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You have already posted this concern ages ago and yet these rings are still in circulation? and since then they haven't come forward by publishing any comparative data on that on their website? Look, there are even some guys who have exclusively received these 40 sharpening rings in the "older packaging" to this date! Guess what, I prefer not to believe marketing departments, which in the end will always target a higher product popularity and more sales. These are the only guys/girls that have come forward publicly so far. We already know Sparx has sufficient marketing capacities! In order to improve the situation for myself and for future customers, they'll have to publish real data, as mentioned above, on their website! If proven wrong, I'll be happy to shut up and I'll hopefully be able to enjoy my purchase again.. For so long I prefer to remain skeptical and I'll expect an apology from them and to fully understand this situation given all the expenses we've had to face to get these highly convenient products! big promise... awaiting my answer via email now.

to keep this simple for you 1. a vastly differing number of sharpenings on the packaging may seem dubious for a non blind consumer that actually pays a lot of money for these rings 2. again and again... the total number of cycles has nothing to do with the amount of material a "newer" 60 sharpenings 1/2, 3/8...ring may be able to remove in one cycle vs. an "older" 40 sharpenings 1/2, 3/8,11/16, 5/8... ring therefore 40 vs 60 doable sharpenings are perfectly possible and I truly want this to be proofed with data.( you can switch "newer" and "older" around. choose for yourself. no one knows for sure) 3. All I want from them is to come out on their website and publish information on the fact that both variants are in circulation, and as I've already said, proof the fact that an "older production" 1/2 ring will yield the same number of sharpenings, under isolated conditions, compared to the "new" 1/2 ring. Additionally,it remains to be proven if it takes the same amount of cycles with the "newer production/new packaging" 1/2'' rings to reach the desired radius of hollow than with the lesser agressive 11/16,5/8...1 inch rings in the "old packaging". All of these tests have to be done under isolated conditions, using new identical blades. This would help us to make a qualified buying decision in the future. Maybe there are some differences maybe not? how can we know this as consumers? The goal here is that nobody has to feel like a piece of crap after spending 200$ including shipping on two of these rings just to find out that the stated number of sharpenings varies by 33% from ring to ring. that's it. As long as these things aren't published and proved, I'm awaiting a serious apology from their side. I just had to answer on that. no worries,I'll discuss the rest with Sparx directly.

It's a usage scenario! The results have to add up from ring to ring/profile to profile and therefore the number of sharpenings is much more valuable. How do I even control the outcome of my programmed cycle number given different skate blade conditions and all sort of parameters??? How do I know if an 11/16 profile gets perfectly done with the same number of cycles compared to an 1/2 ring which states a 33% increased number of average sharpenings. The documentation on that has to be consistent. You can't sell a product for the same amount of money, stating 20 less cycles and at the same time publishing contrary information on your packaging,online and telling people all is good it's just the packaging. That's all from my side. I'm not going to bother you guys anymore. I'll leave you with my main statement! How do these guys even think a customer will react when he opens his 2 piece 180€=200$ grinding stone delivery, just to find out both rings have a different stated lifespan???? For so long, I'm waiting for their official reply via email and depending on that I'm going to consider my options! Thanks guys so far and sorry for taking over here with my findings and concerns!

this is only a general statement on the usage scenarios!!!!! They are delivering products and a product packaging with different information on it just look at my pics! It's differing from ring to ring and neither published on their online ring selection, which states 60 sharpenings on every single option,nor anywhere else on their website, documentation whatsoever. To make matters worse you are getting your surprise as a consumer when opening the delivered package!

I guess because I refrain from insulting someone directly. I'm just making my user experience public .btw, thanks to you for supporting some of my concerns!

it would be a start. Carrying on as it is i hugely misleading and publishing this "information" on their website would at least lmprove this situation for the average consumer..I'm hoping for a positive reply as I'll not accept this.

whatever the number on the packaging. It's different from ring to ring, the changes are neither explained on their website nor in their documentation.As a consumer, I won't trust anything that works on the same microcode principal as any ordinary printer. There have been many lawsuits concerning microchips in printers and similar products over here in europe and the use of microchips in these products will always be dubious for consumers. As I've said, I'm willing to take this further. It doesn't matter which way they spin this. Even if the explanation with 60 sharpenings on the newer chips may seem more reasonable. The numbers are different and if true all these differing products are in circulation. How do these guys even think a customer will react when he opens his 2 piece 180€=200$ grinding stone delivery, just to find out both rings have a different stated lifespan???? I'll urge you to reconsider this fact and to make things right!

nothing against you but what they've written is no explanation in any sort or form. no one can prove this without knowing what's going on in the microcode. I could believe their explanation but I prefer not to because it's not plausible. The 11/16'' product is also a fairly new ring which was introduced later on! This makes no sense and if they won't provide a solution, I've also sent them an email, I'm going to challenge this!

thanks for replying here. First of all, I don't agree with anything said above. You are just explaining advertising changes or even possible product changes, that no consumer can follow or control in any sort or form. To add up on that, there's zero information on the shop part of your website. Why don't you guys clearly come out and post the corrected number of 60/40 average sharpenings on ALL of your rings. I just bought new rings and both of them state different numbers of average sharpenings 60 vs 40. That's all the info I can and will trust on! Why does my brand new 1/2'' ring come with 60 sharpenings on it compared to my brand new 11/16 rings 40 sharpenings, and don't tell me you have changed the packaging. Highly unlikely, that these are in the "old packaging" and even if so, as it stands these rings are sold with different lifespans from the moment of purchase. This is not acceptable and there's no possibility for me as a consumer to evaluate anything that you have said as it's implemented in your microchips and these "non changes" are not proven by comparative data. Therefore I prefer to be skeptical.Why don't you update or publish the numbers on your website backed by data??? and make your "results" publicly. I'm not buying this explanation.The differences on the packaging of my rings is all the info I can trust on as a consumer. I'm not aware of anything that's going on in the microcode of these printer like microchips. I'm looking forward to a positive solution to this or any form of compensation! Do you guys even know how much this machine and the supplies costs for your followers, who happen to be mainly individuals and not business customers, over here in europe? And how much effort, dedication and research it took to get this product over here, just to find out that we can't trust anything stated and that the rings are delivered with misleading information???. Get your stuff right guys and at least start selling the rings directly over here in europe. There's zero tax on sharpening rings and I'm willing to provide you with the customs tariff code TARIC which clearly provides this information. Additionally, you guys will have to deduct the US tax and apply the European tax. It's not some kind of witch craft. There've been many lawsuits over here in europe on printer like products using microchips and similar practices and I'm going to challenge this in every possible way and therefore I'm willing to use my rights as an european consumer! Who is ready to give up on 33% of the stated average usability depending on the ring! no one! except the affected products are exactly 33% cheaper. How do you guys even think a customer will react when he opens his 2 piece 180€=200$ grinding stone delivery, just to find out both rings have a different stated lifespan????  I'm urging you to reconsider this fact and to make things right!  Thanks! pic1 and pic2

This has nothing to do with the Prosharp. How would you feel as a customer if someone sells you a product that costs exactly the same, but t yields 33% less on average from the get go. And they don't even bother to inform you beforehand!!!You are kidding right? They sell these rings for 75 euro so there should be some degree of consistency. I'll upload the pics when I'm at home. This is unbelievable stuff and much worser than I thought it would be.. Guys please listen...I'm not moaning about different user scenarios here !!!! These are the officially stated numbers on the packaging which aren't published anywhere else and they are different from one ring to another! 1/2''= 60 sharpenings 11/16''= 40 sharpenings this is not published on their website!!!

I've just received my sharpening rings and there's a different number of sharpenings stated for these rings???? For some odd reason this is not stated on the Sparx website. Again...again that's poor transparency. I've ordered ES100 rings!!! I think that's really unacceptable. There's no information on the Sparx website that different rings will yield different number of sharpenings!!!! 40 vs 60 sharpenings. what's the defense on that??? I 'll provide pictures asap! rings are 1/2'' and 11/16''. Am I the only one who realized that???

I'm kind of in a similar position. Most of them are good friends but we have some guest players as well. beer's not gonna cover it, I've got that part so far😂. giving out sharpening cards seems like a good idea. I'll think about it. The thing is, if just one guy moves on and makes this public, I'm screwed. That's why charging people turns out to be a bit tricky. rates are around 8€/ 9-10$. basically the same but the quality is more than debatable^^.

Have you run out of range? #IPv4😂

no I'm basically the only guy who doesn't have to bring beer every few weeks of hockey. Has some advantages too😂 but to be honest, I wasn't planning on sharpening their kids skates....😥

it is what it is.nothing I can do about it. They are not really customers and that's part of the problem I guess^^. so let's hope they all stick with the quality of Sparx sharpenings and don't go to the local ski service center which happens to be a hockey service center as well:-D. All I can hope for is that they at least pay me a few beer for my expenses🤣. Anyway let's see how things turn out with my other grinding rings. btw: shipping included I'm paying 95$ per ring . Let it be guys:-) P.S. I wasn't the one who got politically butthurt in the first place because of poor wording or using the word in a non political context. .@Giltis @IPv6Freely

show me one guy who sharpens all his teammates skates and gets 95 skate sharpenings out of his first grinding ring. maybe it will get better with my 2nd ring. who knows. If that's the case, I'll probably shut up😂 btw I'm not running a business so I don't charge for sharpening their skates. I'm only getting payed in beer... Sharpening 40, 60, whatever different pair of skates using your first grinding ring is "fake news". As soon as you are introducing any variables you aren't going to reach that mileage. sorry for hurting some liberal feelings.

I really don't care colins. I love my Sparx machine and I can clearly see the benefit for a home-user!!! I just don't love the costs and the fact that they are taking away features yet charging more and more for the sharpening rings!!! All i wanted to do is to find a way to bring costs down for international users by taking a look at the different consumer/ commercial rings and by pointing out to other customers that sharpenings come around 3,2$ in europe given the quality of sharpenings locally and the amount of cycles you have to do to work things out. (80$ rings!!!!) The results so far are 25 sharpenings of poorly maintained skates and that's a fact. Basically every skate, except my own pair of new skates, caused an unbearable noise while sharpening. To get rid of that, it took 5-8 cycles per skate=10-16 cyles per pair!!!! All I wanted to point out above was that Sparx promises a grinding ring mileage that works nicely under isolated conditions. That's all. If you are using the machine for yourself, it's the greatest thing ever, but as soon as there are any variables introduced it's economically unsustainable for international buyers. that's all from my side

Please forgive me for pointing out that getting 40 good sharpenings out of these rings is not likely, given all sorts of skate blades and blade wear.... 40 sharpenings are not an average. As of now, that's an idealized advertising bs number for a single user scenario ... really intrigued to see the results after using my second ring.

Hi Mark, thanks for the heads up. And yes, if someone cares about his edges, which unfortunately doesn't seem to be the case in my area, 4 cycles will be enough. I've also got the feeling that most of these skates have been sharpened unevenly before. We basically have two shops in our area and they are doing a horrible job😉. Anyway, the results that I've seen so far are pretty obvious and in this case, I'll have to stick with my statement. Let's hope I'll see better results with the second ring

If we are trying to nitpick on the personal use parameters you may be right. Nevertheless, you will never ever reach 40 sharpenings while sharpening various skates not owned by yourself. It's simply not possible, to reach that number with one main ring and given all the different blade conditions. Sharpening for various people who don't give a f*** about ring usage will yield 25-30 pair of decently sharpened skates at most. I've just realized, sharpening one pair of skates cost me 3,20$ given the 80$ price tag in europe.😪

which ROH ring do you guys recommend for getting rid of nicks and especially massively uneven edges? Do you guys prefer using a deeper hollow like 3/8'' or a shallower one 3/4'' and would you recommend a ROH ring or are Fire ring for that purpose?

Quick update guys. I've just finished my first grinding ring which lasted for 25 pair of skates including junior skates with heavy nicks, and senior skates with massively uneven edges. i've basically sharpened all of my teammates skates an their kids skates. Getting 40 pair of skates out of one sharpening ring is only reachable if you're exclusively sharpening your own skates by basically maintaining them every 2-3 hours of skating. As soon as you are sharpening other guys skates, that are not carefully maintained, getting 40 sharpenings out of one ring is fake news IMO!!! Given the costs of 80$ for a sharpening ring, it definitely seems unreasonable to obtain the machine as an European customer. Sparx will have to come forward by adapting the pricing for grinding rings over here and by distributing the grinding rings directly to their european customers. just my two cents

thanks collins for posting the videos, The first video which explains how they care about tight tolerances during the manufacturing process basically made me buy the machine:-) That's why i was surprised to see such differences after all. Very well it could be the manual sharpening which was off.it just took me more than 4 passes on flat skates to reach a similar result.

I know the liability differences thanks. and I'm not angry at you. I got it wrong the first time. We just wont agree on this specific issue. the steps mentioned by you are exactly the right approach. change the documentation and push for regular air filter swaps. but this is not the common approach these days, as we know... although a minor thing, unfortunately it triggered me because it's just adding up to the other issues that I've pointed out.

unfortunately not. The cut depth is what puts me off. compared to manual 1/2'' sharpenings it's a lot less prominent.