Lafleur blows off steam...

[Chadd 916]

What risk do the players offer into this? NOTHING! I think 42.5 was more than fair. The players gave up nothing. They have no chance of losing any money, the owners do.

I would have no problem watching all AHL players from now on, and all the guys in the NHL can go get a real job if they don't like 1.3 million.

I think if the NHL offered an average salary of 1 million, and said if you don't like you don't have to play, I think there would be no problem finding enough guys for good hockey.

As Bob McCown on the Fan said to Nick Kyprios, "You've never had a real job in your life. You have lost touch with reality"

Honestly, what you think is fair is entirely irrelevant to the process. It's pretty obvious you don't grasp most of the issues so debating you on this is pointless.

[McCabe#1 0]

I totally grasp every issue in this debate. Bottom line is, the players are not worth what they are getting paid. I'm not saying they aren't great at what they do, but the industry is not big enough, or profitable enough, to justify those salaries. And you can only be paid what your industry can handle.

[Eazy_b97 1]

and thats what the owners tell them they can afford?

[McCabe#1 0]

Look at the League! WHERE DO THEY GET REVENUE FROM? Half the arena's are half full, there is very little TV money, merchadise is the lowest of all sports. WHERE IS THE REVENUE?

[Chadd 916]

Half the arena's are half full

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?s...y_avg&year=2004

Any arguement you make that is not supported by facts really hurts your credibility

[Eazy_b97 1]

especially when Philly was the 2nd most profitable team behind Toronto last year and Edmonton made money. The only 2 teams which don't have numbers up there.

[McCabe#1 0]

Sorry to exaggerate a little, but those numbers still aren't very good...

[McCabe#1 0]

So you think the average Salary in the NHL should be hirer than the NFL's? Which I believe is at 1.3, at least I heard that this week. A league with HUGE Revenues.

[Chadd 916]

17,000 seats sold at an average of $75 over 41 home games is $52 million. That doesn't include advertising, local radio and TV, merchadise, parking or concession percentages.

$75 is probably even on the low side when you consider luxury suite prices.

Half the teams had more than 17k people and half had fewer.

[McCabe#1 0]

And that doesn't include Arena costs, non player employee costs, equipment costs, stick costs, travel costs, lodging costs, etc.

[Chadd 916]

So you think the average Salary in the NHL should be hirer than the NFL's?  Which I believe is at 1.3, at least I heard that this week.  A league with HUGE Revenues.

At first glance, that amount of money may seem a lot. When you factor in an average of 57 players on an NFL roster during the season, that amounts to a salary of around $1.18-million per player. Again, a lot of money -- however, each team usually has a few big-money players, like a star quarterback or running back. Let's suppose a team has two star players, each with a salary of $8-million per year. This cuts the cap room to $51.4-million for 55 players, cutting the average salary of the remaining players by $245,000 each.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question644.htm

[LegoDoom 0]

The biggest is accepting a salary capwhich was what actually started real negotiations. Because the NHL showed no sense of negotiations before that. It was their way or the highway. And that is not how CBA work. Both sides should have an equal influence.

I'm sorry, but this is just untrue. The NHL took out the linkage right before the deadline and the PA countered back with a high cap. Neither side was truly willing to give up their position and that was all a big PR move.

I'm just wondering why both sides should have an equal influence when one side is stating they're losing money and are the ones writing the checks.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Doesn't include advertising, concessions, parking, play-off games, game used sales or mechandise either.

[McCabe#1 0]

None of us are going to change our minds, and it doesn't matter what any of us think.

[Smith 0]

17,000 seats sold at an average of $75 over 41 home games is $52 million. That doesn't include advertising, local radio and TV, merchadise, parking or concession percentages.

$75 is probably even on the low side when you consider luxury suite prices.

Half the teams had more than 17k people and half had fewer.

If they are making so much money then why fight so hard? These owners all have made there money else where. Is it just to give the union the shaft? I don't think so. There has to be some real problems in there.

[LegoDoom 0]

So you think the average Salary in the NHL should be hirer than the NFL's?  Which I believe is at 1.3, at least I heard that this week.  A league with HUGE Revenues.

At first glance, that amount of money may seem a lot. When you factor in an average of 57 players on an NFL roster during the season, that amounts to a salary of around $1.18-million per player. Again, a lot of money -- however, each team usually has a few big-money players, like a star quarterback or running back. Let's suppose a team has two star players, each with a salary of $8-million per year. This cuts the cap room to $51.4-million for 55 players, cutting the average salary of the remaining players by $245,000 each.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question644.htm

I'm sorry Chadd, I just don't believe that. First, the league minimum is like $210k in the NFL. Secondly, even the star QBs and RBs rarely have an $8M salary. Since most contracts are backloaded and aren't guaranteed, those big salaries are rarely reached in the NFL. Most big salaries come from signing bonuses, which are spread over the life of the contract, or roster bonuses, which is a way to divert cap money to years when a team isn't in crisis.

[DrMolotov 0]

I am going to throw up if I hear the NHLPA mention partnership one more time, I don't see the players reaching into their pockets to pay a portion of the hotdog vendors salary. You want a partnership, then put your f&*^#&g money where your mouth is.

[LegoDoom 0]

17,000 seats sold at an average of $75 over 41 home games is $52 million. That doesn't include advertising, local radio and TV, merchadise, parking or concession percentages.

$75 is probably even on the low side when you consider luxury suite prices.

Half the teams had more than 17k people and half had fewer.

It also doesn't factor in stadium leases.

And how many seats are sold at a discount through season ticket packages? Don't forget that the team has blocks of tickets that are distributed internally, most of which are club box seats.

[Chadd 916]

I am going to throw up if I hear the NHLPA mention partnership one more time, I don't see the players reaching into their pockets to pay a portion of the hotdog vendors salary. You want a partnership, then put your f&*^#&g money where your mouth is.

Vendors don't work for the owners either. They work for the company that runs the concessions, like aramark. Generally the owners that do own those companies don't consider those profits to be hockey revenue.

[McCabe#1 0]

You listed concessions in your previous post as a revenue? So which is it???

[McCabe#1 0]

The players didn't make any sacrifices! The owners got rid of Linkage, which was THE MOST important part of this negotiation. Don't kid yourself and think it was the players offering a $49 million SOFT cap.

[Chadd 916]

You listed concessions in your previous post as a revenue? So which is it???

Most teams get a percentage of concessions during their events.

[Eazy_b97 1]

You listed concessions in your previous post as a revenue?  So which is it???

I listed it. They do make money off of programs and such, which heavily outweights the payper hour they get. Concession space is also bought, not given out, and they generally get a perecentage of the profit.

[LegoDoom 0]

I still think it is pretty clear what side wanted a season more and was more willing to make sacrifices for the foolish owners mistakes.

That doesn't make sense. Goodenow said that the only reason the cap deal was proposed was directly because the league took linkage out of the deal. I guess the owners don't get any credit for starting the most recent negotiations.

And what good does pointing finger to who was foolish and the reason we're at the point we are now? Wouldn't the correct thing be recognizing the past problems and fixing them? Why patch together a deal to save one season when the future of the game will again be jeopardized?

They need to get it right this time. $49M was simply too much.

[Chadd 916]

They need to get it right this time. $49M was simply too much.

There was room to fiddle with luxury tax amounts up to whatever hard cap they could agree to. The only reason there was no agreement is because the individuals had to make it about winning and not about finding common ground.