Equipment Info Overload

[2nhockey 21]

I'm a new member hockey dad with 2 kids that just wrapped up their first seasons in hockey. My son is moving to Squirts and my daughter will be moving to varsity as a 7th grader. We are in a small town so girls especially will play up.

 

I have a ton of equipment questions now that the kids are hooked and will play next year (association provides all equipment for first year players), especially since my daughter will be playing up.

 

I'd like to start with sticks. I didn't know what to get or not get and the association provided her first stick, a wood CCM with Ovechkin curve. She broke that stick quickly, so I bought her another of the same thing. She broke that one as well. Desperate to get her back on the ice quickly I found a Warrior KGB Draper curve for sale at the rink. Bought the stick for $20. I had no idea if it was a good, bad, or indifferent stick but it got her on the ice, and got me researching sticks.

 

A friend of a friend who plays hockey at MN suggested a Warrior Dynasty Zetterberg curve, so I bought her an AX3 and moved the KGB to a back up role. She played from October through February with the Dynasty. I bought her a Graf G45 GP022 curve since she has outgrown the Dynasty and she now has time to experiment with sticks.

 

She's not feeling the love for the Graf stick. At all. I am not sure why. Thinking of going back to Warrior but don't know the difference between Dynasty, Covert, HD, LT, etc. Looking for all the help I can get understanding the differences in Warrior's sticks.

 

If it matters she plays defenseman and practices with her team 4 days a week plus special defenseman practice twice a week and only 1 game left (next weekend). Thanks for any help.

[cmflynn 16]

The difference between the Dynasty and Covert lines is that the Dynasty is a mid kick point stick and the Covert is a low kick point stick. The kick point is the place where the stick flexes when shooting or passing. Mid kick sticks flex between the hands, low kicks below it. While there are performance advantages to both (mid kicks can provide a bit more power whereas low kicks allow you to get your shot off a bit quicker) the deciding favor should be what they feel most comfortable using. I believe the Graf she's using is a low kick stick, but it's also a lower grade, heavier stick than the AX3, so it's kind of hard to know for sure if it's the kick point throwing her off or other factors. If budget permits, your best bet would be to get her a covert and dynasty that are both the same price point, curve, and flex rating and see which she prefers. Also, the HD and LT stand for heavy duty and light. Personally, I've had a covert Dt3lt I've used for over a year as my main stick that's held up great, so I wouldn't shy away from the LT models over durability concerns if she prefers a more lightweight stick

[Bbd94 26]

Couple reasons why she could not like the Graf compared to AX3, other than the obvious difference of curve:

• Graf is not cut at the same point on her body as the AX3
• Graf is a different kickpoint than the AX3. Graf G75 is a low kickpoint, AX3 is a mid kickpoint. Refer to above post
• Weight differences between the two. Some sticks are more blade heavy compared to others of the same weight.

Regarding the last point look at wooden sticks. My first composite was a Sherwood and it was about 600 grams, but felt much heavier than any wooden stick on the market. It was very blade heavy with no feel at all. I also hated the shaft grip and curve. There are so many differences between sticks it's hard to tell why you do or don't like them without a comparison. Kick-point doesn't have a definitive rule, like "if you take wrist-shots, you play with a low-kick stick like the Warrior QR1". I don't take any slapshots and use a mid-kick stick. It's whatever feels best for you.

If she liked the AX3 I would try the HD line. If you don't want to spend the money on the current lineup I've outlined the older models below:
 

3 hours ago, cmflynn said:

The difference between the Dynasty and Covert lines is that the Dynasty is a mid kick point stick and the Covert is a low kick point stick. The kick point is the place where the stick flexes when shooting or passing. Mid kick sticks flex between the hands, low kicks below it. While there are performance advantages to both (mid kicks can provide a bit more power whereas low kicks allow you to get your shot off a bit quicker) the deciding favor should be what they feel most comfortable using. I believe the Graf she's using is a low kick stick, but it's also a lower grade, heavier stick than the AX3, so it's kind of hard to know for sure if it's the kick point throwing her off or other factors. If budget permits, your best bet would be to get her a covert and dynasty that are both the same price point, curve, and flex rating and see which she prefers. Also, the HD and LT stand for heavy duty and light. Personally, I've had a covert Dt3lt I've used for over a year as my main stick that's held up great, so I wouldn't shy away from the LT models over durability concerns if she prefers a more lightweight stick

Everything is right here other than the bolded. I believe HD stands for the HyperDrive technology they use in the line. LT is more about the construction of the stick than the weight. IMO Warrior didn't do a good job explaining this. Way too complicated for the average player. In the older models:

Warrior LT:  Lighter than ST, but main point is it's a true one-piece stick. Extremely low kickpoint. 

Warrior ST: Heavier than LT, but main point is it's a high fused two piece construction. Higher kickpoint than LT, not a true mid-kickpoint

Warrior AXYSYM: True mid-kickpoint

 

[Vet88 674]

You say she has outgrown the Dynasty, you might want to consider buying a butt extension and getting the stick back into main use as the AX3 is a reasonable stick and relegating the Graf to a back up role. Is she using an intermediate or senior stick? And what flex? Depending on your budget have a look at online places like Hockey Monkey where they have earlier top end models at large discounts, for example they have intermediate AX1 or DT1 leftys in various 55 / 70 flex Burrows / Zetterberg curves (both similar curves in terms of face angle) cheaper than an AX3. And these sticks can have additional discounts apply like the Easter sale they will have coming up. Sadly I'm a righty otherwise I'd be buying up every one of those 70 flex sticks at these prices. 

[2nhockey 21]

Thanks for the explanations. I think I understand differences between Covert and Dynasty. So many variations within the lines so I really appreciate the breakdowns.

 

Looking at the Covert QR3 and Dynasty HD3. Would those 2 be of comparable quality? Would those 2 sticks make a fair fight for her to determine mid vs low kick suits her?

 

I'm not married to Warrior so definitely open to suggestions.

 

Vet- she's right handed, intermediate, and running 55 Flex. Her Warrior was cut to fit her perfectly at the start of the season by her coach. Now in her skates it is noticeably below her chin.

 

Bb - her new stick is a G45, not 75 so am assuming the discrepancy between the Graf and Warrior that you and Flynn point out would be even worse?

[Bbd94 26]

39 minutes ago, 2nhockey said:

Thanks for the explanations. I think I understand differences between Covert and Dynasty. So many variations within the lines so I really appreciate the breakdowns.

 

Looking at the Covert QR3 and Dynasty HD3. Would those 2 be of comparable quality? Would those 2 sticks make a fair fight for her to determine mid vs low kick suits her?

 

I'm not married to Warrior so definitely open to suggestions.

 

Vet- she's right handed, intermediate, and running 55 Flex. Her Warrior was cut to fit her perfectly at the start of the season by her coach. Now in her skates it is noticeably below her chin.

 

Bb - her new stick is a G45, not 75 so am assuming the discrepancy between the Graf and Warrior that you and Flynn point out would be even worse?

Yeah those are pretty comparable, but I would ask her first what she doesn't like about the stick (I'm assuming you've already done so but I'll just play dumb here). Is it too heavy? Is it the curve? Does it not feel comfortable in her hands? If so, why? Does she feel the stick is too stiff, too "whippy"?  This may allow you to get a better grasp on what she would like. Some Total Hockey stores allows you to test demo sticks in store, so that may be a cheaper alternative.  I don't know your financial situation but that's the price I went at when I was first figuring things out, around $140 USD. 

I would ask her what she likes/does not like and then try an extension on the AX1 first. If/when that breaks or if she doesn't like it, then go into the process you listed. I don't know how much she's grown and the flex is going to get lower when you add an extension, though. A lot of sticks will have a chart on the side that tells you the flex when cutting it down so just reverse it. The general consensus is about half your body weight but it's up to her what she likes. 

And I'm not knocking on Graf at all, but IMO Warrior is more readily available and has more variety to choose from. I think the AX3 is around 450 grams and the G45 is 490. My point is that you can't just go by the grams since sticks have different balance points. Sticks are going to feel different from brand to brand, as well as different models in a line. Even flex is different from stick to stick. A 74 flex in one stick may feel like an 85 in another. That's why you see guys on here still trying to find sticks that have long gone off the market, and when they do they buy them in bulk. Trial and error is the best way to find out what you like, but knowing what you don't like is also important too.

 

[Vet88 674]

8 hours ago, 2nhockey said:

Thanks for the explanations. I think I understand differences between Covert and Dynasty. So many variations within the lines so I really appreciate the breakdowns.

 

Looking at the Covert QR3 and Dynasty HD3. Would those 2 be of comparable quality? Would those 2 sticks make a fair fight for her to determine mid vs low kick suits her?

 

I'm not married to Warrior so definitely open to suggestions.

 

Vet- she's right handed, intermediate, and running 55 Flex. Her Warrior was cut to fit her perfectly at the start of the season by her coach. Now in her skates it is noticeably below her chin.

 

Bb - her new stick is a G45, not 75 so am assuming the discrepancy between the Graf and Warrior that you and Flynn point out would be even worse?

The HD3 is the replacement for the AX3, between that and the QR3 you have 2 well priced sticks for her to make a comparison with as to which type of kick point she really likes. 

However if you want to look at other brands then there are plenty out there. For example at HM (Hockey Monkey) there are some real goodies on sale at the moment -

The Bauer Nexus 8000 (true mid kick stick) intermediate is close in price to the QR3 yet is a much higher spec'd stick, and it's available in a 60 flex PM9 curve which would be the closest curve to the zetterberg she is using. For just a few more $'s you have the Supreme line where the MX3 with an amplified mid kick is also available in a 60 flex PM9 curve. Sadly HM don't have any really good Vapour sticks (low kick point) on sale, the apx and apx2 lines sold out quick.

Then from Easton HM have the CX stick (low kick point) in a 60 flex E36 curve.

 

Any of these are great sticks and I doubt she is going to hate getting her hands on any of them......

 

But, as long as the AX3 is still in good condition, then the best option you may have is buying her one of these:

http://www.hockeymonkey.com/6inlonshafbu.html

in a junior size and then adding some tape around the shaft so it sits firm in the stick and then cut it to length. You need a hot glue gun to put it in yourself otherwise your local hockey shop should be able to help.

 

Personally I've never been a fan of any Graf sticks (and I've tried most of them) and I suspect your daughter has worked this out for herself.

[2nhockey 21]

Appreciate the help guys. Wasn't aware I could extend the AX3, and it has been a great stick for her. So I will get the extension for it and then grab a Covert and let her sort it out. I think we'll sort out kick point before brand experiments. 

 

Lot of fun watching her learn and develop so much with the game. The Warrior was a very nice looking stick but D is really hard on a stick's finish, I have learned. The battles in front of the net and stick lifts and slashes on other sticks really beats the finish up!

 

I would've thought a 70 flex was a 70 flex across all makers. New to me that a stick rated at 70 could feel like an 80 and so on.

 

She didn't like the Graf's feel when sending and receiving passes and she hated shooting with it. Said the stick just felt dead. Both the Warrior and Graf are 55 flex. One of the things she mentioned about the shot was it took too much effort to loft the puck, which is counterintuitive because the Graf's face is so much more open than her Warrior. Perhaps that is a flex issue? The only thing she likes about the Graf is the color scheme! 

 

No hockey shop options here. Closest shop is 3 hours one way. We did make the trek there to buy skates based on recurring advice that came up on my many searches, but going there more often than once or twice a year is not happening. So I have got most things we need thru Hockey Monkey or Giant. New thread coming on protective - don't want to clutter this one. Thanks again for the help! Going to order the Covert when I get some protective help for that order. Shipping costs and all...