Nutrition for the game.

[skyscrape 5]

I am hoping I may find someone on here who has had experience with team trainers, team nutritionists, or any other form for that matter. I know that there are some top level players out there who are not naturally lean or can not just eat whatever they want! I am hoping someone on here might be able to share their nutrition knowledge for guys like us. I need to lean out, but I skate 3-5 times a week, plus weights 3 days a week. If I follow most info I find online I feel terrible, no energy, no endurance, and no power on the ice. I guess I am wondering what has worked for some others on here. What works during the season for you guys? I need to lean out, but I have 5-6 months for that so it does not need to be super fast weight loss. Thanks.

[Katzenjammer 1]

If I follow most info I find online I feel terrible, no energy, no endurance, and no power on the ice.

So what is the advice you're following that makes you feel this way?

What is your current diet like?

You can get away with a lot if you're 18/20 yrs; but otherwise, if you're skating and in the weight room that much, you do need to be "dialed in" in terms of your diet; not being so will effect your energy, your recovery, your performance, your weight.

This^ is even truer if you want to lose a bit of fat while keeping optimal performance/recovery - difficult but can be done.

[skyscrape 5]

Most nutrition advice I have received is along the lines of the mediteranean diet. WHich is lower carb, balanced fats, balanced protein. EVerything I can find online for hockey nutrition is older info as in late 90's early 2000's, and I am not sure how much has changed. I am 30 so I do not get the benefit of the 20 year old metabolism or recovery anymore. So I want to get things dialed. I can accept that I will lose some performance while losing weight, but at the moment I am tapped out by the second or third period.

I eat clean, but I have been trying to eat when hungry not six times a day. This has been working and I have been dropping weight, but...now that I have reintegrated weight training I realize this is probably not going to work.

[Trooper 8]

What do you feel like in the weight room? What time are you on the ice? Does your energy level differ depending on the time? While a good diet is important, I don't think that's going to solve your problem. Are you playing games, practicing, stick time? What kind of shape are you in? That is probably the core of the issue.

[skyscrape 5]

Trooper,

I am 6'7 300lbs right around 20% bf. I typically lift in the evenings. Skate a fast drop in monday nights, skate a mediocre drop in Tuesday at noon, our adult league games are thursday nights. I try to get on the ice for a stick time on fridays. ALthough I am carrying extra weight around the mid section I am pretty athletic. I am not in as good a shape as I was in my Fire Academy, but still in pretty good shape. In the weight room I feel alright, but I will start to struggle completing reps 10-14 on the 3rd and 4th set. My energy level does very from time to time. I mean strength wise I can walk in squat 315, rep 225 on bench for 12, and dead lift 405. I have not lifted in close to a year so the numbers are a little low. I am not trying to get back to where I was when I was doing strong man comps, I want more core stability and explosiveness. I am not sure if this answers your questions.

[Katzenjammer 1]

Most nutrition advice I have received is along the lines of the mediteranean diet. WHich is lower carb, balanced fats, balanced protein. EVerything I can find online for hockey nutrition is older info as in late 90's early 2000's, and I am not sure how much has changed. I am 30 so I do not get the benefit of the 20 year old metabolism or recovery anymore. So I want to get things dialed. I can accept that I will lose some performance while losing weight, but at the moment I am tapped out by the second or third period.

I eat clean, but I have been trying to eat when hungry not six times a day. This has been working and I have been dropping weight, but...now that I have reintegrated weight training I realize this is probably not going to work.

okay, well I'd say that the low-carb thing's your problem; if you go low carb and play hockey/train in the weight room, you're just asking for trouble. Low carb diets - especially if you're exercising a lot - can cause high cortisol issues. High cortisol will cause you to gain & retain fat; high cortisol can also desensitize your testicles to LH/etc and cause your testosterone to drop. Low testosterone causes even higher cortisol. A vicious circle. Don't do it.

Low carb is okay if your doing light exercise and for the short term; in the longer term you need a balanced diet; and that includes carbs; and if you are exercising a lot, you need quite a bit of carbs and protein.

Rather than go low-carb, you need to change out the carbs you use: no wheat in any form (check out book, "Wheat Belly"), and no sugar, and cut out most grains in general.

Instead: white rice is an excellent carb - extremely clean, and completey free of allergens, and easy to digest. Potatos too. Some poeple like me tolerate oats quite well.

There could be many reasons for why you get tired - I bet it's related to the lack of carbs. Beyond that, almost everyone - unless you are drinking water all day - is a bit dehydrated; by the 2nd/3rd period you most definitely are unless you are drinking huge amounts of water.

I constantly sip this stuff with some rice powder for carbs while playing/lifting: http://www.dsm.com/l...me_peptopro.htm It's a bit expensive - you can use a high quality whey protein too.

That way, you get your water, your carbs, and your protein while playing. This helps you work/play harder; your recovery is happening while you're playing because the building block are there (your blood is filled with amino acids due to the protein intake). If you recover and play harder - and reduce your cortisol - you burn more fat.

When I want to lean out a little bit, I have a lot of my carbs for the day in the morning and around my workout; the rest of the day I take in less carbs. This is also a good strategy because usually in the morning your cortisol is highest (your cortisol peaks in order to wake you up); you can blunt and drive that cortisol first thing by taking in good, high quality carbs.

[skyscrape 5]

okay, well I'd say that the low-carb thing's your problem; if you go low carb and play hockey/train in the weight room, you're just asking for trouble. Low carb diets - especially if you're exercising a lot - can cause high cortisol issues. High cortisol will cause you to gain & retain fat; high cortisol can also desensitize your testicles to LH/etc and cause your testosterone to drop. Low testosterone causes even higher cortisol. A vicious circle. Don't do it.

Low carb is okay if your doing light exercise and for the short term; in the longer term you need a balanced diet; and that includes carbs; and if you are exercising a lot, you need quite a bit of carbs and protein.

Rather than go low-carb, you need to change out the carbs you use: no wheat in any form (check out book, "Wheat Belly"), and no sugar, and cut out most grains in general.

Instead: white rice is an excellent carb - extremely clean, and completey free of allergens, and easy to digest. Potatos too. Some poeple like me tolerate oats quite well.

There could be many reasons for why you get tired - I bet it's related to the lack of carbs. Beyond that, almost everyone - unless you are drinking water all day - is a bit dehydrated; by the 2nd/3rd period you most definitely are unless you are drinking huge amounts of water.

I constantly sip this stuff with some rice powder for carbs while playing/lifting: http://www.dsm.com/l...me_peptopro.htm It's a bit expensive - you can use a high quality whey protein too.

That way, you get your water, your carbs, and your protein while playing. This helps you work/play harder; your recovery is happening while you're playing because the building block are there (your blood is filled with amino acids due to the protein intake). If you recover and play harder - and reduce your cortisol - you burn more fat.

When I want to lean out a little bit, I have a lot of my carbs for the day in the morning and around my workout; the rest of the day I take in less carbs. This is also a good strategy because usually in the morning your cortisol is highest (your cortisol peaks in order to wake you up); you can blunt and drive that cortisol first thing by taking in good, high quality carbs.

Nice! Good info! When you say you use a rice powder, is there one in particular you like? I went today looking for a complex carb powder and everything was corn based, which seems strange to me considering I thought corn was not a complex card.

[Katzenjammer 1]

Nice! Good info! When you say you use a rice powder, is there one in particular you like? I went today looking for a complex carb powder and everything was corn based, which seems strange to me considering I thought corn was not a complex card.

I use this: http://proteinfactory.com/shop/product.php?productid=377&cat=2&page=2

At the same place you can get the peptopro as well. It's a good company; Alex Rogers is a really knowlegeable helpful guy if you need help.

Another thing to consider is what sort of fats you're eating; don't use any "Frankenoils" - cause major inflammation, which is bad for your joints/heart and cause weight gain, and won't help you on the ice or in the weight room.

Use olive oil sparingly; butter and coconut oil are great because they're short-chain which means they readily burn, which is good for energy and fat burning generally.

[skyscrape 5]

Thank you! How would you try to balance fat:carb:protein ratio?

[Powerfibers 8]

I went no flour, no sugar, and lost almost twenty pounds. At 42, I have pretty good energy for playing two league games and a drop in a week.

[skyscrape 5]

I went no flour, no sugar, and lost almost twenty pounds. At 42, I have pretty good energy for playing two league games and a drop in a week.

Where were you getting your carbs from?

[mug25 2]

Seeing as we're about the same in age/weight/schedule etc., I just wanted to tell you what I've been doing and how I have found huge increases in my energy levels on the ice, big gains in strength at the gym and best of all, very good results in fat loss (down 38lbs, 2 jean sizes, one shirt size in 20 weeks).

1. HIIT Cardio 2-3 nights a week after I lift. Not only does this really help burn fat but it also builds up your endurance in a manner that will translate onto the ice. If you workout in the mornings, do your cardio BEFORE you lift so you're burning fat. Complete opposite at night.

2. Proper Nutrition throughout the WEEK. Not just the day of a game. Not even the day before a game but the ENTIRE week, with maybe one or two "cheat" meals. When switching to a clean diet, I noticed my energy levels skyrocket. This may also have a lot to do with me losing 38lbs too though. If you're looking to shed weight, a clean diet is the foundation. Diet > Training > Supplementation

What I generally eat the night before is some form of slow-digesting (complex) carb + protein + veggies. The complex carbs provide a more stable, steady source of energy, rather than a sudden spike like simple carbs would.

3. Water! Water! Water! This should be #1 in fact. Drink a lot of water every day. It's so simple yet so many people overlook it. I drink a gallon or more of water a day. If you find that hard to do b/c water is "boring", you can add something like Scivation Xtend (which I'll get to next).

4. Supplements. They're not just for lifting weights. Before a game, I like usually take a Thermogenic Fat Burner, like Grenade or Cellucore D4. These aren't for everyone but they definitely provide a stable source of caffeine without a crash like a Red Bull, Monster or other poison energy drinks do. Also, DURING games I drink lots of water and also sip on Scivation Xtend, that stuff is full of BCAA's (Branch Chain Amino Acids) and help. After games I take a fast-digesting, zero-sugar carb called VitargoS2. It really aids in recovery, the stuff is amazing but expensive. Some will say just eat a sweet potato which you can definitely do.

5. Ample Sleep! Some people neglect this so much. Myself included sometimes. 7-8 hours. No more. No less.

Since you also weight-train, what I suggest for supplementation is this:

• Some for of pre-game / pre-workout supplement plan. Whether it's just a Thermogenic pill or a powder like Jack3d, N.O. Xplode or Assault, I think you should consider it if your energy levels are low before games. Also, dont think that because you're a bigger guy you can take more than the dosage on the label. Stick to what the company suggests you take and gauge your tolerance levels from there. Your body will build up a sort of immunity to these so you'll want to cycle off of them for a little bit before continuing use.

• Multi-Vitamin. So many people dismiss these as garbage. I suggest Opti-Men by ON, Orange Triad by Controlled Labs. I take Animal Pak. They help replenish the nutrients that your body uses throughout exercise.

• Intra-Workout. This is a BCAA drink such as Xtend. BCAA's are so underrated! Check out that link I posted above. There are a lot of brands of BCAA drinks but I think Xtend tastes the best so I stick with it.

• Post-Workout. A Zero-Sugar Carb drink such as Vitargo + a Whey Protein Powder. Also consider L-Glutamine pills or powder. (I prefer the pills).

• Pre-Bedtime. ZMA + Casein Shake. The ZMA aids in recovery and the Casein is a quality, time released protein that is slowly digested overnight. Benefits are, you're body gets protein while you're sleeping and you also wake up less hungry in the mornings.

[mug25 2]

I went no flour, no sugar, and lost almost twenty pounds. At 42, I have pretty good energy for playing two league games and a drop in a week.

Are you also lifting weights multiple times a week? Just curious.

[skyscrape 5]

Thanks Mug! DO you count calories? Or just eat balanced meals? This is the toughest part for me. If I look at calorie calculators they say I need 4000 plus calories just to lose weight. I am pretty sure that I am under eating. It is hard for me to eat a lot when I am trying to lose weight.

[Powerfibers 8]

Getting carbs mostly from whole grain cereal, white rice and healthy veggies. I don't lift other than some core medicine ball work and do some bike here and there. Mostly have time only for the workouts/activity associated with coaching or playing hockey right now. My routine is in no way as complex as yours, and I have not the nutritional knowledge beyond simply knowing that cutting out all products with sugar or white flour has worked. Eating balanced meals with equal portions of protein and veggies has worked well and I feel pretty darn good.

[Katzenjammer 1]

Thank you! How would you try to balance fat:carb:protein ratio?

I've been "dialing in" for so long I just go by instinct/common sense. Sorry I can't advise you here. The other fellow above I'm sure can though.

Another thing I was thinking about: low car diets can also rachet down thyroid function. Without carbs and with the effect on cortisol - > testosterone; and with poor recoveries, etc... your body is getting stressed. When that happens, your RT3 (reverse T3) goes up - when rt3 is elevated, that means that whatever t3 you're producing, much of it cannot be effective wrt the thyroid because the T3 receptors are essentially blocked.

It's much more complicated than that but that's the essence. What that means is that one's thyroid is not functioning as well as it should; which means you're going to feel more tired and colder than you otherwise would; and has all kinds of negative feedback consequences. The thyroid issue - and its consquences - feels especially nasty this time of year. Take your temperature as soon as you wake up (have a thermometer on your nightable and take it first thing without even moving) - and report back.

[ochockey 0]

If you need instant energy in a game or work out there are things called gells that give you instant energy

[mug25 2]

Thanks Mug! DO you count calories? Or just eat balanced meals? This is the toughest part for me. If I look at calorie calculators they say I need 4000 plus calories just to lose weight. I am pretty sure that I am under eating. It is hard for me to eat a lot when I am trying to lose weight.

I don't really count calories, I do pay attention to my portions. A lot of people who are trying to lose weight neglect to give their bodies the fuel they need. You should consider looking into Kris Gethin's book, Body By Design or his 12 Week Cutting the Fat program. It's amazing. I haven't followed his programs perfectly (yet) but I've taken bits and pieces of his and tailored my own program based on my schedule.

[skyscrape 5]

Getting carbs mostly from whole grain cereal, white rice and healthy veggies. I don't lift other than some core medicine ball work and do some bike here and there. Mostly have time only for the workouts/activity associated with coaching or playing hockey right now. My routine is in no way as complex as yours, and I have not the nutritional knowledge beyond simply knowing that cutting out all products with sugar or white flour has worked. Eating balanced meals with equal portions of protein and veggies has worked well and I feel pretty darn good.

Nice! This seems like a great way to ease in without stressing myself out over diet!

Thanks! This is great info! I appreciate all the help. It was funny, as I was reading about Thyroid function I was sitting here cold. This would make a lot of sense, especially since I have been dragging ass so much! I will get my temp tomorrow morning when I wake up.

If you need instant energy in a game or work out there are things called gells that give you instant energy

Thanks, i really had not thought about using gels.

[Katzenjammer 1]

Skyscrape - take your temp a few mornings in a row; it's important that you don't change your routine - don't eat a ton of carbs because it will throw off your readings. Just do exactly what you normally do.

[shooter27 116]

Along the lines of nutrition - I have a really bad habit of drinking Powerade all the time. I know I'm supposed to drink a lot of water, but I need something that has some flavor to it. I know that its empty calories and I should try to cut it out. Is there anything with flavor (even if its a water addative) that could give me the flavor and allow me to cut out the wasted calories? I've tried the Mio stuff that's been on TV for the last year, but it tastes terrible.

[AllCanadian 2]

I tend to drink BCAA's like its water, especially on game days. I prefer Xtend it's basically Biosteel without the marketing. You can get 90 servings for pretty cheap online. I'll mix 2 scoops in a one liter bottle. Your energy will be through the roof without the sugar crash and empty calories of Powerade.

[mug25 2]

Xtend is amazing for recovery! Sometimes I mix it into a gallon of water that I have at my desk all day. Helps get that 1 gallon of water requirement...

[skyscrape 5]

I will be getting some extend! I have heard way too many good things to pass it up! Any particular flavor?

[Scotty 8]

Great to see some others around here that are also passionate about nutrition and what it does within the human body. So many people fail to realize that nutrition is the ultimate basis for health and everything else should start here.