Datsyuk vs. Thornton

[warrior37 0]

i liked when datsyuk held out and was asking for "joe thornton" money, wasnt that the year that jumbo won the hart? plain and simple, datsyuk is good, but he is also too soft and over rated, no way no how is he on a forsberg level, in fact i think all this forsberg to the red wings talk is BS

[mack 44]

I haven't checked hockeydb out yet, but I'm pretty sure Lonny fugging Bohonos has more playoff goals than Datyuk. As we all know, the only stats that matter come from April-June.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Hahaha, they are actually tied in Goals, and Dats has a 6 point lead in 30+ more games.

[mack 44]

That's embarrassing; someone needs to sign Bohonos so he can at least pull even.

[Datsyukiandeek 0]

i liked when datsyuk held out and was asking for "joe thornton" money, wasnt that the year that jumbo won the hart? plain and simple, datsyuk is good, but he is also too soft and over rated, no way no how is he on a forsberg level, in fact i think all this forsberg to the red wings talk is BS

Joe is 5 inches taller and just as soft in the playoffs. Datsyuk dominates during the regular season and doesn't in the playoffs.. yet. So does he deserve the same pay as Joe Thorton? Yeah, they both choke.

[mack 44]

Then by that rationale Lonny Bohonos deserves a lot of money.

One of the major differences between Thornton and Datsyuk is that Thornton's actually an impact player. Sure he's just as brutal in the post-season but look what he did to SJ.

[Eazy_b97 1]

i liked when datsyuk held out and was asking for "joe thornton" money, wasnt that the year that jumbo won the hart? plain and simple, datsyuk is good, but he is also too soft and over rated, no way no how is he on a forsberg level, in fact i think all this forsberg to the red wings talk is BS

Joe is 5 inches taller and just as soft in the playoffs. Datsyuk dominates during the regular season and doesn't in the playoffs.. yet. So does he deserve the same pay as Joe Thorton? Yeah, they both choke.

Thornton is arguably the best player in the game, Datsyuk is not even close.

[Datsyukiandeek 0]

Then by that rationale Lonny Bohonos deserves a lot of money.

One of the major differences between Thornton and Datsyuk is that Thornton's actually an impact player. Sure he's just as brutal in the post-season but look what he did to SJ.

What did he do? Or right, nothing acording to your standards. Post season numbers rule all remember? In that regaurd Thronton is a bust, hes great in the regular season but so is Datsyuk.

i liked when datsyuk held out and was asking for "joe thornton" money, wasnt that the year that jumbo won the hart? plain and simple, datsyuk is good, but he is also too soft and over rated, no way no how is he on a forsberg level, in fact i think all this forsberg to the red wings talk is BS

Joe is 5 inches taller and just as soft in the playoffs. Datsyuk dominates during the regular season and doesn't in the playoffs.. yet. So does he deserve the same pay as Joe Thorton? Yeah, they both choke.

Thornton is arguably the best player in the game, Datsyuk is not even close.

Thornton has 27 points in 46 playoff games. I consider Jagr to be the best in the and look at his playoff stats.. 149 games and 155 points. Those are the numbers that put you into the elite class, Thornton hasn't showed anything yet.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Jagr also played the majority of his playoffs beside Lemieux, he's not a bad player either. Thornton had the luxury of playing with Glen Murray, a good player, but hardly a game breaker. In his only year without secondary scoring he was extremely poor. He was hurt, but Thornton has also been hurt during the playoffs as well.

[Datsyukiandeek 0]

Jagr also played the majority of his playoffs beside Lemieux, he's not a bad player either. Thornton had the luxury of playing with Glen Murray, a good player, but hardly a game breaker. In his only year without secondary scoring he was extremely poor. He was hurt, but Thornton has also been hurt during the playoffs as well.

And? Datsyuk missed a month before the playoffs last season with a charley horse, he couldn't even skate till a week before they started and was playing hurt.

You can't use injury or linemates when discussing the best of the best. If you get the max you're expected to make your linemates into great players and bring it to a new level in the playoffs. At this point neither Joe or Pavel have turned it on in the playoffs.

Jagr didn't even play the majority of the time with Lemieux, on the same line atleast. Sure they got power play time but most of the time they were split up. Even Jagr was a very very dominate player on some of the worst penguins teams during the late 90s.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Actually he did. He played the majority of his time in Pitts with either him or other world class players like Kovalev and Straka, Stevens and Tocchett. He never really suffered through much in Pitts, he was traded before they dumped most of their players. He was one of the first ones gone.

You're absoloutely right you are expected to perform in the playoffs and Thornton has underachieved. He's played head and shoulder above Datsyuk in the regular season though, and significantly better than him in the playoffs as well.

So what we have is Jagr, one of the best players in the game getting 8-9 mill. Thornton getting huge amounts. Both play incredible in the regular season. Datsyuk believes he is on this level. He isn't even the clear cut best player on his team, or you can even take it further, and say his line, and he expects to get the same amount of money the MVP made? And your reasoning is that the MVP had bad playoffs in the past, while hurt on a 1-line team, and produced more than Datsyuk, but not as much as expected? While Datsyuk is a good first line player, who can't perform in the playoffs, even on one of the deepest teams in the league?

[Datsyukiandeek 0]

Actually he did. He played the majority of his time in Pitts with either him or other world class players like Kovalev and Straka, Stevens and Tocchett. He never really suffered through much in Pitts, he was traded before they dumped most of their players. He was one of the first ones gone.

You're absoloutely right you are expected to perform in the playoffs and Thornton has underachieved. He's played head and shoulder above Datsyuk in the regular season though, and significantly better than him in the playoffs as well.

So what we have is Jagr, one of the best players in the game getting 8-9 mill. Thornton getting huge amounts. Both play incredible in the regular season. Datsyuk believes he is on this level. He isn't even the clear cut best player on his team, or you can even take it further, and say his line, and he expects to get the same amount of money the MVP made? And your reasoning is that the MVP had bad playoffs in the past, while hurt on a 1-line team, and produced more than Datsyuk, but not as much as expected? While Datsyuk is a good first line player, who can't perform in the playoffs, even on one of the deepest teams in the league?

How has Thornton completely out performed Datsyuk in the regular season? Thornton has now been in the league for a decade, recording 616 points in 645 games. Great numbers but lets not forget he was drafted first overall, this was expected from him.

Datsyuk on the other hand was drafted 171th overall and is on his fifth year in the league. Over that time hes recorded 293 points in 336 games.

Thornton Career Points Per Game: 1.04

Datsyuk career Points Per Game: .87

Its really not that far off. If anything you would expect much more from Joe at this point.

In the end I think Dats will end up with a similar deal like Marc Savard got (5 years, 25 mill) probably closer to $30 mill though.

[kosydar 0]

Thornton emerged as the dominate force in SJ within a season. He completely overshadows Marleau who in his own right is an amazing player. Datsyuk is still stuck behind Zetterberg. Sometimes it isn't just about stats.

[Eazy_b97 1]

What the hell does draft position have to do with anything? We're talking about on ice production. 14 points a year is a big difference. It's the difference between a PPG player and a 100 point player. There's a huge difference in where these players are.

[mack 44]

Wow, I can't believe someone's trying to justify Datsyuk's request for Thornton money.

[warrior37 0]

im pretty sure it was something along the lines that he deserves the same type of contract as a joe thornton or vincent lecavalier, also why would the wings give him such a big deal this time around, he should just hold out again, or threaten to stay in russia

[mack 44]

Well with the luck they've had with European players the Red Wings were due to have another bad egg.

[Datsyukiandeek 0]

im pretty sure it was something along the lines that he deserves the same type of contract as a joe thornton or vincent lecavalier, also why would the wings give him such a big deal this time around, he should just hold out again, or threaten to stay in russia

Forsberg and Lidstrom have made careers off playing the "Home" card. Datsyuk on the open market will get $7 mill easily.

[mack 44]

At best he'll get Gomez money.

[acollette49 0]

Thornton emerged as the dominate force in SJ within a season. He completely overshadows Marleau who in his own right is an amazing player. Datsyuk is still stuck behind Zetterberg. Sometimes it isn't just about stats.

datsyuk isnt stuck behind zetterberg, hes averaging 1 whole min. less per game.

[kosydar 0]

You're missing my point completely. It isn't about stats or minutes played. Ask anyone in Detroit who the face of the future is and they'll say Zetterberg. They've already started to groom him to be the new captain. This situation that Datsyuk is in won't even be an issue when Zetterberg is a free agent because he is viewed in a higher regard than Datsyuk is.

[acollette49 0]

i did miss your point. i see it now, and i must agree.

[Eazy_b97 1]

and I said even without Lemieux, he was surrounded by talent on his playoff teams.

[Datsyukiandeek 0]

You're missing my point completely. It isn't about stats or minutes played. Ask anyone in Detroit who the face of the future is and they'll say Zetterberg. They've already started to groom him to be the new captain. This situation that Datsyuk is in won't even be an issue when Zetterberg is a free agent because he is viewed in a higher regard than Datsyuk is.

The only reason Zetterberg is held in a higher regaurd is because of his amazingly cheap contract. As soon as he wants a pay raise the opinion will turn and everyone will expect him to take a discount.

and I said even without Lemieux, he was surrounded by talent on his playoff teams.

And whats your point? Most playoff teams are talented. Kovalev, Straka, Lang are all second tier players. Ron Francis was really the only amazing player besides Lemieux. You also cannot make the claim that Thornton was/isn't surrounded by talent, seen the sharks roster lately? The Detroit situation is exactly like the San Jose one, two bonefied #1 centers on both rosters.

[warrior37 0]

draper and lang?