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well ok it may not be false advertising which sounds a bit harsh. The explanation for removing this feature, although added later on, is still a total joke. All you had to do is to vaccum your skate tray more often .. and in the meantime it became the main feature of the commercial version ... come on.. this doesn't take a lot of creativity. all is good and sorry to you but we won't agree on that;-)

it's not very nicely detailed in my view. There's no comparison in terms of costs,durability and (as you pointed out not possible) cross usability of grinding rings between both plattforms which is a major factor when buying a sharpening machine Edit sorry to you..., got it the wrong way.. I'm just not fully happy with the cost/usability factor for myself atm in europe. and for the love of.... I can't get the right depth of hollow with just 2 or 3 cycles on averagely used blades which drives me nuts when paying 80$ for sharpening rings:-)

well no it's not the theme....but thanks for telling me. I'm just trying to figure out the real differences because the Sparx marketing is great but they are leaving consumers in the dark in terms of the functionality and quality of sharpenings with their PS100 commercial units. How should we make a qualified buying decision when there's quite a lot of intransparency and little possibility to compare both consumer/commercial products? They are posting NHL teams using these machines but it's extremely difficult for the average user to get any information on the real technical and monetary differences like how much are the grinding rings, are they made out of the same materials, how many cycles are possible with both versions.... And to add up on my main issue which is pricing across europe, It's not my fault that their resellers are messing with Sparx and are implementing an unfair price policy across europe while revealing non public information on both consumer and commercial rings . It's also not my fault that I'm a bit of a tinkerer who wants to find out if he may be able to pay 75$ instead of 80$ for sharpening stones in europe. And lastly, I do think removing the cross grinding functionality is a business decision and not primarily a safety decision which is a f* you in the face of everyone who got early involved with Sparx or interested in the machine... Nevertheless, I'm happy with the machine itself although I feel getting the right depth of cut requires more than 4 cycles and this drives sharpening costs higher. All these issues have to be considered when buying the machine all over the world. It's especially bitter for those buying the machine fully believing it still has the cross grinding capability. My goal is just to make things better and more transparent for future international buyers!

just another input. If true, by segmenting the market they may have had to offer something exclusively for their commercial users.Marginally reduced ring pricing wasn't enough so they decided to take away the cross grinding capability on ES 100 units. Highly unlikely to remove the cross grinding feature just because some guys refused to change the air filter... Removing a main feature, basically is a contractual breach especially to the disadvantage of early adopters. just saying... may be relevant to some of you.

I think that may be the right approach😜. Good to know that the rings most likely have RFID chips. Maybe we are able to somehow read out the code and make PS radius rings and XG rings compatible with the ES100 unit by implementing our own code. Wishful thinking atm... But who knows maybe we can work something out. Thanks again to you guys for your input!

As it looks, the margin on consumer and commercial rings is 10% at most. It would only make sense if there's a difference in the total number of doable cycles or the quality of sharpenings which hopefully isn't the case. I really hope your implications are right and they aren't delivering a completely different product... Anyway, thanks to all of you for your help! I'm going to order the consumer rings for now while trying to dig deeper on the firmware side of things:-) I'm a tinkerer can't help myself:-)

I completely agree. Having the marker removed may not necessarily mean that you've reached the desired depth appropriate for the chosen radius ring. It just means that you are removing the painted "layer"

Hi SkateWorksPNW!, thanks to both of you for doing that! You guys really helped me a lot... I was on the verge of ordering ES100 and PS100 rings for testing purposes today. Anyway, I'm really curious now why they are strictly separating the rings on a firmware level... really thinking about digging deeper into it. Do they look any different? According to the video posted above it looks like both rings are capable of sharpening 40 pair of skates, so why ban them from being used on both machines when they deliver the same sharpening results?

I believe so too. They changed the looks of the cross grinding rings quite a bit. The original cross grinding rings had "cross grinding" written on them. The newer PS100 have "XG" written and the colour scheme changed. I don't believe the PS100 commercial "XG" cross grinding rings are compatible with the ES100. Would be interesting to know if the radius rings are interchangeable at least. We'll find out...

hey guys I'm going to order the ES rings and PS rings tomorrow for testing purposes. I'm also going to try to decompile the code on the rings. I'm a bit triggered now... Does anyone know if the PS100 rings will last for more cycles compared to the ES100 rings? Would save me some work! Thanks! Edit: ok I've found something! looks like both versions are limited to around 320 cycles. I've found the packaging of the commercial rings which states 40 skate pair sharpenings as well. Let's try if they are compatible!:-) commercial vs. consumer rings @ 2min 32sec As it stands the packaging for the commercial version just seems a bit rougher. Don't think there's a difference atm! I'll keep you guys updated!

true story. In my case, I hope the machine is going to last at least for 3 years of team use:D

yes indeed:-) and then they are selling the rings for 80$ and you are left wondering whether or not your able to save at least 5 bucks per ring by buying the so called "PS100 grinding rings"😋

hey vet88 thanks for the idea. I've already considered it while buying the sharpener and it really saved me a few bucks. I just don't want to go through the whole process everytime I'm running out of grinding rings. The pricing for the PS100 rings is about 6$ less on the monkeysports.eu website which would be acceptable given the additional sales tax of 20% and the costs of shipping to europe. I just can't find any information anywhere on custom grinding rings specifically made for the PS100 machine. To me it looks like the reseller tries to establish two price policies for potential consumer and business orders. https://www.monkeysports.eu/sparx-60/sparx-ps100-radius-ring https://www.monkeysports.eu/sparx-60/sparx-es100-radius-ring Don't get me wrong guys this is not really about a few bucks. It's about resellers messing with customers and Sparx officially telling me that these rings aren't compatible with the consumer ES100 unit, although there's no indication on the Sparx website for it. Maybe I'm on to something here... If that turns out to be true, maybe there's also a difference in the number of doable cycles or the mileage between consumer and business grinding rings?😱 One thing is for sure, I'm curious now.

here are the two links by the way. For some odd reason it seems like they are selling different rings for the ES100 and PS100 machines? https://www.monkeysports.eu/sparx-60/sparx-es100-radius-ring https://www.monkeysports.eu/sparx-60/sparx-ps100-radius-ring

thanks for the sharpie trick!.yes the german shop doesn't add the VAT tax rate that's why they are cheaper. During the order process it will be added unfortunately. same 80$ price...

thanks stick really appreciate the fact that 1 or 2 passes after every few hours of ice time yielded good results. Some of my teammates refuse to sharpen their skates for half the season:-) that's why I had to use 8 cycles in order to rebuild the hollow on most of their skates. Also good to know that 4 passes will be enough when changing the radius of hollow.👍 The manual states something like 10 passes...

yes it's hockeymonkey.eu and hps-sport-shop.de. Don't get my wrong guys I love the Sparx. I'm just a bit fed up with the resellers due to the fact that they for sure get favorable pricing from Sparx and all they have to pay is their local sales tax. I've even imported the Sparx machine myself and there's basically no customs fee or tax on the sharpener (1,7%) and on the sharpening stones(0%). The high shipping costs for consumers, which of course are a given thing, are making it tough for me to order the rings directly from Sparx Hockey. I do really hope Sparx will someday establish their own facility in Europe because the product is excellent and the whole team seems to be focused on making good skate sharpening available for everyone. As it stands, I do believe going the reseller route won't help them in the long term especially concerning accessories and spare parts like grinding rings:-) Anyway, let's see the positive side of it , I now have even edges:D Can you guys confirm that the PS grinding rings are working in the ES100 unit? happy new year and thanks a lot!

thanks Leif. happy new year to you as well!^^ Don't get me wrong I'm really happy with the the Sparx machine, it solves so many problems with uneven edges and inconsistencies regarding the radius of hollow. I also understand that that the costs for the machine are higher over here. But 80$ for the sharpening ring has become personal to me and my teammates... that's why I'm trying to find out whether or not I can use the very similarly looking PS100 Grinding rings on the ES100 machine.

thanks a lot for your help SkateWorksPNW! It's good to know that you only need 1-2 passes on average. Your infos are really interesting because the Sparx support told me PS100 rings aren't compatible with the ES100 machine. Anyways, most importantly for me is to make sure that the PS100 standard rings are compatible with the ES100 unit. Are you really sure about that? I'm just curious because the Sparx team have already answered my email and told me otherwise..... given the similarities in both units I kinda trust your answer more:-) Regarding the XG rings hopefully they didn't update their firmware:-). I'm really only doing this because prices for the rings are really overpriced over here. At least, I was able to import the unit for 200 dollars less than what the actual reseller is asking. If anyone with a new Sparx ES100 unit has any further experience with the XG rings I'm glad to hear about it:-) Nevertheless, the performance of the machine is incredible and far superior than any sharpening from a local shop. Most of them only know how to sharpen ski edges anyway:-) My advice to Sparx would be to skip the resellers in Europe. As it stands, they are diminishing the potential of the Sparx product over here in Europe and only a few crazy people including myself are willing to pay 1500$ + 80$ per ring for the sharpener...

Hi guys, first of all happy new year to all of you and thanks for letting me contribute to this forum! I've just received my Sparx sharpener and I'm really happy with it. You guys have already helped me a lot in making my final buying decision and apart from the costs of usage I'm really happy with it. In the last few days, my friends and I have sharpened about 10 pair of skates and so far our grinding ring usage is pretty high. On average it's around 8x2 cyles per pair. Unfortunately, the availability of grinding rings is quite limited in my area and the costs of shipping are high. Costs per grinding ring in Europe are around 80$=73€ and shipping adds another 15$.... My question now is, is it somehow possible to use the PS100 grinding rings and XG Cross grinding rings on the the ES100 machine? I'm asking this because for some odd reason the availability of PS100 grinding rings is far better at the moment than for ES 100 consumer version, and it would also save me around 5$ per ring. PS100 XG Cross Grinding rings are also available from this dealer... and I know the story some guys refused to clean the air filter so Sparx decided to stop producing them for the ES100 machines..... And secondly, as a long time follower, I've read that most of you guys had great success with sharpening 5 cycles. In your experience, how many cycles does it take to sharpen skates with completely flat hollows? At the moment it looks like one sharpening ring will last for 20 sharpenings of worn down blades at maximum...given the costs of 1300$ for the machine alone this is not really sustainable for a beer league team.... Thanks guys!