dinner after I get home from work (about 6 PM) and eating another small meal with complex carbs and lean protein about an hour before the game (eating at 9 PM, games around 10 PM). From there drinking either straight water or heavily diluted (4:1 or so) juice or sports drinks. Would that be a good plan of attack?

[chk hrd 164]

I'd guess you get dizzy and/or weak because your hydration level and blood sugar level are both getting low. Make sure that you hydrate all day before a game, not just a few hours before.

I don't think the small meal with complex carbs an hour before the game is a good idea. It will not be easily digested and will sit in your digestive track to long. I would eat a medium dinner with complex carbs and have a small snack of easily digested foods with a sports drink or fruit juice. Apple juice works well for me.

Do a internet search on glycemic indexes and sports nutrition for some good food ideas.

[SickLife 2]

there's going to be conflicting articles all around. it all comes down to what works for you.

for me, i have my 100g carb/45g protein shake 2-4 hours before a game.

the old school rule is 30% of your day's carbs should be had 3 hours before workout. with another snake an hour or 2 before (something quick like wheat toast & jam to give a lil spike)

[Jarick 5]

Well I've been drinking water almost nonstop the last couple days and ate complex carbs and lean protein throughout the day yesterday and my performance was better than with Gatorade.

I do think I'll try to eat a little earlier before the game as I did feel sluggish at first and actually got really warm really quickly...probably too much food and I was still digesting. Would something like a banana be good before the game? Supposed to help keep blood sugar levels stable.

And the water really did seem to help, I didn't feel the need to chug water and never got that "sloshy" feeling. Just took a sip between shifts.

Anyways thanks again for the articles and I'll keep tinkering!

[markthedeadhead 0]

A guy on my team had a real bad problem with dehydration, so a doctor told him to start mixing 1/2 pedialyte and 1/2 water in his water bottle. He never had another problem with hydration. He'd just take normal sips between shifts during games and between drills during practice.