TORN ACL :(

[lavoie17 0]

Back in Jan i had a knee to knee collision with a newbie skater in a shinny (nothing against them) basically what happened was that he skated into me and i didnt see it, admiring my pass i admit it, basically he didnt know how to stop so he used me to stop in full flight!!!!!. I hit the boards after the intial contact, so he hit my knee with his knee then my knee hit the board, talk about killing 2 stone with one bird. went to the clinic next day, had a xray said it was ok, knee was swollen as hell, no mobility at all 2 weeks on crutches....

FLASHFOWARD:

I went to the family doctor, (he came back from vacation), he checked my knee then said somethings wrong...could be torn or strained acl, mcl, or mensicus (surprisingly he didnt sent me for a mri), but he sent me to the physio and then the phyiso said possible torn mencuis then said to me, go back to the doctor to get a mri...i did then the doctor sent me to a sports specialist(it took 3 wbefore i got to see him, the knee was getting better, could walk and bend) . The sport specialist checked my knee said there was nothing major wrong with it, he did some movement tests and even said you can ride the bike every day for 30 mins and if u feel good u can go for a light skate..(i did, a week later) and if u feel ready, u can go play hockey but take it easy at first (i did a week after light skating) 3rd game, i had 3 goals, 4 assists in a beer league game, i subbed for my buddy on his team. I felt great, knee was sore but i thought thats norm. Then i got called in for a mri, about time i was exicted so i could get it all cleared out and focus on hockey...last night i played hockey again, did great then today i got a phone call from my knee speicalist saying that i have torn acl and mcl damage and he wants to see me asap to discuss about it.

My point, i dont get it how awesome can i be playing hockey with a torn acl. im so sad and disappointed :( (sorry about the long thread,i just needed to vent out cuz next saturday i am supposed to play for BRITISH COLUMBIA ROCKIES DEAF HOCKEY CLUB, and we re playing the Vancouver Canucks Alumni for fundraising http://www.bcdeafhockey.com/

so im so angry and confused i dont understand, do u guys think the doctors made a mistake on how they dealt with my knee injury...man this sucks

[D aka speck 0]

Man, you're situation sucks. I feel for you, but, I'm in no real position to second guess Doctors and the things they do. I suppose it's possible that they dropped the ball, but I don't imagine that there's a whole lot of people here that can make an honest assessment.

[fatwabbit 93]

same thing happened to me years back. Looking back, I think I already had a torn ACL, just that the doctor never really diagnosed it that way (damn military doctors are all shite). I still played in a tournament, had sore knees but was still able to do pretty well (5 goals in one game, 10 total for tournament of 6 games).

ACL completely tore during a military exercise a few months later... basically went thru a scope, then 2 months break before the ACL recon.

Dunno why they never push for the recon earlier...

Anyway, all is not lost. Just make sure you stick to the physiotherapy. Get it done, and build your muscles up again before you play. Take it easy,

[TomMc#4 0]

A guy on my team tore his and recovered during the assessments and the waiting list for his surgery was a while. anyway he managed to play at his full game up until surgery. the reason he had the surgery was because they said if he didnt it would mess him up later in life. afterwards its a year until full recovery to make sure there is no chance of further damage

[Monty22 833]

It's very common not to order diagnostic tests right off the bat. Normally doctors will hold off until the injury has had a chance to "calm down" or respond to therapy. Lastly, I don't know if an interent message board is the place to solicit advice on the quality of your medical care.

[Wolverine 0]

As a 'rule' I do not like to engage in these discussions (for many reasons). This is really on hour-long discussion. Medicine (especially orthopedics) is specific to each person's individual situation and should NOT be discussed on the internet.

So,for now........ DO NOT SKATE, PRACTICE OR PLAY HOCKEY!!

Return to the ice AFTER your reconstruction!!! That's all I'm going to say.

me?

Physical Therapist & Athletic Trainer

University of Michigan

This is my playground:

http://www.med.umich.edu/medsport/About/index.htm

At our clinic we see b/w 300-400 ACL tears per year.... more than any clinic in the world!

Be smart. Don't be a cavalier!

...... You're done!

Don't PM me. I'm not your health care provider. Listen to the professionals handling your case.

[epstud74 24]

Wolverine, I understand your postion, but the kid is deaf and it is much easier for him to procure information regarding his situation via the internet and chat logs he can actually read, than in normal conversation with a doctor/specialist. This communications discrepancy is probably the reason he wasnt able to get an MRI on his knee. He may not have been able to effectively communicate to his previous doctors exactly how he was feeling and where the pain is/was.

[BigDipper 0]

Wolverine, I understand your postion, but the kid is deaf and it is much easier for him to procure information regarding his situation via the internet and chat logs he can actually read, than in normal conversation with a doctor/specialist. This communications discrepancy is probably the reason he wasnt able to get an MRI on his knee. He may not have been able to effectively communicate to his previous doctors exactly how he was feeling and where the pain is/was.

I agree with both of you. It an extremely unfortunate situation. And knee injuries are those that can take years to properly heal. But as for you bud, I agree with Wolverine up there. Don't try your luck. I know it's hard, I've suffered serious injury through hockey as well and wanted to keep going, but in the reality of it all, it's just not worth it. You come first, not the game.

[fatwabbit 93]

I used to read this board alot, helped me understand some of the pains that others are going thru as well:

http://www.factotem.org/cgi-bin/kneebbs.pl

[Wolverine 0]

I used to read this board alot, helped me understand some of the pains that others are going thru as well:

http://www.factotem.org/cgi-bin/kneebbs.pl

You have to be careful with boards like that. Testimonials are dangerous things. Every case is very specific to the person going through the injury. There are just so many variables per individual. For example, you can have:

(2) People

- who are the same age

- have the exact same lesion in the knee

- have surgery by the same surgeon

- on the same day

- start rehab at the same time

- by the same therapist

..... and these two individuals have completely different outcomes!

Person "A"

- maybe has a high pain tolerance

- maybe has had a surgical procedure before

- he is NOT fearful of his knee after surgery

- does NOT lay down much scar tissue

- does NOT swell very much (compared to others)

- is aggressive with PT

- has full range of motion in 2 weeks

- very good quadriceps control in 1-2 weeks

- walks with a normal gait at week 3

- he misses no PT visits or workouts

- actually listens to his ortho & physical therapy team

- he does exactly what he is told

- he waits to achieve our objective criteria before returning to sport

- 6-8 months after his ACL reconstruction: is tearing it up out on the ice with reckless abandon without any complications

Person "B:

- has a low threshold for pain

- maybe has never had a significant injury

- has NOT had surgery before

- he is scared out of his mind that his knee hurts this much

- as a result, thinks something must be wrong

- is a "sweller", this large effusion causes reflex inhibition of quad

- because of pain/fear, will NOT work hard on his range of motion at home

- takes 4-5 weeks just to get his range of motion back

- has poor quad control for over a month and needs to stay on crutches

- walks with a bent-knee gait..... which is horrible

- skips 1/3 to 1/2 of PT visits

- half listens to his rehab team

- does not push it and work hard enough in PT

- at 6-8 months, does NOT pass all of our criteria to return to sport

- returns to sport/practice/recreation anyway.... without permission

**** As a result, has persistent knee pain, mild edema, and only fair quad bulk and control.

***** Then, this same little prick goes around telling everyone NEVER to have the reconstructive surgery. It's the worst thing he has every done. He should have just played sports with the torn ACL and would have been "much better off." Tells all of his relatives, friends, colleagues never to let our surgeons operate on them or get rehab at our center.... etc. etc. etc.

Basically, testimonials are worthless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll bet the farm that 2/3rds of the individuals complaining of their knee with sport after ACL reconstruction either failed to meet ALL CRITERIA before returning to activity........... or, more importantly..... did NOT keep up with the home/gym program to keep their leg strong.

We are very strict and EXTREMELY DEMANDING criteria to return to sport. We absolutely CRUSH (in a good way) our patients and make them very strong before progressing.

For example: our ACL (or any knee injury/surgical) patients much pass a basic "Leg Press Test" before they intiate jogging or agilities or plyometric training. I'm not even talking about return to sport!

Leg Press Test

- One leg only! (injured leg)

- 90 degree knee angle

- Full body weight (ex: if you weight 175 lbs..... you press 175 lbs.)

- One set only

- You MUST perform 15-20 reps!!!!!!

- Must!!

- If you cannot rep out 15-20 reps at 100% body weight, it's "back to the gym" until you can! We don't care if it takes (2) years! We will not clear you for your rehab progression!

**** Many athletes eventually end up at the University for a second opinion, because things are not going well: can't play sport well, have persistent knee pain, maybe a low grade edema that does NOT resolve.

We will test them (in many ways)........... 90% of the time, they never got strong enough or worked hard enough to really fully recover before progressing.

......................................................................

What this 'long-winded' explanation is getting at is:

Coming back 100% to a sport after a major injury takes long, hard, arduous work! Most people (and probably 75% of those reading this) truly do not understand how hard you have to push yourself & how strong you have to be to actually make it 100% back & be painfree!

Again, testimonials are meaningless!!!!!!!!!!

okay, end of rant!

[Wolverine 0]

To the young man that started this thread (lavoie17).

After your ACL reconstruction (remember, surgery is the EASY part), the single best thing you can do for yourself is to find the meanest SOB of a physical therapist or athletic trainer that you can find!

An ornery prick that will push you harder than you have ever been pushed. Someone that when you are 24 hours out of surgery and say "it really hurts to bend my knee", he responds "Phuck you! Keep bending it or I'll beat you down with your own crutch!"

............. now, that's the guy you want!

Yup, that feller will have you back on the ice 100% in about 6-8 months playing with reckless abandon and you won't even be thinking about the knee!

- be prepared to cry

- be prepared to bleed

- be prepared to vomit

- be prepared to pass out!

That's rehabing 'an athlete!'

Hopefully, the young man is continuing to read this thread.

[jwr 0]

Amen on the PT. Be agressive-push yourself and stay commited. Speaking from experience I would have to agree with Wolverine. No two people rehab the same.

[flyerman 0]

To the young man that started this thread (lavoie17).

After your ACL reconstruction (remember, surgery is the EASY part), the single best thing you can do for yourself is to find the meanest SOB of a physical therapist or athletic trainer that you can find!

An ornery prick that will push you harder than you have ever been pushed. Someone that when you are 24 hours out of surgery and say "it really hurts to bend my knee", he responds "Phuck you! Keep bending it or I'll beat you down with your own crutch!"

............. now, that's the guy you want!

Yup, that feller will have you back on the ice 100% in about 6-8 months playing with reckless abandon and you won't even be thinking about the knee!

- be prepared to cry

- be prepared to bleed

- be prepared to vomit

- be prepared to pass out!

That's rehabing 'an athlete!'

Hopefully, the young man is continuing to read this thread.

Sounds like he should just see you!

[lavoie17 0]

Awesome, thank you to all who replied to this thread, i appreicate the support and Wolverine i will take up your suggestion to go to the meanest physical therapist ever. Thanks Boys, thats why i love hockey, it brings all of us players together no matter what the reason is. Cheers!

I showed up to Practice and i had to tell the boys that I'm done, strange it was probably the hardest thing I ve ever done, I'm young and i have lots of time and still i really wanted to be with the guys in battle against the other Deaf Teams . Next year for sure, Ill come back way better, fitter and Leaner!.

ps.Wolverine, i wasn't trying to bash my doctors,I know they are doing their best and all of their abilities, Honestly i was just ranting and clearly frustrated.

[jbgordon 0]

To the young man that started this thread (lavoie17).

After your ACL reconstruction (remember, surgery is the EASY part), the single best thing you can do for yourself is to find the meanest SOB of a physical therapist or athletic trainer that you can find!

An ornery prick that will push you harder than you have ever been pushed. Someone that when you are 24 hours out of surgery and say "it really hurts to bend my knee", he responds "Phuck you! Keep bending it or I'll beat you down with your own crutch!"

............. now, that's the guy you want!

Yup, that feller will have you back on the ice 100% in about 6-8 months playing with reckless abandon and you won't even be thinking about the knee!

- be prepared to cry

- be prepared to bleed

- be prepared to vomit

- be prepared to pass out!

That's rehabing 'an athlete!'

Hopefully, the young man is continuing to read this thread.

I can't agree more. I tore my ACL a year ago on a hit I never saw coming. Got surgery a month after the tear, and after 5 months of very dedicated rehab with a knowledgeable trainer who pushed me hard every day (1.5 hour every day for the first 3 months), I was back playing hockey with little thought about the knee.