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raganblink

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Posts posted by raganblink

  1. Posted · Report reply

    To not totally derail this thread either;

    I'm at lunch and on my way back to work at 130, literally no hockey going on anywhere until like 6... as I pull up I see a guy who I don't recognize but who has local plates walk out pissed and drives away. I walk in and see my boss on the phone talking to our biggest client (I recognized his voice). 3 minutes later he is done with his call and I ask why was that guy pissed? Apparently, he came in about 3 minutes before I got there and he was already on the phone, he put our client on hold for about 15 seconds and told the guy that it might be 5-10 minutes (because he knew I was coming back) for the skates he has to be sharpened... then he just said "that's ridiculous, I'm leaving", and just left.

    Now I'm not the kind of guy who wants to call people names, especially people who put money to my paycheck, but, who the hell would think if you bring skates in for sharpening, that it might take less than 5 minutes for them to get done?!?! If there was another pair in front of him, or we were helping someone with a product, theres no way we could have him in and out under 5. Just blows my mind how people can get pissed if they have to wait a bit for a service. And if you're in a hurry to get back to work or whatever, leave earlier, or just drop them off and pick them up. Don't have to be a dick about it! Ha!

  2. Posted · Report reply

    "order the right amount by forecasting demand and looking at previous sales data. I don't know if many shops do that but if you can keep just enough inventory then you won't lose too much. "

    That's what a smart LHS does - Looks at previous years statements, and you order that same Qty that you sold last period. I'm not quite sure how others do it, but that's what we do. The second gear gets put on closeout, we drop price as well to get rid of the product. And products that we know are going to expire (like current Stealth series sticks) we would push more than the EQ series, so we're not losing out on the current stealth sticks.

    Why should we need to offer things online retailers don't? We offer trying the product on before you buy, getting the product that instant, and keeping your money local. What we started doing is offering some free sharpenings for skates, I know some shops that have free sharpening for life of skate if you purchased them there. The issue is that people assume that online is cheaper, which even if it is cheaper by 5%, that shouldn't be a factor imo. You're paying for service and trying the product on etc. HM for instance prices everything at a "regular price" at 20% higher than MAP - no one has their product that high, or if they do, might not be in business much longer. But that gives people a sense that the HM price they see is such a great deal, even though it really isn't. Its MAP.

    As for your second paragraph, from experience, that product will move eventually, at cost or even slightly below it. There are plenty of people who will only buy closeout gear, because they are too cheap to buy a lesser model when it is available, and just wait and wait before they get lowered in price before they get them so they can get a higher model. For instance there was a Dad who came in around October getting new gloves for his kid. his kid really needs gloves, he's in a 10 and needs a 12 in the same series. He's been coming in about once a month for sharpening etc and always looks at gloves, and always asks when they are going to go on closeout. Always same answer, March/Aprilish for the models that are being discontinued. Guess what, we don't have anymore models that are being discontinued in his kids size. So instead of getting the 8K glove for his kid from us, if he doesn't go get them online, he's going to have to settle getting x30s or something lower end. I understand why people want discounted gear, I don't hold it against anybody, I'd want a 600 dollar skate for 400, too. But, the issue that is starting to becoming more and more prominent imo is people who want that topend gear, buy are only willing to pay mid-high for it. Instead of getting that mid-high gear, that high-end will sit for a while and then they'll grab it when it gets lowered in price. People want the land rover but are only willing to pay for a ford escape.

    And to get back to the point you make about "if someone buys a certain amount of $$$ in gear, offer an old s17 as a raffle prize. You would be surprised how doing this helps retain customers and spreads good word about your business and gives you an edge over big box retailers. ", personally I wouldn't want to be known as the place that has the old gear and gives that stuff away. I'd rather give away my customers a widow over a kronik.

    -----

    After discussing this with another local retailer (shoes) they mentioned that some of their companies have MSRP and MAP at the same price, and print that price on the box/tag for the item. I just bought some track shoes for 130 from them; thats the price online, the price at scheels, the price printed on the box from the company, and the price anywhere I could find. How then could this little local retailer compete against those people? Markup is ridiculous on the product for them, so they can afford to have 4 people working at once in a storefront that is smaller than ours, and according to them, they did the same $ amount as we did last season.

    So why don't the hockey companies do the same thing? Increase that profit margin from 30% to 33-40% from wholesale, and enforce a strict pricing policy for all product low to top end that keeps the current prices as they are now? Hell you can keep it at 30% actually, that's not really the issue, any place should be able to keep the doors open on that profit margin. Just having gear the same price everywhere would help out so much. This would work out tremendously well for the shop owners and the consumer as well. For places like Twin Cities, where there is such a pricing war between the LHSs to get business, they have items that are undercut quite a bit from MAP, so that they can actually move the product, so they aren't stuck with it, or labeled the place of expensive gear etc. In an area like that, or anywhere really where it is competitive, it would level the playing field, so really, the only way people would come to your place of business is if you excelled at sharpening (possibly allowing sharpeners that are great at it to get paid more :D ), offered like a rewards membership or w/e, and location/convenience. Not price wars over themselves and the internet to get business.

    Another rant thing - I'd love to see exclusive products offered by HM/GM, at a higher price than MAP on that product. I'm sorry but I gotta be honest, the navy/baby blue bauer goal chest protectors they have are way cooler than the stock ones. If I was a goalie, I would get those over the stock ones. Shit like that to me needs to be more money, so that we can sell what we have instock at the same price. But we've had 3 goalies this year so far go get those instead of the stock because of what it looks like, and that its the same price.

  3. Posted · Report reply

    We do same way. Just its a process that is hit or miss that can't always be perfect.

    Actually just remember something, ping in the golf industry goes around with secret shoppers enforcing prices... could bauer etc do the same? Set prices at 35% instead of current 30%, and do their part to make sure everyone is selling at that price. Thus forcing lhs to be at that price, and making price really an irrelevant aspect in consumers decisions. Make service and locality the main focus point, which it should be

    What would be best, if there was a universal MAP, that everybody had to adhere to, online or in store. Or like you said, raise MAP to 50%, which would allow the LHS's to make 35 or 40 points. Can you imagine the cheapest youth skates going for $70 bucks online and $55 in the store. Even the playing field. Planned discounts, so everybody discounts the item on the same day for the same % or $$. It will never happen.

    One way I battle closeouts, is now we know that a new pair of skates comes out every two years. I book a volume of new skates that first year, and sit on it till the newer ones come out two years later. I'll order any sizes I need as I need them. I do this with everything, sticks, protective, gloves. Only helmets tend to have a life span more than two years.

    I have never charged anybody the fee yet (a year after posting the sign), and our "wrestling matches" with time wasters has been cut to almost nothing, while we still sell a ton of skates.

  4. Posted · Report reply

    What's the underlining issue here though? Too many shops in an area, therefore too much gear in an area? Internet accessibility? Or combination of both or just one based on your location and circumstance? Something I'm missing?

    Personally, our issue is Twin Cities shops (4 hours away) and the internet. Despite for our size having a good selection (imo) people still choose to go up to Giant or w/e for their 'selection', or use us for sizing and then order online. Since a majority of the issue was online, we made it a goal to mention the hell out of that after shipping/handling etc we're the same price as the net. Previous seasons we would see literally half the business go out the door, because they'd go home and get it online... even if we were cheaper, because they assumed we were more expensive.

    That other half that did purchase from us, understood, that they'd shop from us even if we were 10% higher, even 15% or so, price really wasn't the issue - because the realized that if they don't buy gear from us, then we'll go bye bye, and then they wouldn't have a place to try on the gear before they bought it, unless they drove 4 hours away.

    One great thing that happened this year is a customer from a town 2 hours away, whose shop closed last season came down and was in the store the same time this local was in there - we had literally 600 sticks in stock, and he was bitching about selection. The guy from out of town mentioned out of the blue how great we were - at least we were here and had options for the sticks, different models, curves, flexes. Great moment, which we coulda recorded that and have it on constant replay.

    I feel for you guys in areas that have big chains move into the area, or spread their locale. Give it 5 years and personally I can see a situation where the major markets are all controlled by bigbox stores, which really is almost happening. Quite a bit are already controlled by major retailers. But its creating a situation where literally those top 5 retailers in the US (HM, HG, TH, PH and Peranis?) control the top 40 markets, and force the little retailers out of business, because the people in those smaller markets go to the bigger markets for that 'pricing and selection'.

    But anyways, is the issue the fact that the companies give out discounts for higher booking values, or that MAP is at a low % that it forces LHS to make less % on product? Or just too much turnover of product? I'd personally rather see Suggested LHS pricing at 35% instead of MAP at 30%, and have internet MAP at 40%. Kinda bullshit to those big guys, but the reason they are in business and raping regions and closing smaller places is because of the availability to have product at MAP, and get it at such a big discount that they can afford to sit on it for a long time, because literally they are making on some product the cost of 2 of that product, so if they sell one they just bought two. If they order 100 of that item, and by the time they sold that 50th of that item, they've bought their whole stock, and the rest of that is essentially pure profit. For instance, on x60 skates, HM had to have a half million in stock (cost). They have them right now for 400, they are still making about 50 bucks on those (if not more), so all the skates they sold at fullprice, they made bank off of. And the skates they are selling on closeout right now, are taking away the sales of local shops who can't afford to put them at 400, or who have the new models in and can't sell those because people are going to HM to get last year's product.

    Could it be an issue where possibly that they need to continue to enforce MAP pricing for one year after it currently is dropped? That would mean that one95s right now would be dropped from that 650 down to like 400 or whatever. x60 would be dropped next year at this time. That means though that the local guys can get rid of their entire stock well before (3 years total for product then, instead of the current 2) the internet drops their prices. It would also help in sales IMO. Like if we had one95s in stock and one100s instock, at the same price, people will go for the one100 (typically, most would that's not the issue im trying to debate). But if i need to take 10% off or w/e the one95s to sell those, I will. That way I can get rid of my stock of one95s well before the internet does, thus saving money. Like this year, we wanted to get a full stock of x60s back in during september... we could have used it and sold quite a bit more, but we didn't, because we couldn't afford the risk of getting another stock in. If we coulda got 15-20 pairs in and didn't sell most of them, we'd pretty much be SOL, and break even on 5 grand worth of skates. Can't do that. But if we had another year to sell those remaining pairs, we could sell all of them at 500-550. IDK, just an idea to toss around.

  5. Posted · Report reply

    You are now aware most lhs that have a fitting fee don't charge if the customer can't find the skate. Example, someone comes in looking at 300 to spend. One70, x40, 8k, u10 don't fit but s12 does... he needs a normal not wide in that size, or, they have his size in s17 not s12 and that works... we don't have a fitting fee, but if we did, we wouldn't charge.

  6. Posted · Report reply

    I'd go to another LHS, get fitted, and buy there. I wouldn't agree to pay $25 to find out what fits, what's available, and if the staff knows its stuff.

    Most places that have these policies do it just for people like you - people that would actually go to LHS A, spend their time and get fitted etc, then go to LHS B or online to buy them, then have them serviced at LHS A.

    Personally we don't have a fitting fee - Just mention to the customer that the initial sharpen and every bake is expensive as hell if you didn't get them from us, and its included in the price if you get it from us.

    Its to help our profit margin - having customers come in going "well hockeymonkey has this skate at 189.99.... why are you 204.99?" "well, to get it from there you're looking at 15 to ship, so you're total would be 205... plus 30 bucks in sharpening and bake you're looking at 235. If you get it from us, its 205 + tax so 218, and sharpening and bake is included in price".

    It works, helps alot. Technically still lower than online, but we've found out 15 bucks is about the highest people want to go "up" from MAP pricing. We don't have a LHS competition so its really us and online, hence no service fee. Too many LHSs are getting burned having someone come in, spend time on them, and having them not buy anything from them. While that time could have been spent helping another customer who would have ended up buying something. Competition for the LHS market, especially the ma and pa ones that have 3-4 employees, is quite tough. There's a reason you're seeing LHSs close left and right, and bigboys open left and right... Its creating an ever tough environment that is forcing quite a bit of people to close. Because shit has to be price matched - personal service IMO should be apart of the fee with a skate.

  10. Posted · Report reply

    Another goodie,

    Had a dad who comes in for skate sharpenings weekly, returned a cage, their kid plays high school hockey (senior) and literally got 5% of his gear from us, they got it from another hockey shop (now closed) or online except for some gloves and his latest stick (another very long story... tried to exchange broken one from online with one we have in shop).

    So I return the cage and charged our restocking fee (6%). It was 2.10 that they didn't get back on the cage. Dad was cool with it. He had sharpenings so he just paid with his sharpenings with the money he was getting back.

    I get a call from the Mom, who went complete apeshit on me it wasn't funny. Apparently a restocking fee is ridiculous, and that she's never heard of such a thing, and that the other shop that is now closed never had one. I tried to explain why it is there - fee for credit card, don't make a final sale, now have to repackage cage to look like others which costs man hours. This is illogical to her because a restocking fee is 'fucking stupid, you're just trying to scam us', so she told me she was just going to buy all of her stuff online... They have a restocking fee (that is higher %) & you have to pay to ship it back usually.

    I'm still in amazement. Oh and the reason the kid wanted to return it (bought it day before Christmas...now is just returning it) is because he wanted white, not gunmetal. Problem is right now they don't make a bauer truvision in white. Makes me smile :)

  13. Posted · Report reply

    Hey LHS guys, can you help me out on this one?

    Where do you buy the gridwall in the background?

    http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9916/gridwall.png

    Double bared? We don't care about the width or height of the bars, just need to fill an 8X8 section with double bared gridwall.

    Any help in the right direction would be most appreciated.

    And things customers do rant -

    Come in 5 minutes before close with their buds, then there buds go to their cars to get skates to sharpen, so we get to leave 20 minutes late.

  17. Posted · Report reply

    DS, its already 30 for bake/sharpen. Fair imo.

    JK, like Gunzo's in chicago, they'll hold onto everything without much discount, they know eventually, someone will comein and pay that price for that item. But on vapor goalie skates, unless they are 30s, I don't really see anyone not paying more than 100 bucks for them. It's smart business, if they can afford to do so, to hold onto that gear and get what they want out of it. Problem is most of us can't afford to do so, or, just dont want to dick around having that extra stock.

    I'm sure if someone still had a stock of 30s or 40s, that someone would pay 450-500 bucks for a brand new pair. If people find something that is perfect for them, and they hate the improvements of the newer equipment (ala pro's preference to the same equipment, like helmets and all those repainted skates and sticks) that they'll find that gear, and pay whatever they think would be reasonable for it.

  18. Posted · Report reply

    Background info... we literally have 12 pairs of vapor skates left, most being x05s in junior and youth.3 in senior, and the only pair that isn't a 11.5/12 is a 9.5 x60... were basically out of stock.

    dad came in earlier today looking for vapors for his son. Exact words. he doesn't know the model, so I ask well how much were you thinking of spending. He says he wants to spend about 400. I say okay, and ask for size. He said his kid is in a 9 now but his kid says he needs to go up a size. I'm thinking perfect, I can get rid of these 60s finally. So I tell him we can knock down the 60s to 450, the price of the 50s. He says he wont spend that much. so I shoe him the u12s, which are 400. He won't get them bc they aren't vapors. So then he asks me to show him vapors in that size 9.5. I tell him that's all we have. He starts bitching us out and saying we don't understand how to run a business correctly. I explain there are new ones coming in April, but apparently, its stupid not to get rid of your stock before you have to sell them at cost or below it.... after blowing him off and saying if he had any questions just ask me, so 15 minutes later he asks me if I could order him x40s. So I look at bauerbiz and they had that size in stock, and he agrees to pay for it 320... stupid imo not to get the 60s but that's not the point. He says well, if these aren't here before Christmas I get a full refund and I'm not buying those skates. I tell him I can't guarantee delivery date, so what he does is just say f it, ill get them online since you guys can't promise they'll be here by Christmas, and that he's surprised we can stay in business not carrying vapors. Gotta love idiots. They really do make my day.

  19. Posted · Report reply

    Raganblink, after reading your post, I just had a question. So is me going to 2 different local shops wrong? I'm loyal to both of them, and I've never done anything like try one of their products on in "store A" and buy it in "store B". Same with sharpening or maintenance for whatever piece I have. If I need to fix it, I bring it to the store I bought it. The only time that I've actually brought a product I never bought from them is an X:60 off recall to get a plug. Am I doing anything wrong or that might annoy them? Or would any of you shop owners consider this annoying or wrong?

    Not at all. Depends on the context though. Imo its a pretty crummy thing to fit, learn from, and spend time at place a, then go buy at place b bc you like them more. But really, you either will go to one shop or the other. One is either the closest, or it is more friendly, better priced, whatev. I know very very few people in my town that would shop at both our lhs. There were a couple who went to us bc we had bauer skates, and there were others who went to us for sharpenings but got their gear there. Most of the time we've noticed that they'd just go to what one they liked better, us or them.

    On a side note, I gotta love what a customer said today. He is from a town that does not have a lhs, and he got pretty Mich everything but a bucket and skates. The owner was talking to a local who was complaining we didn't have an se6 with his curve and flex left in stock. We had that same profile in an s7. He then said he'd just get off line cuz he really wants the se. Well they're not being made anymore and easton is out of stock, even though we wouldn't order one bc it he want it at the new map price. This guy overheard this convo, and was pretty pissed. Tols the guy complaining how lucky this town really has it having a lhs with this kind of stock who has stayed in this town even tho if he left Je could make a lot more money. His town lost their lhs and it sucks for them. After getting told the hit complaining about the se finally kinda got it, and bought the s7. Made my day.

  20. Posted · Edited by raganblink · Report reply

    I gotta rage...

    There is a local, who visits the shop frequently. I'd say a loyal customer, he's bought numerous items in here, has a skate pass, and we see him probably once every two weeks....

    Since October he has came into the shop, roughly once every two weeks, and talks to us about a pair of upper-mid skates (~300-400). He has literally tried on a dozen pairs in that range, and we have spent over 5 hours in-store time helping him. He obviously is trying on every size, width, and model variation for what we have in that price range. We talk about what separates them all etc. We finally got in our CCM 12s last week, and contact him, as the only reason he has said he didn't buy skates from us previously is b/c we didn't have them for him to try on yet. So we're figuring that after he tries those on, he'll decide what one he wants (very picky I know, but anyways)...

    So a couple days after we got in contact with him, he messages us asking how late we are open this weekend, as he has a pair of skates that need to be baked and sharpened. We're thinking maybe that he was going to get the skates from us, and just didnt want to take too long of our time. Nope. Trucker comes into the shop with a pair of one80s, that have not been sharpened. The same width and size we have had in stock this whole time. Reason he didn't get them from us? We'll apparently, as he was in Saint Louis, he visited TotalHockey (our biggest competitor, really) and was trying on skates. And apparently he only paid 340 for them. But here's the kicker, if he actually visited instore, wouldn't he had got them baked and sharpened? knowing full well his LHS charges 25 bucks a pair for non-store bought bake/sharp. So he ended up spending 365 on these + tax. Still a deal in his eyes probably. But he also knows damn full well that we'd knock off some % if it meant having a 380 dollar sale or not having one. Also tax is higher in STL, so he had to spend 380-390 after tax, if he actually did get them for that price.

    Sorry to write a novel. I feel realllly betrayed and angry its not even funny. If he ever does that again with anything he's never welcome back. Infact, I probably shoulda told him we're not sharpening these or baking them, and that he's never welcome back. But being the only sharpener /baker in town, he'd bad mouth us, and then someone would get the idea to get a sharpener and we'd lose a bit of business. Ohwell people get a second chance... this time.

  24. Posted · Report reply

    if they increased MAP pricing 5% higher from wholesale cost than it is now, I think it would help the small LHS tremendously. Granted the big boys would increase their profits by that much more, but, it would allow LHS to have the same prices as everyone else so the playing field would be more level. Granted this would make hockey even more expensive, which, is definately not something anyone wants to see happen.

    Either that, or, companies start taking a hit for those LHS who do a small amount with them annually. The big boys who easily do six-figures + with these companies can't get on this lower pricing b/c they can't afford it. Those LHS who consistantly do a small amount (over a long period of time, so this LHS can't screw the company) year to year start getting those lower prices that the guys who consistantly do half a million year to year. Is it fair to the big boys or the guys in the middle? No. But it would definately make it more feasable for your ma and pa shops to stay in business.

  25. Posted · Report reply

    fair enough. glad the other side is properly explained, definately could see some other guys explain what you said a different way, in a worser explanation.

    I was upset that they used this shop as a fitting service, bought from HM[we had the same colors in stock] (saw the box they through in trash), and the helmet was not properly fitted, as he clearly needed a different brand/narrower fitting helmet based on what I saw happen to him when he fell. Irregardless or not if they come in here for sharpenings, we make our livelihood on selling product rather than sharpenings, so while appreciative that they continue to sharpen here & to get accessories, it still hurts when we lose sales like them. We're definately not big enough to be shurg off a $150 sale. The profit gained in that helmet sale would be greater than sharpening their skates for a season, and that's even if they sharpen everytime here, and do it when necessary instead of waiting like most people do. I'm over it now, we'll sell the helmet within a month anyways, its just annoying when we have the product they wanted and ended up getting, yet choose to get it at HM.

    So you're upset that these customer walked in, kindly declined your assistance (since they clearly did not intend on purchasing from you), then received an unwarranted sales pitch on prices (an attempt by you to drive the sale home in your store, fair enough) and when the customer left you get upset.

    To answer your question:

    A) You said yourself they support you. They have a skate sharpening card. Maybe they ordered other things with the Helmet/Cage and shipping actually came out to a better price in the long run, or you simply did not stock the product they were looking for. Or quite possibly they never ordered off Hockey Monkey and found it cheaper on ebay, or another online retailer (you mentioned they said something about checking other sites).

    B) To their knowledge, they may have fitted they child properly, and clearly believe so as no sane parents willing put their children in danger.

    C) Again, price could be the driving force behind this; it could have very easily come out cheaper if they ordered over 100 of stuff on several websites that offer free shipping. Instant gratification is not always the answer.

    Just showing the flip side of the coin.

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