New Plyometrics Program

[willy0314 0]

Well in the last few weeks I started to work some plyo's into my weekly workouts. Just as an example, if I lift for my legs on a wensday, i'll do the plyo's on saturday, and generally skate on mondays and fridays. My general plyo workout looks something like this:

warm up: leg press 100, 160, 200lbs x 15 reps

Ladder drill - straight ahead - 3 sets

Side to side hops - 3 sets

forward leaps - 2 sets

squat jumps - 2 sets

I've been trying to read up on plyos, but I can't seem to find any kind of solid info. I was told to add some "death jumps"? to my routine, but im not sure and I dont want to hurt myself. But at the same time, I dont want to be just wasting my time jumping around like an idiot. so basicly a couple quick questions, how dose my workout look? and should I do it more often or is once a week enough? anything anybody else wants to throw in?

[Pats 0]

I can't comment on your workload, but from what I know I don't think using leg press as a warm-up is a good idea if you're looking for maximum results.

[biff44 0]

That is pretty light for a leg press (of course depends on how old/big you are). But for a warm up, I would think a stationary bike or some dynamic stretching would be better. If you like the leg press, use a weight you can lift for 30 reps.

[Trooper 8]

Looks good, except lose the ladder drills. Depth jumps can be added later, they are more advanced and can be added after you have progressed a bit. Your volume looks good (more is definately not better) and your weekly rest is good as well.

You can progress to working some one-foot versions of drills in (one-foot lateral stuff would be a good place to start) as your next phase.

[Hockeyman9621 0]

Looks good, except lose the ladder drills.

Why? Ladder drills are awesome for hockey players.

[Trooper 8]

Looks good, except lose the ladder drills.

Why? Ladder drills are awesome for hockey players.

Ladder drills are ok for warm-ups. They are not going to make you a better hockey player or increase speed or acceleration or agility. They may contribute to GPP but not in a way that other, non-gimmicky drills can also do.

[willy0314 0]

thanks guys.

as far as my warm up goes, i've only been doing the lep press as a matter of convenience. I know the weights are light, and I'm sure I could push 200 30 times easily, I guess I just haven't taken the time to. I get plenty of stretching in as well. I might be adding a little more cardio into my workouts, so maybe I'll arrange things so I do the cardio before the plyos.

I did some more reading last night, and I think that I am going to take the forward leaps out of my workout, and replace them with drop jumps.

Then in about 2 or 3 weeks im going to add death jumps.

as far as reps go, they should be limited to no more then 10 to a set right?

[Edge 0]

Looks good, except lose the ladder drills.

Why? Ladder drills are awesome for hockey players.

Ladder drills are ok for warm-ups. They are not going to make you a better hockey player or increase speed or acceleration or agility. They may contribute to GPP but not in a way that other, non-gimmicky drills can also do.

Thats exactly what they are meant for. They are meant to increase footspeed and coordination. NHL among most other off ice conditioning trainers use them.

[Trooper 8]

Looks good, except lose the ladder drills.

Why? Ladder drills are awesome for hockey players.

Ladder drills are ok for warm-ups. They are not going to make you a better hockey player or increase speed or acceleration or agility. They may contribute to GPP but not in a way that other, non-gimmicky drills can also do.

Thats exactly what they are meant for. They are meant to increase footspeed and coordination. NHL among most other off ice conditioning trainers use them.

Ladder drills will improve your ability to do ladder drills. How exactly do they increase footspeed? Anything that can be done with a ladder can be done without. Forcing predetermined stride length is not beneficial and can lead to injury. Just because trainers use them (and for you to say most is at best an overstatement) doesn't mean anything. Lots of guys use the latest gimmick to show they are "cutting edge". Guys used to use parachutes to train and that used to be considered state of the art, now most informed trainers don't use them.

[willy0314 0]

I do sprints up the hill in from of my house, I figure its the same thing as running with a chute or a weight sled.

[Edge 0]

Looks good, except lose the ladder drills.

Why? Ladder drills are awesome for hockey players.

Ladder drills are ok for warm-ups. They are not going to make you a better hockey player or increase speed or acceleration or agility. They may contribute to GPP but not in a way that other, non-gimmicky drills can also do.

Thats exactly what they are meant for. They are meant to increase footspeed and coordination. NHL among most other off ice conditioning trainers use them.

Ladder drills will improve your ability to do ladder drills. How exactly do they increase footspeed? Anything that can be done with a ladder can be done without. Forcing predetermined stride length is not beneficial and can lead to injury. Just because trainers use them (and for you to say most is at best an overstatement) doesn't mean anything. Lots of guys use the latest gimmick to show they are "cutting edge". Guys used to use parachutes to train and that used to be considered state of the art, now most informed trainers don't use them.

they increase footspeed because it is practice...practicing moving your feet quickly will eventually cause improvement in that area. I should have mentioned most HOCKEY trainers use ladders(i don't have experience in other sports training). Every hockey trainer I have worked with has encouraged using ladders. This includes Olympic and NHL hockey trainers. They use ladders in NBH's hockey training program also...go check out the trainers they have demonstrating it.

[Trooper 8]

Looks good, except lose the ladder drills.

Why? Ladder drills are awesome for hockey players.

Ladder drills are ok for warm-ups. They are not going to make you a better hockey player or increase speed or acceleration or agility. They may contribute to GPP but not in a way that other, non-gimmicky drills can also do.

Thats exactly what they are meant for. They are meant to increase footspeed and coordination. NHL among most other off ice conditioning trainers use them.

Ladder drills will improve your ability to do ladder drills. How exactly do they increase footspeed? Anything that can be done with a ladder can be done without. Forcing predetermined stride length is not beneficial and can lead to injury. Just because trainers use them (and for you to say most is at best an overstatement) doesn't mean anything. Lots of guys use the latest gimmick to show they are "cutting edge". Guys used to use parachutes to train and that used to be considered state of the art, now most informed trainers don't use them.

they increase footspeed because it is practice...practicing moving your feet quickly will eventually cause improvement in that area. I should have mentioned most HOCKEY trainers use ladders(i don't have experience in other sports training). Every hockey trainer I have worked with has encouraged using ladders. This includes Olympic and NHL hockey trainers. They use ladders in NBH's hockey training program also...go check out the trainers they have demonstrating it.

I don't disagree that practicing moving your feet will make them quicker, in the pattern that you are practicing them. I've never seen anyone skating in a manner that looking like they are traversing a ladder.

Trainers have done many things in the past, doesn't mean they are right. How many people preached the lactic acid myth for years? That didn't turn out to be true, but trainers accepted it because they never actually bother to do any research.

[Edge 0]

With your way of thinking, the ONLY way to improve skating is: to skate. You don't have to mimic the skating stride exactly to improve it. In general, the ladder improves footspeed. It doesn't matter which way you move your feet, you will move your feet faster on the ice if you practice moving them fast off of it. Like Theo said, I don't understand why there is any debate on this.

[Trooper 8]

With your way of thinking, the ONLY way to improve skating is: to skate. You don't have to mimic the skating stride exactly to improve it. In general, the ladder improves footspeed. It doesn't matter which way you move your feet, you will move your feet faster on the ice if you practice moving them fast off of it. Like Theo said, I don't understand why there is any debate on this.

There are two ways to train, GPP, or general physical preparedness which form the building blocks. Things like weight training, conditioning, explosiveness training are all GPP. Only by practicing the SPP, Specific Physical Preparedness, will the actual skill get better. If you do all your GPP, it provides the basis for which to improve your particular SPP. So you can build up the GPP portion, but in the end you have to practice skating to see any benefit from it. IE, if you spend the whole summer lifting, running, and doing plyos, you won't see benefit the instant you step on the ice. You have to practice to transform that into improved skating.

So yeah, the only way to get better at skating is to skate. The other stuff is just improving the tools you have that contribute to your skating.

[Trooper 8]

Looks good, except lose the ladder drills.

Why? Ladder drills are awesome for hockey players.

Ladder drills are ok for warm-ups. They are not going to make you a better hockey player or increase speed or acceleration or agility. They may contribute to GPP but not in a way that other, non-gimmicky drills can also do.

Thats exactly what they are meant for. They are meant to increase footspeed and coordination. NHL among most other off ice conditioning trainers use them.

Ladder drills will improve your ability to do ladder drills. How exactly do they increase footspeed? Anything that can be done with a ladder can be done without. Forcing predetermined stride length is not beneficial and can lead to injury. Just because trainers use them (and for you to say most is at best an overstatement) doesn't mean anything. Lots of guys use the latest gimmick to show they are "cutting edge". Guys used to use parachutes to train and that used to be considered state of the art, now most informed trainers don't use them.

they increase footspeed because it is practice...practicing moving your feet quickly will eventually cause improvement in that area. I should have mentioned most HOCKEY trainers use ladders(i don't have experience in other sports training). Every hockey trainer I have worked with has encouraged using ladders. This includes Olympic and NHL hockey trainers. They use ladders in NBH's hockey training program also...go check out the trainers they have demonstrating it.

I don't disagree that practicing moving your feet will make them quicker, in the pattern that you are practicing them. I've never seen anyone skating in a manner that looking like they are traversing a ladder.

Trainers have done many things in the past, doesn't mean they are right. How many people preached the lactic acid myth for years? That didn't turn out to be true, but trainers accepted it because they never actually bother to do any research.

You are not suggesting that those who have agility ladders use a drill in which they just go up and down it in a straight forward path?

Because before I couldn't understand your argument. In what I wrote in my last post, its not a question of whether they help you develop quick feet/agility, because using a ladder will help you. I see your problem is moreso the specific exercise w/ them and how you don't believe it mimics hockey actions.

There are many sequences that can be done on a ladder which mimic hockey much more than simply going through the ladder up and down. And there are many other types of plyometrics that are not exactly common hockey motions either. But in the end, as long as you use the correct mechanics, you will be training your fast twitch muscels and you will be helping your quickness and developing quicker feet.

As I said before, just about every drill can be done without the $45 ladder though.

[xMenace 0]

I can't comment on your exercises without seeing them. From what I've learned, make sure that you have a soft surface for high impact jumps or lose them altogether. You want to increae footspeed and power, not cause stress fractures. Try warming up by skipping rope. It fits the plyo regimine very well. I'll describe one exercise I've done, dunno what it's called: move laterally, side to side, bend real low, swing each leg in behind the other and you land on each foot and spread the wings for balance. It's a decent emulation of a skating stride with low impact. I've also done lateral jumps over objects which I found to be really good.

Another plyo type workout, which you will really love or really hate, is DDR. If you don't knw what that is, you're prolly too old. My teens have incorporated this as a main part of their summer workouts. The first time my 16yr old girl put a heart monitor on she measured 212! My 14yr old boy typically gets in the high 180's or higher on the fast tracks. There are absolutely no motivation problems and their workouts typically go 40+minutes. My son did 20+ hours between May 1 and July 15. He'd have done more, but I hold him back and make him run or bike instead - he hates me! :)

[Edge 0]

There are two ways to train, GPP, or general physical preparedness which form the building blocks.  Things like weight training, conditioning, explosiveness training are all GPP.  Only by practicing the SPP, Specific Physical Preparedness, will the actual skill get better.  If you do all your GPP, it provides the basis for which to improve your particular SPP.  So you can build up the GPP portion, but in the end you have to practice skating to see any benefit from it.  IE, if you spend the whole summer lifting, running, and doing plyos, you won't see benefit the instant you step on the ice.  You have to practice to transform that into improved skating.

So yeah, the only way to get better at skating is to skate.  The other stuff is just improving the tools you have that contribute to your skating.

There is no convincing you apparently...

Is it needed to get technical about the types of training and what not? Bottom line is doing these particular excercises benefits hockey players on the ice in the long run. So why not perform them?

*BTW, you dont have to buy a $45 ladder. It can be done by simply taping the floor in that shape or making your own.

[Trooper 8]

There are two ways to train, GPP, or general physical preparedness which form the building blocks.  Things like weight training, conditioning, explosiveness training are all GPP.  Only by practicing the SPP, Specific Physical Preparedness, will the actual skill get better.  If you do all your GPP, it provides the basis for which to improve your particular SPP.  So you can build up the GPP portion, but in the end you have to practice skating to see any benefit from it.  IE, if you spend the whole summer lifting, running, and doing plyos, you won't see benefit the instant you step on the ice.  You have to practice to transform that into improved skating.

So yeah, the only way to get better at skating is to skate.  The other stuff is just improving the tools you have that contribute to your skating.

There is no convincing you apparently...

Is it needed to get technical about the types of training and what not? Bottom line is doing these particular excercises benefits hockey players on the ice in the long run. So why not perform them?

*BTW, you dont have to buy a $45 ladder. It can be done by simply taping the floor in that shape or making your own.

So we'll have to agree to disagree, nothing wrong with that.

Is it necessary to get technical? Well, considering you are training a highly complex organism (the human body), I think understanding why you are doing something and why it does or doesn't work necessitates getting somewhat technical. There is too much oral tradition being paraded around as fact in training circles. Again, lactic acid buildup causing impaired functioning of muscles is one of the best examples. For years people accepted it as gospel based on ONE study in which current was passed through a disembodied frog leg. That was the only study the theory was based on. Now that we have more research, we find out that isn't the case.

[hockechamp14 0]

With your way of thinking, the ONLY way to improve skating is: to skate.  You don't have to mimic the skating stride exactly to improve it. In general, the ladder improves footspeed. It doesn't matter which way you move your feet, you will move your feet faster on the ice if you practice moving them fast off of it.  Like Theo said, I don't understand why there is any debate on this.

There are two ways to train, GPP, or general physical preparedness which form the building blocks. Things like weight training, conditioning, explosiveness training are all GPP. Only by practicing the SPP, Specific Physical Preparedness, will the actual skill get better. If you do all your GPP, it provides the basis for which to improve your particular SPP. So you can build up the GPP portion, but in the end you have to practice skating to see any benefit from it. IE, if you spend the whole summer lifting, running, and doing plyos, you won't see benefit the instant you step on the ice. You have to practice to transform that into improved skating.

So yeah, the only way to get better at skating is to skate. The other stuff is just improving the tools you have that contribute to your skating.

You kind of contridict yourself. GPP is basically anything you do off ice besides shooting pucks and rollerblading. But the fact is, if you've been training correctly your GPP should make your skating stride longer by stregnthening your quads, posterior chain and calves in addition to working on knee, ankle, and hip mobility. If you've been working on your stregnthening properly, your forearms should be able to handle your stick and the puck way more easily, causing an increase in stickhandling ability and shot speed.

Speed ladders are ok to use as a warm up and such, and plyometrics are of no use if you don't already have the lower body stregnth. If you want to get faster just find a big grassy area or track and do some 30-40 yard sprints. But most importantly, STOP USING the legpress.

and Edge, you can move your feet as fast as you want, but if you don't have any power in your stride it doesn't matter. Look at paul coffey, mario lemieux, and neidermeyer skating just for a minute. They are some of the fastest players, yet thier foot movment isn't that fast.

[willy0314 0]

Speed ladders are ok to use as a warm up and such, and plyometrics are of no use if you don't already have the lower body stregnth. If you want to get faster just find a big grassy area or track and do some 30-40 yard sprints. But most importantly, STOP USING the legpress.

and Edge, you can move your feet as fast as you want, but if you don't have any power in your stride it doesn't matter. Look at paul coffey, mario lemieux, and neidermeyer skating just for a minute. They are some of the fastest players, yet thier foot movment isn't that fast.

i dont use the leg press as part of my strength building workout routine. The majority of the time I do squats and dead lifts calf raises, and adductor/abductor machine. Occasionally i'll do one legged step ups with 100lb DB's in each hand though for variety. Im 5'8" 22 years old, 160 lbs. I work out with about 300 in the squat rack.

I know that everyone says not to do the leg press machine. You hear that every single time someone asks a question about lifting weights for hockey. I would like to hear someone tell me why it is so bad though. The one in our weight room is basicly a horizontal weight sled, (which is basicly a squating motion sideways except the weigth isn't transfered down the length of your back to your legs like it is in a squat)

I think this thread is a great example of the problem i've had while trying to research plyo's. Everyone has their own oppion on what to do, and can cite all this different crap to back up their claim.

As far as ladder drills go, I started doing them when while playing travel soccer while growing up. I use the blocks on the floor of the weight room, putting each foot down twice in each block. I can tell you the drill will make your foot speed faster. Whether or not this will translate into my being faster on the ice I do not know. But to me it stands to reason that with improved foot speed, you should be able to skate faster. I think in the end with an increased strength base, plyometric work, and foot speed drills such as running ladders, my skating and overall game will improve.

[Trooper 8]

You kind of contridict yourself. GPP is basically anything you do off ice besides shooting pucks and rollerblading. But the fact is, if you've been training correctly your GPP should make your skating stride longer by stregnthening your quads, posterior chain and calves in addition to working on knee, ankle, and hip mobility. If you've been working on your stregnthening properly, your forearms should be able to handle your stick and the puck way more easily, causing an increase in stickhandling ability and shot speed.

No, GPP provides the tools to do this stuff. They don't make you a better skater instantly, that must be trained. After improving your GPP you have a better box of tools to work with. The CNS must then be trained to apply this to the specific movement.

[hockechamp14 0]

You kind of contridict yourself. GPP is basically anything you do off ice besides shooting pucks and rollerblading. But the fact is, if you've been training correctly your GPP should make your skating stride longer by stregnthening your quads, posterior chain and calves in addition to working on knee, ankle, and hip mobility. If you've been working on your stregnthening properly, your forearms should be able to handle your stick and the puck way more easily, causing an increase in stickhandling ability and shot speed.

No, GPP provides the tools to do this stuff. They don't make you a better skater instantly, that must be trained. After improving your GPP you have a better box of tools to work with. The CNS must then be trained to apply this to the specific movement.

OK i must be so wrong, because it's not like I've ever experienced getting better at hockey or anything.

I think though if you're skating and playing consistantly, then it really doesn't matter. I imagine it would be different if you took the summer off from playing hockey.

[Edge 0]

and Edge, you can move your feet as fast as you want, but if you don't have any power in your stride it doesn't matter. Look at paul coffey, mario lemieux, and neidermeyer skating just for a minute. They are some of the fastest players, yet thier foot movment isn't that fast.

Thats common sense...but you must have quick feet for lateral movement, crossovers, pivots, etc. Power will do no good without quickness, and vice versa.

Why is Leg Press bad for hockey?

[hockechamp14 0]

and Edge, you can move your feet as fast as you want, but if you don't have any power in your stride it doesn't matter. Look at paul coffey, mario lemieux, and neidermeyer skating just for a minute. They are some of the fastest players, yet thier foot movment isn't that fast.

Thats common sense...but you must have quick feet for lateral movement, crossovers, pivots, etc. Power will do no good without quickness, and vice versa.

Why is Leg Press bad for hockey?

The bolded statement includes pivots crossovers and backwards skating along with lateral movement. Watch any good athlete at any sport, they're low all the time, and have the power to explode off thier legs in any direction. Power IS quickness. Besides, if your CNS level of force applied improves through sprinting, your muscle firings in the power of other movements will improve too.

Force * Speed = velosity

Stregnth * Speed = power

you need stregnth to be able to move fast. Ask any good coach. Charlie Francis even sites this in that:

- Ben Johnson who ran a 9.79 after shutting down 6/7 through the 100 meters and almost walking across the Seoul, Korea finish line never worked on his "step quickness"

- Sprinting is like hockey in that speed is determined by stride legnth * stride repetition speed. Ben Johnson never increased his stride legnth in his faster and faster times. He improved his stride repetition by increasing stregnth levels, not by doing speed ladders.

You guys are looking for quick fixes, just getting as strong as you can is more important for almost any of the people on this site now.

Leg press is bad for any sport because it essentially isolates the movement without use of glutes which are important for any sport athlete. Also, the position you put your back in while doing them sucks too. If you find one that won't mess up your back, fair enough, they're still a waste of your time.

[Edge 0]

But see my point is that if you just lift and lift and lift and get your legs as powerful as possible, without training for quickness in drills like ladders and what not, your legs will be sluggish on the ice. Of course power is needed for moving fast, but quickness has just as much of an effect in hockey, if not more, than just having good power. Like Theo said, getting that first step on someone is way more important than reaching your top speed in your stride.