Thinking about playing goal

[vision 0]

Danglers, IMNSHO, provide the wearer with a false sense of security which can have negative results. Use of one in conjunction with good protection that wraps the neck makes sense altho I've only attempted to use a dangler on a few occasions and never with any success. I don't step onto the ice or floor without a Maltese GPSCombo protecting my neck and clavicle so that might tell you how I feel about it.

::m

disclaimer: I work with phil and have been using the GPSCombo since it was two separate units and not the single unit that it is now.

[srv2miker 0]

I would recommend wearing both. I know some people are anti-dangler because of the possibility of breakage, but it's not like that's a common occurrence. The dangler helps to diffuse impacts to my clavicle, and the collar protects against skate cuts. I don't see any drawback to wearing both.

[mickz 107]

Thanks for the suggestions. In what ways is the Maltese better than something off the shelf from one of the mainstream brands?

[Phantom 19]

The Maltese is lower profile (less bulky) than most off the shelf neck protection. It's also gel, which means its more flexible, takes high impacts well, and doesn't retain heat as well as other throat guards. I won't get on the ice without my Maltese on, period. I took a shot to the throat last year which shattered my dangler and impacted on the Maltese. It still sucked, but I would have been in the hospital without that GPS Combo.

I still wear a dangler for deflection purposes, but the Maltese is the real protection. I wouldn't consider any other throat guard on the market.

[nicholus.h 0]

Wow, I'm in late, but here's my 2 cents...

What's with all the dangler hate? For a beginner, Maltese is over-rated. You usually aren't taking super hard shots, so you're buying too much pad. In general the point of the dangler is impact protection and the neck guard is cut protection. You can protect your neck quite well at a beginner level for something like half the cost of the Maltese. If you're just getting into the position and looking to go cheap, dangler+cheap neck guard is great. Hell, I've taken shots from a current minor pro in a dangler/neck guard with no damage done save to the dangler. Of course, everybody has these stories about every piece of equipment they have...

I think a lot of the equipment advice is not really geared towards beginners. Playing in a beginning league, you are not going to be seeing a lot of really hard shots. You can skimp on a lot of the things that people are saying not to. Spend money on a mask and a jock/cup. Everywhere else, pro-level equipment is way overkill and your body can take the damage anyways. You might feel some stingers from some of the better shots, but you can take it. For instance, your C/A and pants: if those aren't protective enough, you will feel stingers in your shoulders/pecs (big muscles) and your thighs (big muscles). It might hurt, but you'll be able to shake it off and 3 days later you won't be any worse for the wear. That's about $300-$400 you can save right there. Obviously, when you start moving up to higher and higher skill levels you'll want to upgrade, but for a beginner you don't really need a pro C/A and pants.

This all applies mostly to protection, but I think it goes for skates, too. About a year ago, I bought the cheapest new Bauer skates I could find (One55 - $200) and have not regretted it one bit. I play about 1.5 times a week, and they've lasted me year and will probably last me at least another.

When I started playing, I bought some cheap-ass gear. I think I spent about $1000. Most of that equipment has gotten me through about a year of beginner/low-level hockey and the pieces that haven't didn't fail because they weren't protective enough or broke down, they were just the pieces I replaced first. In that year, I learned how I like my C/A to feel, what I like in pants, how I want my pads to fit and rotate, that I like my glove to seal the ice completely, etc. I didn't know all those things when I was just starting to play, and there's no way I could have.

Good example: my chesty. I originally started with a C/A that I got for free (but probably would've paid about $100 if not for the hookups). That piece would hurt me hard if I was to face a high-level shot and I did take my share of stingers in it, but it served it's purpose for a beginner goalie. When I eventually upgraded, I spend $260 on a Reebok X-Pulse Pro on clearance that was not the most protective but was protective enough for me and offered the mobility that I want. If I had instead just bought a $400 Brown off the bat, I would be looking for a replacement. I won't replace the Reebok until I have to.

BTW, here is a great resource for pad sizing: ATK Database

[Phantom 19]

Wow, I'm in late, but here's my 2 cents...

What's with all the dangler hate? For a beginner, Maltese is over-rated. You usually aren't taking super hard shots, so you're buying too much pad.

Wholeheartedly disagree with this. Only skimp on protection if you plan on playing ONLY organized beginner level league stuff. Don't go cheap on a mask at all, and don't go cheap on throat protection if you're planning on hitting any open hockey. Bottom line is, there is absolutely no way of knowing who is going to show up to an open hockey session like drop in and stick and puck. That's where the injuries would happen, at least in my experience. It only takes one inconsiderate moron with a hard enough shot to really mess you up.

In general the point of the dangler is impact protection and the neck guard is cut protection. You can protect your neck quite well at a beginner level for something like half the cost of the Maltese. If you're just getting into the position and looking to go cheap, dangler+cheap neck guard is great. Hell, I've taken shots from a current minor pro in a dangler/neck guard with no damage done save to the dangler. Of course, everybody has these stories about every piece of equipment they have...

Probably because some of the stories are actually true. Go figure. Maltese is more expensive, but if you're looking for comfort and protection, it's the best. If you just want something to do the job and aren't picky about how it feels, then other throat guards will suffice.

[nicholus.h 0]

...plan on playing ONLY organized beginner level league stuff. Don't go cheap on a mask at all...

I think this is exactly what most beginners do. Given how inexperienced they are, there is a tendency to be afraid of open hockey because they might ruin a good time for others by being a sieve.

I never suggested a goalie go cheap on a mask and I never will.

If you just want something to do the job and aren't picky about how it feels, then other throat guards will suffice.

Most beginners just want something to do the job as cheap as possible. Hence, my suggestion.

In the end, you have to deal with the reality that most people just starting to play goalie are on a budget and will have to have prioritize what equipment they want to spend money on. I've told people that if they can't spend $350 to buy a good mask, they shouldn't play. I would say don't skimp on a cup/jock. A dangler/neck guard combo is not as comfortable as a Maltese, but it is quite protective and I would argue adequate for almost any level of shot you would face. Besides, what you really need in your neck area is cut protection, especially if you have a dangler to absorb much of the force of a hard shot. A normal neck guard will cut protect just as well as a Maltese.

Everything else, you can get by with cheap stuff. The overwhelming majority of shots that most beginner goalies face won't be enough to do any substantial

damage. Pads, C/A, pants, glove, blocker...it's not like I'm suggesting to players that they should play without these things. These are pieces you can easily get away with buying low level stuff (One55/60, Rbk 6/7K, etc.) without getting injured. There's still protection on that equipment. No, it won't completely deaden Zdeno Chara's slapshot, but it doesn't have to. As long as it stops that shot from breaking your arm when Zdeno Chara does comes to open hockey and rips a slapper your way, then it's fine, because that's not going to happen to often.

I am skeptical that you're seeing a lot of beginner goalies get "really messed up" at open hockey being hit by shots. Unless we have very different ideas of what "really messed up" means. If you aren't prepared to take a few stingers and get a few bruises, you should probably be playing left wing instead.

[Phantom 19]

I think you're missing my overall point here. The OP can cheap out on whatever he wants, and yes, you and I agree that the mask is important. Neck protection is neck protection, so if he wants to aim high, then the Maltese is the target. If not, then others will do fine I'm sure.

But my overall point is that just because someone plays beginner, doesn't mean they'll never see a hard shot to a vulnerable location. I don't know how long you've been playing goal, nicholus, but you'd be surprised to see how many beginner level goalies show up to open hockey sessions (especially if ice time is at a premium). These goalies are exposed to anyone who shows up, and while the majority are mediocre, there can be some pretty exceptional shooters, and a lot of people who don't always pay attention.

"Really messed up" = potential hospitalization. Forget the stingers that you keep referring to. If you want details of MY situation, I was at a stick and puck taking shots from folks on the blue line. Most were skating it in, and immediately after one guy did so, some guy on the left side ripped one (out of turn) and caught me in the throat. I was turned to my right from the first shooter, and never saw the slapshot coming. It shattered my dangler, impacted on my neck, and had I not been wearing a neck guard (Maltese), I know I would have been in the hospital. All rinks I've ever been to don't have medical personnel on staff, so in the case of a shot to a delicate area such as the throat, time matters. It just takes one ignorant jerk to ignore the safety of others to get someone truly injured. It was a freak incident in my case, but it could happen to any level of player.

Something for everyone to keep in mind.

[nicholus.h 0]

I think you're missing my overall point here. The OP can cheap out on whatever he wants, and yes, you and I agree that the mask is important. Neck protection is neck protection, so if he wants to aim high, then the Maltese is the target. If not, then others will do fine I'm sure.

This is kinda what I was saying about neck protection. I was just saying I didn't know what all the hate was for danglers. I don't think it's necessary for every goalie to have a Maltese. It is a nice item to have, but hardly necessary.

But my overall point is that just because someone plays beginner, doesn't mean they'll never see a hard shot to a vulnerable location. I don't know how long you've been playing goal, nicholus, but you'd be surprised to see how many beginner level goalies show up to open hockey sessions (especially if ice time is at a premium). These goalies are exposed to anyone who shows up, and while the majority are mediocre, there can be some pretty exceptional shooters, and a lot of people who don't always pay attention.

"Really messed up" = potential hospitalization. Forget the stingers that you keep referring to. If you want details of MY situation, I was at a stick and puck taking shots from folks on the blue line. Most were skating it in, and immediately after one guy did so, some guy on the left side ripped one (out of turn) and caught me in the throat. I was turned to my right from the first shooter, and never saw the slapshot coming. It shattered my dangler, impacted on my neck, and had I not been wearing a neck guard (Maltese), I know I would have been in the hospital. All rinks I've ever been to don't have medical personnel on staff, so in the case of a shot to a delicate area such as the throat, time matters. It just takes one ignorant jerk to ignore the safety of others to get someone truly injured. It was a freak incident in my case, but it could happen to any level of player.

Something for everyone to keep in mind.

I wasn't referring to the throat as an area to skimp. I think every goalie should have at least a dangler and a padded neck guard. Every goalie should have at least a Hackva and be protected by at least two quality cups.

I understood your point. I guess you see more beginner goalies (and jackass shooters) in open hockey then I do, but it doesn't really change MY point. Beginner goalies frequently need to prioritize their spending. People have limited budgets and beginners aren't usually in the full-on throes of gear whorism. Beginners often say "I'm on a budget and I need to cut some corners. What pieces of equipment do I need to make sure are quality?" The answer can't be "All of them." Too often, that's the answer that comes from experienced goalies who enjoy the benefits of nice pants and pro-level gloves and just don't want to feel hard shots in the thighs anymore. But that kind of protection is a luxury, not an absolute necessity and every piece of equipment can't be a high priority. You can play ice hockey in a lot of price-point equipment and very reasonably expect that you won't end up in a hospital because of it.

Case in point, Law Goalie's first post in this thread. "Make sure you get a good mask, good skates, good chest, good pants, good jock and good pads/gloves." THAT'S EVERYTHING. He says "DO NOT get a price-point C/A." and then suggests getting a Brown or McKenney. Sure, they're nice, but absolutely necessary? Worthy of all caps? Could you play in a 6K instead so you could pay for your child's insulin? You bet your sweet ass you could.

[srv2miker 0]

I think Law Goalies' point (and a recurring theme around here) is that it's generally better to buy used pro-level gear than to buy new price-point gear, and I'd have to agree.

My first C/A was POS Sherwood that protected nearly nothing. I was facing shooters in beginner hockey lesson, and was on the receiving end of numerous hard shots, many of which left significant bruises on my chest, arms, and underarms. Not fun.

I've since upgraded to a used prostock Reebok C/A (the bumblebee) and I haven't had a single bruise yet. I sold the Sherwood after about 3 weeks, it was that bad.

[nicholus.h 0]

I think Law Goalies' point (and a recurring theme around here) is that it's generally better to buy used pro-level gear than to buy new price-point gear, and I'd have to agree.

My first C/A was POS Sherwood that protected nearly nothing. I was facing shooters in beginner hockey lesson, and was on the receiving end of numerous hard shots, many of which left significant bruises on my chest, arms, and underarms. Not fun.

I've since upgraded to a used prostock Reebok C/A (the bumblebee) and I haven't had a single bruise yet. I sold the Sherwood after about 3 weeks, it was that bad.

No, I understand all these points. Boy, everybody thinks I'm some sort of...dumb hockey player.

So, basically, Law Goalie wasn't answering the question?

Maybe it is better to buy used pro-gear than new price-point gear. But at the same time, maybe some people don't want better, or need better. Maybe saving money is more important for some people. Maybe some people would be better off buying some equipment at a used price-point level. Maybe some people don't like buying used equipment because they feel uncomfortable playing in the remnants of other people's bacterial flora.

I mean, whatever the case is, I just find it weird that the OP asks about which equipment is lower priority and there were a lot of answers that didn't really address that or addressed it in a really roundabout way.

Whatever, hope nobody is/was offended. Here's my priority list with one being most important:

ESSENTIAL

1. Mask

2. Cup

3. Jock

4. Neck/Throat protection

IMPORTANT, (but you can definitely get by with less)

5. Chest

6. Pants

7. Skates

LUXURY

T8. Pads

T8. Gloves

10. Stick

[mickz 107]

The only thing I'm debating about is getting that Maltese combo. It's a bit out of my price range right now and with the calibre of players I'm currently facing I'm not too worried. I took my first test drive in my new gear on Monday Night with a $35 dangler and old neck guard I had lying around from Minor Hockey. The only complaint is the velcro from the neck guard is piling up one of the straps on my Hackva pretty badly even after just one ice time.

[nicholus.h 0]

The only thing I'm debating about is getting that Maltese combo. It's a bit out of my price range right now and with the calibre of players I'm currently facing I'm not too worried. I took my first test drive in my new gear on Monday Night with a $35 dangler and old neck guard I had lying around from Minor Hockey. The only complaint is the velcro from the neck guard is piling up one of the straps on my Hackva pretty badly even after just one ice time.

How is this happening? I can't imagine how this happening.

I had a problem with my neck guard velcro'ing to my jersey. I think it was the hooks that were grabbing my jersey, so I took some loops and stuck them to the hooks and then put some black cloth tape over it. Worked well until it came unstuck in my bag one day and I lost it somehow.

[Law Goalie 147]

Wow, I'm in late, but here's my 2 cents...

What's with all the dangler hate? For a beginner, Maltese is over-rated. You usually aren't taking super hard shots, so you're buying too much pad. In general the point of the dangler is impact protection and the neck guard is cut protection. You can protect your neck quite well at a beginner level for something like half the cost of the Maltese. If you're just getting into the position and looking to go cheap, dangler+cheap neck guard is great. Hell, I've taken shots from a current minor pro in a dangler/neck guard with no damage done save to the dangler. Of course, everybody has these stories about every piece of equipment they have...

Your comments make no sense. First you criticise the Maltese for being 'over-rated,' by which I assume you mean either less protective than it claims to be, or less valuable than it is claimed to be. You then go on to admit that, as I and others have said, danglers are disposable items. How many danglers need to be broken before you're approaching the cost of a Maltese - or indeed, any other protective neck-guard like a Battram Gel, a Smith, Vaughn, or Brian's?

I think a lot of the equipment advice is not really geared towards beginners. Playing in a beginning league, you are not going to be seeing a lot of really hard shots.

You don't need to take a hard shot to be injured. A 60mph shot to an unprotected spot will do plenty of damage. Then again, you call yourself a beginner, yet you're facing shots from "a current minor pro," nicely illustrating the point that perceived or believed level of play does not necessarily correspond to threat level.

You can skimp on a lot of the things that people are saying not to. Spend money on a mask and a jock/cup. Everywhere else, pro-level equipment is way overkill and your body can take the damage anyways. You might feel some stingers from some of the better shots, but you can take it. For instance, your C/A and pants: if those aren't protective enough, you will feel stingers in your shoulders/pecs (big muscles) and your thighs (big muscles). It might hurt, but you'll be able to shake it off and 3 days later you won't be any worse for the wear.

This is dangerously stupid advice. You are, I see, blithely unaware of the risk of impacts to the heart and sternum generating serious cardiac events, and of people whose hands might be necessary to their work.

When I started playing, I bought some cheap-ass gear. I think I spent about $1000. Most of that equipment has gotten me through about a year of beginner/low-level hockey and the pieces that haven't didn't fail because they weren't protective enough or broke down, they were just the pieces I replaced first. In that year, I learned how I like my C/A to feel, what I like in pants, how I want my pads to fit and rotate, that I like my glove to seal the ice completely, etc. I didn't know all those things when I was just starting to play, and there's no way I could have.

And my point has consistently been that your $1000 could have been better spent on more durable equipment that would have represented a better investment. I'm glad you're pleased with how you spent your money; you ought not to suggest on so little experience that your decisions were optimal or exemplary.

Good example: my chesty. I originally started with a C/A that I got for free (but probably would've paid about $100 if not for the hookups). That piece would hurt me hard if I was to face a high-level shot and I did take my share of stingers in it, but it served it's purpose for a beginner goalie. When I eventually upgraded, I spend $260 on a Reebok X-Pulse Pro on clearance that was not the most protective but was protective enough for me and offered the mobility that I want. If I had instead just bought a $400 Brown off the bat, I would be looking for a replacement. I won't replace the Reebok until I have to.

And why would you be looking to replace the Brown? Have you ever worn one?

A well-used Brown can often be had for $100, and presents a significantly greater degree of protection than any price-point C/A.

Case in point, Law Goalie's first post in this thread. "Make sure you get a good mask, good skates, good chest, good pants, good jock and good pads/gloves." THAT'S EVERYTHING. He says "DO NOT get a price-point C/A." and then suggests getting a Brown or McKenney. Sure, they're nice, but absolutely necessary? Worthy of all caps? Could you play in a 6K instead so you could pay for your child's insulin? You bet your sweet ass you could.

No, that's not everything: it's an ordered list of some things which I consider to be priorities. Notice no stick, no jersey, no wheel bag, no paintjob, and so on.

Since you are clearly unaware of the importance of chest protection, I will ask a different question. Do you have any idea what a mid-range Reebok costs in relation to a low-end McKenney?

Your suggestion that a parent of a diabetic child should continue to play a dangerous sport ill-equipped when they are in financial straits narrow enough to risk going without necessary medication is particularly brilliant.

And some time later...

No, I understand all these points. Boy, everybody thinks I'm some sort of...dumb hockey player.

Evidently not, and evidently so.

So, basically, Law Goalie wasn't answering the question?

No, I did answer the question; you opted not to read the answer, as is your wont.

Maybe it is better to buy used pro-gear than new price-point gear. But at the same time, maybe some people don't want better, or need better. Maybe saving money is more important for some people. Maybe some people would be better off buying some equipment at a used price-point level. Maybe some people don't like buying used equipment because they feel uncomfortable playing in the remnants of other people's bacterial flora.

Obviously the discussion is of better value, which would be a function of protection and cost, among other things.

Do you actually believe that the bacteria on your body differ from those on anyone else's? How singularly odd.

If you're having a Howard Hughes moment, just spray everything nylon with isopropyl alcohol and steam the rest.

I mean, whatever the case is, I just find it weird that the OP asks about which equipment is lower priority and there were a lot of answers that didn't really address that or addressed it in a really roundabout way.

I gave the OP a prioritised list. The only difference was that I used sentence form, and you decided to make a pointless numerical list.

Other people also gave general advice on fit and function that was quite sound.

More broadly, the kind of prioritisation you're proposing is pointless until there is a clear idea of budget and purpose in each case. For example, for a *truly* low-end or junior player, a helmet and cage is plenty protective - in fact, more protective than most low-end masks, and much cheaper.

[jds 20]

Okay, so I tried playing goal for the first time and I could not get over how tired I was. With a goalie son, I have always skill of goaltenders but my appreciation level has increased tenfold. I was drenched and sore and I sucked. I was fortunate enough to be able to borrow some decent (although 12") pads and a pro-level CA that was so big and stiff I could barely move but I could have taken a slapper from anyone in it ( I did manage to get in the way of a couple shots).

My question is about the pads and moving in them. Mine had thigh boards and I found these got in the way a lot. I also found the pads bumping into each other a fair bit and sometimes getting caught on each other. There also didn't seem to be the rotation in the pads that I was expecting even when "driving my knees to the ice" as has been suggested. I left the top straps pretty loose but I could still feel them pulling on the back of my legs. Any advice on stance or adjustment that might make moving around in al this stuff a bit "easier"? Oh, and how do you stop the flinch reflex that makes you contract all your limbs in an attempt at self preservation when a hard projectile is coming at you really fast?

[jcp2 2]

Okay, so I tried playing goal for the first time and I could not get over how tired I was. With a goalie son, I have always skill of goaltenders but my appreciation level has increased tenfold. I was drenched and sore and I sucked. I was fortunate enough to be able to borrow some decent (although 12") pads and a pro-level CA that was so big and stiff I could barely move but I could have taken a slapper from anyone in it ( I did manage to get in the way of a couple shots).

My question is about the pads and moving in them. Mine had thigh boards and I found these got in the way a lot. I also found the pads bumping into each other a fair bit and sometimes getting caught on each other. There also didn't seem to be the rotation in the pads that I was expecting even when "driving my knees to the ice" as has been suggested. I left the top straps pretty loose but I could still feel them pulling on the back of my legs. Any advice on stance or adjustment that might make moving around in al this stuff a bit "easier"? Oh, and how do you stop the flinch reflex that makes you contract all your limbs in an attempt at self preservation when a hard projectile is coming at you really fast?

I got rid of my thigh boards and went to thigh wraps and knee pads. I keep my legs a bit farther apart when skating and I also have 11" wide pads. I get my pad rotation by having the straps behind the knees tight and everything else loose, but that may not work for you depending on what pad you have. I still flinch after some time away from the game to the point of falling over backwards in warm-ups. It makes the shooter feel really good.

[jds 20]

I got rid of my thigh boards and went to thigh wraps and knee pads. I keep my legs a bit farther apart when skating and I also have 11" wide pads. I get my pad rotation by having the straps behind the knees tight and everything else loose, but that may not work for you depending on what pad you have. I still flinch after some time away from the game to the point of falling over backwards in warm-ups. It makes the shooter feel really good.

so how does one see what the hell is going on around the pads? I feel like a fawn out there.

[jcp2 2]

so how does one see what the hell is going on around the pads? I feel like a fawn out there.

What brand and model pad do you have? Some older ones were never really designed to rotate well in a butterfly compared to the newer ones.

[jds 20]

What brand and model pad do you have? Some older ones were never really designed to rotate well in a butterfly compared to the newer ones.

They are RBK 5k from about three years ago-the 12" version