Squats

[willy0314 0]

I could be wrong, but I remember reading that "squating numbers" of recruits are measured in a 3 rep set. There isn't much of any use for doing a 1 rep max lift other then to try to set some world reccord, or trying to blow your ass out.

[usahockey22 0]

Don't think so, usually when you're looking at someone's numbers, you look at their max...unless it's a specific test that some programs might do, like at football training camps they will test to see how many reps of 225 (or some weight) the player can do. Maxing is basically just used as a test to find your maximum strength, otherwise there isn't much point to max out on a lift, at least not for sport-specific training purposes.

[biff44 0]

I would not do that sort of stuff if I were you. That sort of weight can really screw up your knees--cut grooves in the cartilage. And then you are screwed!

You can get the exact same benefit that these jamokes are getting with half the weight. Go down very low, come up 10%, then go down low again and explode upward for the full lift. Do 10 of those at 200 lbs bar weight and you will know it.

It is when you are in the weight room showing off that really bad things happen!

[usahockey22 0]

Lifting for sports and powerlifting are very different. An athlete should be training the muscles for peak performance during their sport, therefore trying to do the hardest work per rep, every exercise. A power lifter is just training for the purpose of maximum strength on one repetition in the exercise, using many different techniques to get the weight counted.

Hockey players should be doing "full squats". This basically means to go down as low as you can. This should also be done with smooth, steady speed on the negative, a slight pause at the bottom of the rep, then "explode" up as much as you can...using excellent form. When I do squats, my ass is around 6 inches off the ground at the bottom of the rep, this is basically as low as I can go. You will have to use a lot less weight probably than with just parallel squats, but the total work output (thinking in physics terms) will be greater than the squats with more weight, because of the greater range of motion and time under tension. The deep squat also hits the glutes (ass) a lot harder, and will directly affect the power of your stride when you first push off...

When I first decided to start squatting deep, I had to only use around 200 pounds, but my legs had a much better workout, I could immediately tell the difference. Don't pussy out of real squat work in the gym, you will appreciate the help it gives you on the ice.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Like you say full squat are something great for an athlete. I think vertical squats are great too but only If you use a great technique, that means you always to 90 degrees or lower...

Lifting for sports and powerlifting are very different. An athlete should be training the muscles for peak performance during their sport, therefore trying to do the hardest work per rep, every exercise. A power lifter is just training for the purpose of maximum strength on one repetition in the exercise, using many different techniques to get the weight counted.

Hockey players should be doing "full squats". This basically means to go down as low as you can. This should also be done with smooth, steady speed on the negative, a slight pause at the bottom of the rep, then "explode" up as much as you can...using excellent form. When I do squats, my ass is around 6 inches off the ground at the bottom of the rep, this is basically as low as I can go. You will have to use a lot less weight probably than with just parallel squats, but the total work output (thinking in physics terms) will be greater than the squats with more weight, because of the greater range of motion and time under tension. The deep squat also hits the glutes (ass) a lot harder, and will directly affect the power of your stride when you first push off...

When I first decided to start squatting deep, I had to only use around 200 pounds, but my legs had a much better workout, I could immediately tell the difference. Don't pussy out of real squat work in the gym, you will appreciate the help it gives you on the ice.

[Trooper 8]

Hey guys...

right now I am doing front squats at just 100 pounds...

I can do quite a few of them in terms of sets and reps- My question is: If I don't move to the next level in raising the weight, will doing them become obsolete for me? Right now they are easy, but will they continue to keep my lower body strong? Will I just not see anymore muscle added by keeping the weight stagnant?

Biff- You say 200 pounds is fine...Will that weight be fine long term no matter what level you are at?

Thanks for the advice. I would explain why adding weight is an issue, but as for now I rather just have the answers to the above questions

If you don't raise the weight, you won't become stronger. Strength is how much force you produce, power is how fast you produce it. Doing them at your current weight won't be harmful, it's still exercise but if your goal is to increase strength, then you need to start lifting heavier. Front squats are good, but do regular squats as well.

[usahockey22 0]

Yea, whenever you set foot in the gym you should be aiming to break your previous strength records, thereby increasing your overall strength, hopefully translating to an increase in sports performance. The people who go to the gym to "stay in shape" are too lazy to work for improvement, and will stay the same...there's no point working out if you aren't trying to improve. Keeping a log will help you realize your improvements. You should always try to get some more reps or some more weight.

Front squats are alright, but like I said earlier, I think that full, deep squats are the best overall strength exercise for hockey...deadlifts also very good. Front squats, lunges, one leg squats can help, but I don't think should be used in place of full squats or deadlifts as the main exercise. If I were you I would do full squats once or twice a week, deadlifts once a week, maybe cleans and clean & press in place of front squats. (though for someone playing hockey who is in-season, I would say just lift legs heavy one day, upper body another day, not lifting more than twice per week during the season)

If you are able to do more than 12 reps in anything, it's definitely time to move the weight up...and usually for your work sets, 3-6 reps would be the best for strength/power training. You will get plenty of lower body repetition exercise just from actually playing hockey, doing cardio, plyos, etc, so theres no need to just hit rep after rep of easy squats that will do nothing to increase your strength.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Very very good post here buddy...

Yea, whenever you set foot in the gym you should be aiming to break your previous strength records, thereby increasing your overall strength, hopefully translating to an increase in sports performance. The people who go to the gym to "stay in shape" are too lazy to work for improvement, and will stay the same...there's no point working out if you aren't trying to improve. Keeping a log will help you realize your improvements. You should always try to get some more reps or some more weight.

Front squats are alright, but like I said earlier, I think that full, deep squats are the best overall strength exercise for hockey...deadlifts also very good. Front squats, lunges, one leg squats can help, but I don't think should be used in place of full squats or deadlifts as the main exercise. If I were you I would do full squats once or twice a week, deadlifts once a week, maybe cleans and clean & press in place of front squats. (though for someone playing hockey who is in-season, I would say just lift legs heavy one day, upper body another day, not lifting more than twice per week during the season)

If you are able to do more than 12 reps in anything, it's definitely time to move the weight up...and usually for your work sets, 3-6 reps would be the best for strength/power training. You will get plenty of lower body repetition exercise just from actually playing hockey, doing cardio, plyos, etc, so theres no need to just hit rep after rep of easy squats that will do nothing to increase your strength.

[usahockey22 0]

A bit confused though...With front squats I can get down very low- Past 90 degrees. What is wrong with them? Maybe I am calling them the wrong thing, because I can get the same range of motion w/ them compared to regular. To be honest, it feels completely awkward to do regular squats because my arms just don't allow holding the bar behind my head/neck like that- perhaps it's a flexabiltiy issue.

But it is a null issue at this point, since I do not have a system or machine to hold the weight up- Therefore I have no choice but to do front squats. I do this by tying the four 25 pounders on a push up bar outside with heavy duty rope. I let it hang at about 3 ft high or so. From there I bend down in a squat position, and come back up with the weight and go from there. It sounds very make-shift, but it works well as of now. don't know if it can handle much more weight though. Overall, I do realize I need to get a real system soon http://www.onlinesports.com/images/cp-wtsquat.gif This is what I need

Especially with more of a beginning lifter, regular squats are better just because they usually are easier to do with proper form. For me, I am pretty tall with long legs, so front squats feel awkward, and I end up leaning forward too much if I try to go down low. Regular squats are usually an easier, more natural exercise, anatomically. Also, because of the bar being on your back, more of the effort is focused in the glutes and hamstrings (although it still hits your quads very well) than with front squats, which seem to focus more on the quads. This is another reason why regular squats are a better overall exercise, especially for hockey, and they should also allow you to use more weight.

Sounds like your "make shift" system is causing most of your issues. I will bet that if you go to a real gym and use a regular olympic bar, you will feel a lot better doing regular squats. You should really get a membership at a local gym, or else at least purchase an olympic bar with a couple hundred pounds worth of plates...as well as some dumbell bars that you can use the plates with. With these you could do deadlifts, hack squats, regular/front squats with some kind of rack, cleans, floor presses, barbell rows, curls, tricep extensions, etc.

This would be a good start if you want to do the home workout instead of gym membership:

http://www.onlinesports.com/pages/I,GIA-WT530.html

[Trooper 8]

Thanks for the detailed info, guys...

A bit confused though...With front squats I can get down very low- Past 90 degrees. What is wrong with them? Maybe I am calling them the wrong thing, because I can get the same range of motion w/ them compared to regular. To be honest, it feels completely awkward to do regular squats because my arms just don't allow holding the bar behind my head/neck like that- perhaps it's a flexabiltiy issue.

But it is a null issue at this point, since I do not have a system or machine to hold the weight up- Therefore I have no choice but to do front squats. I do this by tying the four 25 pounders on a push up bar outside with heavy duty rope. I let it hang at about 3 ft high or so. From there I bend down in a squat position, and come back up with the weight and go from there. It sounds very make-shift, but it works well as of now. don't know if it can handle much more weight though. Overall, I do realize I need to get a real system soon http://www.onlinesports.com/images/cp-wtsquat.gif This is what I need

But you guys definitely convinced me to find a way to get more weight and challenge myself more. Foolish thinking on my part.

You should work on your flexibility if you can't hold the bar for back squats. But the bar shouldn't be on the back of your neck, it really should be in the groove your rear delts make when you pull them back, this makes for a more stable platform. Look here, I have some pictures of bar placement if you scroll down:

http://training.pitthockey.com/Ex-Squat.htm

As for your setup, go with what you have, but you can make a makeshift squat rack out of wood if you have the space that will hold more than enough weight.

Back squats and front squats put the different joints at slightly different angles, with back squats bringing the posterior chain (hammies, glutes, back) more into the equation and fronts putting more of a load on the quads.

Keep working out regardless, many hockey players think lifting is for football and then they reach some higher levels and strength comes into play a great deal more.

[gman 0]

Thanks for the detailed info, guys...

A bit confused though...With front squats I can get down very low- Past 90 degrees. What is wrong with them? Maybe I am calling them the wrong thing, because I can get the same range of motion w/ them compared to regular. To be honest, it feels completely awkward to do regular squats because my arms just don't allow holding the bar behind my head/neck like that- perhaps it's a flexabiltiy issue.

But it is a null issue at this point, since I do not have a system or machine to hold the weight up- Therefore I have no choice but to do front squats. I do this by tying the four 25 pounders on a push up bar outside with heavy duty rope. I let it hang at about 3 ft high or so. From there I bend down in a squat position, and come back up with the weight and go from there. It sounds very make-shift, but it works well as of now. don't know if it can handle much more weight though. Overall, I do realize I need to get a real system soon http://www.onlinesports.com/images/cp-wtsquat.gif This is what I need

But you guys definitely convinced me to find a way to get more weight and challenge myself more. Foolish thinking on my part.

One of the awesome things about doing front squats is that you really do not need a rack or anything except a bar and the weight. Clean the weight and then do your front squat reps. That is how squats were done for years. One of the old timers, sorry the name escapes me, used to clean #400 and then pushpress over his head and do back squats. Front squats are great and you can do a considerable amount of weight. They do indeed force better, if not perfect, form. I am able to get much deeper doing front squats than back squats. It just feels more natural.

I have a co-worker who was on the 1972 Polish Olympic weight lifting team. He has given me a few free lessons and one thing he says is "never do back squats. Only do front squats". Of course he has millions of reps in his muscle memory, but I have seen the results of front squats and the olympic lifts and they are amazing.

You can do tremendous amounts of weight front squatting if you work at it. You are able to do more weight with back squats because your form does not have to be as good. A program of front squats and heavy deadlifts can be awesomely productive if you do it intelligently.

Lifting for sports and powerlifting are very different. An athlete should be training the muscles for peak performance during their sport, therefore trying to do the hardest work per rep, every exercise. A power lifter is just training for the purpose of maximum strength on one repetition in the exercise, using many different techniques to get the weight counted.

Hockey players should be doing "full squats". This basically means to go down as low as you can. This should also be done with smooth, steady speed on the negative, a slight pause at the bottom of the rep, then "explode" up as much as you can...using excellent form. When I do squats, my ass is around 6 inches off the ground at the bottom of the rep, this is basically as low as I can go. You will have to use a lot less weight probably than with just parallel squats, but the total work output (thinking in physics terms) will be greater than the squats with more weight, because of the greater range of motion and time under tension. The deep squat also hits the glutes (ass) a lot harder, and will directly affect the power of your stride when you first push off...

When I first decided to start squatting deep, I had to only use around 200 pounds, but my legs had a much better workout, I could immediately tell the difference. Don't pussy out of real squat work in the gym, you will appreciate the help it gives you on the ice.

Great post!!! I Could not say it better.

[Rocket 0]

I´d like to see Gaborik squatting a weight like 500 Lbs

I squat the whole spring and summer since 2000 and I´m only able to perform

6 Reps of 250 lbs. I´d say I have very strong legs. How the hell is it possible to squat 500 ????????? ...... AS HOCKEY PLAYER

[flaming_june 2]

you can definately go higher rocket.

500lb seemed impossible in the start of my summer, but at the end i was doing 270 for pure strength. i started with 2 x 35lb plates. so i definately think with the right confidence and hardwork 300-400lb can be done.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Right, with a strict routine, you can have major gain really quick but never sacrifice technique for more weight.

And don't forget that 500 Lbs is probably his 1RM.

you can definately go higher rocket.

500lb seemed impossible in the start of my summer, but at the end i was doing 270 for pure strength. i started with 2 x 35lb plates. so i definately think with the right confidence and hardwork 300-400lb can be done.

[Ghostrider 0]

Hey Rocket

If you want to increase your strength then you have to change your squat program. You need to ensure your body never learns to plateau.

Squating big weight like everything else take time and dedication. If you really want to increase your squat poundage you should look at powerlifting they use trick like BOX SQUATs, JUMP STRETCH bands and several other techniques such as verying there routine with heavy days and speed days. check out Elite Fitness Systems EFS.

There really isn't alot of difference between powerlifting and squating for hockey the idea for both is to be able to move the most amount of weight as fast as possible. Just like skating were the idea is to apply as much force in your stride as fast as you can.

[rtwng20 0]

when just beginning a squat "regimine" or when increasing the amount of weight, especially for an inexperienced lifter it's not a bad idea to have a bench behind his/her behind. this not only forces the squater to learn good form, it is there just incase after the knee joint bends the lifter has a problem he/she can sit down until their spotter can help.

[Doctor Hook 0]

I used to hate squats but now I like them and they're good for hockey players.

[biff44 0]

You do not need high weight to get max benefit from a squat. What you do need is perfect form!

Most people do not go down deep enough, and do not explode up properly. They cheat, so they can get away lifting more weight (for what, impress the chicks in the gym?). All you are doing is wearing a groove in the catilage in your knee, and when that thing pops, you won't be squatting with a pencil weight on your back!

You need to go really far down, come up 10%, go down even farther, and then explode upwards for the full lift. If done properly, you can get more benefit from maybe 60% of the weight you were previously squatting.

Have a pro show you how, there are other safety issues you need to be aware of in your form, especially if you are lifting heavy!

[Trooper 8]

You do not need high weight to get max benefit from a squat. What you do need is perfect form!

Most people do not go down deep enough, and do not explode up properly. They cheat, so they can get away lifting more weight (for what, impress the chicks in the gym?). All you are doing is wearing a groove in the catilage in your knee, and when that thing pops, you won't be squatting with a pencil weight on your back!

You need to go really far down, come up 10%, go down even farther, and then explode upwards for the full lift. If done properly, you can get more benefit from maybe 60% of the weight you were previously squatting.

Have a pro show you how, there are other safety issues you need to be aware of in your form, especially if you are lifting heavy!

And once you perfect your form, you need to go heavy. You can't get stronger unless you put weight on the bar. It's a given you need good form, or else you can't do big weight.

[gman 0]

You do not need high weight to get max benefit from a squat. What you do need is perfect form!

Most people do not go down deep enough, and do not explode up properly. They cheat, so they can get away lifting more weight (for what, impress the chicks in the gym?). All you are doing is wearing a groove in the catilage in your knee, and when that thing pops, you won't be squatting with a pencil weight on your back!

You need to go really far down, come up 10%, go down even farther, and then explode upwards for the full lift. If done properly, you can get more benefit from maybe 60% of the weight you were previously squatting.

Have a pro show you how, there are other safety issues you need to be aware of in your form, especially if you are lifting heavy!

And once you perfect your form, you need to go heavy. You can't get stronger unless you put weight on the bar. It's a given you need good form, or else you can't do big weight.

Absolutely correct. However it takes longer to get the form correct than many folks, especially 15-20 year old males, will allow. When the weight gets really big, you need to have muscle memory available to compensate for the shock that your nervous system is going to go into. There is just nothing natural about putting 400# or 500# on your back and then squatting with it. And way deep down your fight or flight brain knows it. For me the panic hits much lighter (like #375 ot 400#), but it seems most folk on this board are way stronger than I am. You need to be able to override that panic response. The only way to do that is with thousands of perfect reps at slowly increasing weights.

[gman 0]

You need to go really far down, come up 10%, go down even farther, and then explode upwards for the full lift. If done properly, you can get more benefit from maybe 60% of the weight you were previously squatting.

There seems to be a fine line there between this technique and bouncing. The bounce is what seems to blow out most people's knees. I agree with the 60% figure. I might even suggest going lower at first for a while 'till you learn the feel.