flat foot questions

[marckubu 0]

First post so go easy on me. Tried searching for a topic similar to this but I had no luck.

Over the last 10 years I've notice my left skate always seemed to wear out quickly or so I thought at least. It always seemed like my left ankle would start to sink in the more the skate broke in. The blades sits correctly on the ice it just seems like the boot starts to bend somewhat. I'm not sure if it's an ankle issue or maybe an arch issue that could be fixed. I don't have the problem with my right foot. I just purchased a new pair of skates so before the skates have the same problem I'd like to try and solve the problem before hand.

Any advice would be great. Thanks.

[burr14 17]

Maybe try superfeet? Not sure if that would fix said issue but I have flat feet and I was recommended superfeet to help skates fit better and prevent potential pain from arch issues.

[Vet88 674]

I suspect your foot is collapsing inward in the skate. This causes the heel / ankle area to break down fast as it comes under a sideways force, and the more you skate the worse it gets. Read this, one of the best articles I have come across that cover foot issues and the reason I purchased Grafs so I could manipulate the holder alignment easily.

http://www.ladyinredcreations.com/Ankles_Down.htm

[marckubu 0]

I suspect your foot is collapsing inward in the skate. This causes the heel / ankle area to break down fast as it comes under a sideways force, and the more you skate the worse it gets. Read this, one of the best articles I have come across that cover foot issues and the reason I purchased Grafs so I could manipulate the holder alignment easily.

http://www.ladyinredcreations.com/Ankles_Down.htm

I actually just purchased Grafs hoping that the better boot fitment would solve the problem. According to the article all the needs to be done is have the holder shifted upwards to 1/4 of an inch to center the blade in the foot. How easily is this done?

[marckubu 0]

I skated this morning and now thay I read that article I can feel the the blade doesn't feel centered on my left foot. It feels like it's toward the outside. Thanks for the advice Vet88. I'm going to try and have that fixed tomorrow afternoon and a shop unless there's a way I can do it myself. If so please fill me in.

[Vet88 674]

If you can operate a drill and a file, you can do it yourself, it's not really that hard.

A 1/4" is a long way to move the holder, I have generally found a shift of 1mm - 2mm is enough but it all depends on your situation. I recommend you take it slow, adjust it by 1mm, go for a few skates and see how it feels. As you have been skating for 10 years you should pick the difference up quite quickly. I find the one footed S drill (like figure skaters do) will tell you quickly how the skate feels under your foot.

You will need:

torx head screwdriver, size 2.0

either an electric drill and drill bit the size of the holes in the holder or a very small rat tail file or a dremel

a flat file

5mm? washers (I think they are 5mm, I can't remember) in stainless steel or copper or brass.

Vice or vice grips (to hold the washers as you work on them)

First, see how the holders are mounted on the boots. I gather your right foot is ok? This may be because the holder on the right skate is mounted closer to the inside of the boot than the left skate. Generally both feet will have similar pronation issues and if it is working for your right foot then use this as a guide for your left (in my case I moved the right holder by 1mm as the left was perfect, a case where poor manufacturing on the left boot actually worked in my favour). If the holders are offset as I indicated, measure the offset difference between them from the inside edge of the boot to the inside edge of the holder, this is the distance you want shift the holder on the left boot.

If the holders aren't offset then just proceed as follows and shift the left holder by a mm at a time with plenty of skating between each change.

Remove all but the rear inner screw from the holder. Mark forward and sideways center lines on the screw holes of the holder, this is so you can track how far you have enlarged the hole and that it is going in the right direction. Swing the holder off the bottom of the boot and start working on the 4 front mounting holes. I used an electric drill and slid the drill bit up and down the inside of the hole. The edges of the shank will grind the plastic away. You need to enlarge the mounting holes on the inner side of the holder towards the center and the outside mounting holes towards the outside of the holder. As you work away on each hole, keep checking your work by swinging the holder back onto the boot and check that the hole still lines up with the boot.

You will see that all the holes will be easy to do except the inner front and inner rear. As you enlarge these 2 inwards, they begin to encroach on the holder and the screw will not have enough clearance to screw back in. This is where the washers come into play, file down one side of the washer (I filed a V in the ones is used for the front screw) so the washers fit around the base of the holder and you have enough washers underneath the screw head so it will screw in and be clear of the holder.

When the front 4 holes are finished and the holder is where you want it to be, put the inner front screw back in then remove the rear screw. Repeat the hole enlarging process on the 4 back holes checking the alignment as you go. Whereas for the front holes I moved the holder by 1.5mm, for the rear I only moved it by 1mm. The skate felt stable under my foot with that adjustment.

Once everything is finished, put all the screws back in and you are done.

Couple of photos to show what I mean.

Picture of a drilled hole in holder

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa442/Vet88/2014-02-22160752.jpg

It's ironic that Graf actually made slots in the holder to do this, just not in the right place, grrr.

Picture showing screw going into amended hole. I was thinking of putting epoxy on the inside of the hole to back fill the gap to prevent the holder from shifting but all I did was tighten the screws down and the holder has never moved on me (12 months later, 2 hours a day nearly every day of the week).

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa442/Vet88/2014-02-22160832.jpg

Picture showing the 2 washers fitted under the inner front screw so that the screw clears the holder.

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa442/Vet88/2014-02-22160954.jpg

Honestly, it's not that hard and it took me about an hour to do once I had everything assembled. Do be careful when enlarging the holes and don't let the tool you use make contact with your boot. You could take the holder right off to work on it but I like to check frequently that the holes are still lining up as I go so the swing method was how I did it.

Also, when you hop back onto the ice the first time after the change it will feel really different. Don't give up at this stage, skate on it for at least 3 or 4 sessions so you get used to the different alignment of the holder and then make a change if you want to. Remember, you can always go back to the old position if you don't like it.

If you are moving the holder by more than 2mm you will run into issues with the front and rear inner screws making contact with the holder. Filing down the flange on the top of the screw will give you a little more room, also another washer or two will help but if you keep moving the holder you will eventually have to take to the holder and grind / file away a little section of the holder so the screw will fit correctly.

I hope this helps, let me know if you want any other pics or info.

[marckubu 0]

If you can operate a drill and a file, you can do it yourself, it's not really that hard.

A 1/4" is a long way to move the holder, I have generally found a shift of 1mm - 2mm is enough but it all depends on your situation. I recommend you take it slow, adjust it by 1mm, go for a few skates and see how it feels. As you have been skating for 10 years you should pick the difference up quite quickly. I find the one footed S drill (like figure skaters do) will tell you quickly how the skate feels under your foot.

You will need:

torx head screwdriver, size 2.0

either an electric drill and drill bit the size of the holes in the holder or a very small rat tail file or a dremel

a flat file

5mm? washers (I think they are 5mm, I can't remember) in stainless steel or copper or brass.

Vice or vice grips (to hold the washers as you work on them)

First, see how the holders are mounted on the boots. I gather your right foot is ok? This may be because the holder on the right skate is mounted closer to the inside of the boot than the left skate. Generally both feet will have similar pronation issues and if it is working for your right foot then use this as a guide for your left (in my case I moved the right holder by 1mm as the left was perfect, a case where poor manufacturing on the left boot actually worked in my favour). If the holders are offset as I indicated, measure the offset difference between them from the inside edge of the boot to the inside edge of the holder, this is the distance you want shift the holder on the left boot.

If the holders aren't offset then just proceed as follows and shift the left holder by a mm at a time with plenty of skating between each change.

Remove all but the rear inner screw from the holder. Mark forward and sideways center lines on the screw holes of the holder, this is so you can track how far you have enlarged the hole and that it is going in the right direction. Swing the holder off the bottom of the boot and start working on the 4 front mounting holes. I used an electric drill and slid the drill bit up and down the inside of the hole. The edges of the shank will grind the plastic away. You need to enlarge the mounting holes on the inner side of the holder towards the center and the outside mounting holes towards the outside of the holder. As you work away on each hole, keep checking your work by swinging the holder back onto the boot and check that the hole still lines up with the boot.

You will see that all the holes will be easy to do except the inner front and inner rear. As you enlarge these 2 inwards, they begin to encroach on the holder and the screw will not have enough clearance to screw back in. This is where the washers come into play, file down one side of the washer (I filed a V in the ones is used for the front screw) so the washers fit around the base of the holder and you have enough washers underneath the screw head so it will screw in and be clear of the holder.

When the front 4 holes are finished and the holder is where you want it to be, put the inner front screw back in then remove the rear screw. Repeat the hole enlarging process on the 4 back holes checking the alignment as you go. Whereas for the front holes I moved the holder by 1.5mm, for the rear I only moved it by 1mm. The skate felt stable under my foot with that adjustment.

Once everything is finished, put all the screws back in and you are done.

Couple of photos to show what I mean.

Picture of a drilled hole in holder

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa442/Vet88/2014-02-22160752.jpg

It's ironic that Graf actually made slots in the holder to do this, just not in the right place, grrr.

Picture showing screw going into amended hole. I was thinking of putting epoxy on the inside of the hole to back fill the gap to prevent the holder from shifting but all I did was tighten the screws down and the holder has never moved on me (12 months later, 2 hours a day nearly every day of the week).

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa442/Vet88/2014-02-22160832.jpg

Picture showing the 2 washers fitted under the inner front screw so that the screw clears the holder.

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa442/Vet88/2014-02-22160954.jpg

Honestly, it's not that hard and it took me about an hour to do once I had everything assembled. Do be careful when enlarging the holes and don't let the tool you use make contact with your boot. You could take the holder right off to work on it but I like to check frequently that the holes are still lining up as I go so the swing method was how I did it.

Also, when you hop back onto the ice the first time after the change it will feel really different. Don't give up at this stage, skate on it for at least 3 or 4 sessions so you get used to the different alignment of the holder and then make a change if you want to. Remember, you can always go back to the old position if you don't like it.

If you are moving the holder by more than 2mm you will run into issues with the front and rear inner screws making contact with the holder. Filing down the flange on the top of the screw will give you a little more room, also another washer or two will help but if you keep moving the holder you will eventually have to take to the holder and grind / file away a little section of the holder so the screw will fit correctly.

I hope this helps, let me know if you want any other pics or info.

That's an extensive right up! Thanks for all the info. I'll have no problem doing this myself. It seems quite simple. I was nervous that i would have to have the boot holes drilled to align the runner but this is a much more practical reason in the sense that if you mess up a runner is much cheap then a new pair of skates.

I'll post back here when I'm done. Hopefully on sunday I'll get around to doing it.

[marckubu 0]

If you can operate a drill and a file, you can do it yourself, it's not really that hard.

A 1/4" is a long way to move the holder, I have generally found a shift of 1mm - 2mm is enough but it all depends on your situation. I recommend you take it slow, adjust it by 1mm, go for a few skates and see how it feels. As you have been skating for 10 years you should pick the difference up quite quickly. I find the one footed S drill (like figure skaters do) will tell you quickly how the skate feels under your foot.

You will need:

torx head screwdriver, size 2.0

either an electric drill and drill bit the size of the holes in the holder or a very small rat tail file or a dremel

a flat file

5mm? washers (I think they are 5mm, I can't remember) in stainless steel or copper or brass.

Vice or vice grips (to hold the washers as you work on them)

First, see how the holders are mounted on the boots. I gather your right foot is ok? This may be because the holder on the right skate is mounted closer to the inside of the boot than the left skate. Generally both feet will have similar pronation issues and if it is working for your right foot then use this as a guide for your left (in my case I moved the right holder by 1mm as the left was perfect, a case where poor manufacturing on the left boot actually worked in my favour). If the holders are offset as I indicated, measure the offset difference between them from the inside edge of the boot to the inside edge of the holder, this is the distance you want shift the holder on the left boot.

If the holders aren't offset then just proceed as follows and shift the left holder by a mm at a time with plenty of skating between each change.

Remove all but the rear inner screw from the holder. Mark forward and sideways center lines on the screw holes of the holder, this is so you can track how far you have enlarged the hole and that it is going in the right direction. Swing the holder off the bottom of the boot and start working on the 4 front mounting holes. I used an electric drill and slid the drill bit up and down the inside of the hole. The edges of the shank will grind the plastic away. You need to enlarge the mounting holes on the inner side of the holder towards the center and the outside mounting holes towards the outside of the holder. As you work away on each hole, keep checking your work by swinging the holder back onto the boot and check that the hole still lines up with the boot.

You will see that all the holes will be easy to do except the inner front and inner rear. As you enlarge these 2 inwards, they begin to encroach on the holder and the screw will not have enough clearance to screw back in. This is where the washers come into play, file down one side of the washer (I filed a V in the ones is used for the front screw) so the washers fit around the base of the holder and you have enough washers underneath the screw head so it will screw in and be clear of the holder.

When the front 4 holes are finished and the holder is where you want it to be, put the inner front screw back in then remove the rear screw. Repeat the hole enlarging process on the 4 back holes checking the alignment as you go. Whereas for the front holes I moved the holder by 1.5mm, for the rear I only moved it by 1mm. The skate felt stable under my foot with that adjustment.

Once everything is finished, put all the screws back in and you are done.

Couple of photos to show what I mean.

Picture of a drilled hole in holder

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa442/Vet88/2014-02-22160752.jpg

It's ironic that Graf actually made slots in the holder to do this, just not in the right place, grrr.

Picture showing screw going into amended hole. I was thinking of putting epoxy on the inside of the hole to back fill the gap to prevent the holder from shifting but all I did was tighten the screws down and the holder has never moved on me (12 months later, 2 hours a day nearly every day of the week).

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa442/Vet88/2014-02-22160832.jpg

Picture showing the 2 washers fitted under the inner front screw so that the screw clears the holder.

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa442/Vet88/2014-02-22160954.jpg

Honestly, it's not that hard and it took me about an hour to do once I had everything assembled. Do be careful when enlarging the holes and don't let the tool you use make contact with your boot. You could take the holder right off to work on it but I like to check frequently that the holes are still lining up as I go so the swing method was how I did it.

Also, when you hop back onto the ice the first time after the change it will feel really different. Don't give up at this stage, skate on it for at least 3 or 4 sessions so you get used to the different alignment of the holder and then make a change if you want to. Remember, you can always go back to the old position if you don't like it.

If you are moving the holder by more than 2mm you will run into issues with the front and rear inner screws making contact with the holder. Filing down the flange on the top of the screw will give you a little more room, also another washer or two will help but if you keep moving the holder you will eventually have to take to the holder and grind / file away a little section of the holder so the screw will fit correctly.

I hope this helps, let me know if you want any other pics or info.

Just got done doing the mod to my left skate. Took me about 20 minutes. I'll test it out Friday and let you know. I traced an outline of the runner on the bottom of the boot just incase i want to go back to the original set up. Once again. Thanks!

[Vet88 674]

You may also want to check one or two other things with your grafs. Take the footbed out and check that all the staples ends are down flat (run your fingers over the top of the footbed), the tops of the screw holders are sitting flat (holes drilled at an angle cause them to sit crooked on the footbed) and that no screws are poking through. A hammer and suitable object such as a punch and a file will fix all of this. I take the holders off when working on things in the footbed.