Hollow - weight's got nothing to do with it?

[Holden Caulfield 5]

Kind of slow here this weekend, so I thought I'd try and spark a discussion on a topic that I believe has a lot of misinformation.

Over the years, I have been experimenting with my hollow and have read numerous posts that suggest, as a rule of thumb, the lighter one is, the deeper one's hollow need be. This rule is often supported by the logic that a lighter person needs to compensate for the fact that they will not sink into the ice as deeply as a heavier person and therefore need the extra bite from a deeper hollow.

That said...

Centrifugal force is curiously absent from information on this topic. How does centrifugal force factor into hollow choice - the heavier one is, the greater the centrifugal force generated in a turn - this would suggest a heavier person would require a deeper hollow?

Has an empirical based study been done on hollows that quantifies the bite for a given weight and hollow relative to the centrifugal force generated to provide fact based direction on what is optimal?

Bottom line - is the hollow rule of thumb - lighter weight, the deeper hollow - based on fact or is it just dogma that has been passed along generation to generation? Should the recommendation to someone be to start at 1/2" and then seek out the shallowest hollow that gives them the optimal turning and stopping bite that works for them? This optimal could be deeper or shallower and that "weight's got nothing to do with it"

Regards,

KB

[Jesse_01 0]

Yeah weight has nothing to do with a person hollow. The way a person skates and the technique they use has everything to do with it. If you look at the nhl majority of the players are with in what 30lbs of each other give or take. Yet their hallows very so much. Its all personal preference. It would be like saying weight has to do with how tight you like your skates.

The hardness of the ice also affects what hollow to run. For me in the summer I use 7/8 and in the winter I use 3/4.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

centrifugal force is curiously absent because it is a "fictious" force as it is only present within a given reference frame.

however centripetal force, yes. in a rotating body, a more massive body can exert more force perpendicular to the tangent of the motion. This coupled with bite (inversely proportional to the RoH) means a fat ass on 1/2" will experience more resistive force as the blade tries to cut across the ice, than say a five year old player. However, leg strength is also a factor as the leg can apply more force to the blade.

weight, leg strength, skating style all go in, and make it a personal preference. perhaps there's good rules of thumb, but really, you wont know where you belong until you skate. i have heavier friends that are 100lbs heavier that skate on 7/16", i skate on 9/16" or 5/8".

apply all the science you want, but ultimately there's no formula to find your ideal hollow.... not without doing leg strength testing, measures of hardness of the ice, blade thickness, sharpening style, blade profile, weight, and whether you took a dump before hand.

/physicist

[Drewhunz 3]

centrifugal force is curiously absent because it is a "fictious" force as it is only present within a given reference frame.

however centripetal force, yes. in a rotating body, a more massive body can exert more force perpendicular to the tangent of the motion. This coupled with bite (inversely proportional to the RoH) means a fat ass on 1/2" will experience more resistive force as the blade tries to cut across the ice, than say a five year old player. However, leg strength is also a factor as the leg can apply more force to the blade.

weight, leg strength, skating style all go in, and make it a personal preference. perhaps there's good rules of thumb, but really, you wont know where you belong until you skate. i have heavier friends that are 100lbs heavier that skate on 7/16", i skate on 9/16" or 5/8".

apply all the science you want, but ultimately there's no formula to find your ideal hollow.... not without doing leg strength testing, measures of hardness of the ice, blade thickness, sharpening style, blade profile, weight, and whether you took a dump before hand.

/miniscule nerd

Fixed. He is correct btw.

[Jarick 5]

The missing phrase would be "all other things equal", but as many variables as there are, obviously that's rarely the case. Trial and error seems to be the best, especially with the new FBV sharpenings.

[dolomaster83 0]

Kind of slow here this weekend, so I thought I'd try and spark a discussion on a topic that I believe has a lot of misinformation.

Over the years, I have been experimenting with my hollow and have read numerous posts that suggest, as a rule of thumb, the lighter one is, the deeper one's hollow need be. This rule is often supported by the logic that a lighter person needs to compensate for the fact that they will not sink into the ice as deeply as a heavier person and therefore need the extra bite from a deeper hollow.

That said...

Centrifugal force is curiously absent from information on this topic. How does centrifugal force factor into hollow choice - the heavier one is, the greater the centrifugal force generated in a turn - this would suggest a heavier person would require a deeper hollow?

Has an empirical based study been done on hollows that quantifies the bite for a given weight and hollow relative to the centrifugal force generated to provide fact based direction on what is optimal?

Bottom line - is the hollow rule of thumb - lighter weight, the deeper hollow - based on fact or is it just dogma that has been passed along generation to generation? Should the recommendation to someone be to start at 1/2" and then seek out the shallowest hollow that gives them the optimal turning and stopping bite that works for them? This optimal could be deeper or shallower and that "weight's got nothing to do with it"

Regards,

KB

I Actually will always change the hollow depending on How the ice feels to me in the morning. I am fortunate to skate on the ice i will be playing on the morning of so this allows me to go to a deeper hollow on harder ice. Although it is all personal preference

[freestyla 0]

I did that once, but the ice feels nothing alike from morning to night. Morning (first on the ice) it's pretty hard, at night it's crazy soft. I'm newer to hockey so not exactly sure about the specifics of the ice but I'm guessing it's because the rink is very busy with lots of games and with only a couple of minutes between games the ice doesn't harden as much.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

centrifugal force is curiously absent because it is a "fictious" force as it is only present within a given reference frame.

however centripetal force, yes. in a rotating body, a more massive body can exert more force perpendicular to the tangent of the motion. This coupled with bite (inversely proportional to the RoH) means a fat ass on 1/2" will experience more resistive force as the blade tries to cut across the ice, than say a five year old player. However, leg strength is also a factor as the leg can apply more force to the blade.

weight, leg strength, skating style all go in, and make it a personal preference. perhaps there's good rules of thumb, but really, you wont know where you belong until you skate. i have heavier friends that are 100lbs heavier that skate on 7/16", i skate on 9/16" or 5/8".

apply all the science you want, but ultimately there's no formula to find your ideal hollow.... not without doing leg strength testing, measures of hardness of the ice, blade thickness, sharpening style, blade profile, weight, and whether you took a dump before hand.

/miniscule nerd

Fixed. He is correct btw.

:(

[layziebone_ 0]

I did that once, but the ice feels nothing alike from morning to night. Morning (first on the ice) it's pretty hard, at night it's crazy soft. I'm newer to hockey so not exactly sure about the specifics of the ice but I'm guessing it's because the rink is very busy with lots of games and with only a couple of minutes between games the ice doesn't harden as much.

I lights being on all day and sun intake as well as the heat from equipment loads in an arena make the ice softer as the day passes. Heat from people also add up to soften the ice a bit. A lot of building engineers are finding pretty revolutionary ways to build more efficient arenas these days though.

[Drewhunz 3]

/miniscule nerd

Fixed. He is correct btw.

:(

Don't fret, it takes one to know one ;)

[dolomaster83 0]

I did that once, but the ice feels nothing alike from morning to night. Morning (first on the ice) it's pretty hard, at night it's crazy soft. I'm newer to hockey so not exactly sure about the specifics of the ice but I'm guessing it's because the rink is very busy with lots of games and with only a couple of minutes between games the ice doesn't harden as much.

Well usually no one is on the ice between us skating and and the game that night

[aarondevera 0]

I'm fat and can't skate with anything deeper than 9/16. That logic works for me.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

/miniscule nerd

Fixed. He is correct btw.

:(

Don't fret, it takes one to know one ;)

i aint frettin

[freestyla 0]

I'm fat and can't skate with anything deeper than 9/16. That logic works for me.

So am I but I don't think I can skate on anything shallower than 7/16

[aarondevera 0]

I'm fat and can't skate with anything deeper than 9/16. That logic works for me.

So am I but I don't think I can skate on anything shallower than 7/16

Then there you go. Personal preference it is.

[ZurichLions 0]

Personal preference, i.e. skating style and skill is very important, more so than height and weight.

However, the most important part is the quality of ice. In our area (northern NJ), the quality of ice varies dramatically from rink to rink. My son's home rink is the Devils practice facility which has a thin and very hard sheet of ice. He needs a 3/8 hollow to execute tight turns properly. Many local rinks though also cater to figure skaters and their sheets often are thick and soft, which requires less bite. Someone also correctly mentioned that sheets get softer as the day goes on. Rinks normally are booked all day on weekends and the Zamboni drivers often lay on lots of water without allowing adequate time for the ice to harden.

I would also be careful with the "standard" hollow. Many pro shops are staffed by lazy teenagers and they do not always change the hollow to a standard setting but rather just leave the machine setting at whatever it happens to be set at that time.