colins

It's no doubt a marketing decision. Two different markets with different volumes and base requirements, so they are segmenting down those lines. Has pretty much zero to do with the technology itself. The thing that's interesting in your situation is that Monkey Sports in europe is exposing this via their online store. For N.A. customers who deal with Sparx directly, you don't get to see the Commercial / PS100 side for Grinding Rings unless you first buy a PS100 unit. The PS rings and pricing are not viewable on sparxhockey.com as far as I can see. It probably wouldn't be "too hard" for someone to figure out how to hack/modify an ES100 to use PS100 rings. But of course doing so would throw out any chance of having support or warranty. Bottom line is if you want support and you want to use PS rings, you need to buy a PS unit.

I don't think Sparx sells any Cross Grind rings for the consumer ES100 model in North America. They pulled that product from the market early in it's life after issues reported from the amount of swarf it created and the resulting fire hazard I believe.

100% agree with everything darkhors wrote here, my experience has been pretty much identical. colins

The ring should not be dragging, stuttering or stalling at any point across the length of the profile. If it is, there's too much pressure/drag being encountered. Use the risers and adjust the height until you get a nice smooth consistent sound (pitch) from the ring the entire length of the profile. I've been sharpening that way with my Sparx for three years now, my profiles are perfect and so are my Step and LS3/LS5 steel.

The Sparx was calibrated for the majority of steel in the wild when it was created a few years ago. And not just for new steel either, for the average partially worn cheap short steel in 90% of skates out there. It's pretty adjustable to any situation with the height adjustments it provides. That said, the answer for tall (LS3/4/Step/etc) brand new steel is simple - use the risers. I don't know why some folks seem to have an aversion for using the risers. Use the risers, or move the skates up higher in the clamp (don't bottom them out on the holders) and you make tall steel look just like 'average' steel to the machine and your problems go away. colins

Both work. Choose which one suits you best. colins

The P40 is short. And the P14 is short. But I didn't notice any difference in length between the P88 and P30. I would put all of P88/P30/P92/P19/P90T in the "medium" length category as far as overall blade length goes.

Can we make this a weekly game on modsquadhockey? Someone posts 3 curves and it's left to the viewer to correctly guess which is which? lol colins

I would have guessed the same as boo10 to be honest. To my eye the P28 retail is on the right. So switch the other two, P90T on the Left and P28 pro stock middle? Hard to see in the 3 pic because of the shadows cast on each other. If that's right then he bottom pic is missing the P28 retail. I'm more convinced than ever that a bunch of sticks in the wild have no P90T label from the factory but are being sold and referred to as P90T, therefore anytime some is talking about a P90T it could be one of a variety of similar but not identical curves. Is the P28 pro stock labelled as a P28? Or was it just sold as that?

1) Daoust 501 2) Bauer Supreme 100 3) CCM Jetspeed

To summarize: I know the P30 is very much like a P88 until you get to the toe, then the toe kinks and is open, unlike the P88. I *think* the P90T is also very much like a P88 until you get to the toe, it also kinks and is open, like the P30 and unlike the P88. If anyone has both a P30 and a P90T in their hands and can compare and provide pics side by side I'd be interested particularly in any lie difference and the square or roundness of the toe between the two. colins

@Ryan91330 Here’s a pic of a P90T ordered from hockeystickman that my son is using. It’s a CCM pro stock from the WHL. Coming from a P88, he says he loves this curve.

No but I based it on this document from CCM, which again is somewhat contradictory (they describe the P90T as inbetween P28 and P29) but the pic they use from hockeystickman is identical to what I see as the P30, flat rocker, mid curve just like a P88, toe kink. This document was written a couple years ago before CCM launched the P30 at retail, so I'm just putting 2+2 together. I have seen and compared a retail P30 in store to a P88 and P92 so I know what the P30 is like 100%, but I haven't yet got my hands on a P90T. The P30's I've seen look just like the pic below (always hard to tell with only one angle shown).

P30 is the retail version. P90T the pro stock. It's a CCM thing - P29 is retail, P90 is a pro stock P92 clone. P88 is retail, P80 is pro stock. Makes no sense to me, but that's how they do it. Big problem as well with the pro stock P90T - if you search sideline swap for P90T curves, and have a look at the pics, it seems to me a lot of sellers are selling pro stock sticks that have no curve labelled on the stick as "P90T" , I assume because it looks similar to them. There's a wide variety of "P90T" curves for sale there that don't look the same in the pics to me, a lot of them not labelled on the shaft as P90T. Buyer beware. The most complete CCM chart I've seen is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g0UwtZ8BHbBI10cG9z4YMXvS0UmP28u4/view Notice there is no P90T listed - I'm not sure if CCM actually labels any sticks as P90T, maybe it's just Bauer using that code on pro stock. The P30 is described as "Very close to P88 but different toe (kink and toe)". colins

On hockeystickman.com the P90TM is described as the Max Height version of the P90T pro-Benn aka P30 curve. Which makes perfect sense. The P90T Benn is like a P88 in lie and closed nature from the heel to the mid curve. Then it adds an open toe kink, which is where it can somewhat be compared to a P29/P92/P28, which have more toe than the P88 does. If you love stickhandling/backhands and passes with a P88 but wish you had an open toe/pocket to work with for toe drags and shots where you pull the pull towards your body and snap it, the P30/P90T might be for you. But - if you like the high lie and curved rocker of the P29/P92, it's probably not for you. The real confusion comes in when you add the P90 and P90M to the mix. These are CCM specific pro-stock P92 and P92M max height clones. Real clones, not P29 "almost the same" curves. Like I said, curve names have really gone to shit. Having different pro stock curve names vs. retail curve names of the same pattern serves what purpose? It just makes everything more confusing. Burn it all to the ground and start over CCM/Bauer/Warrior/True/etc. colins

I haven't seen a P90TM but I assume it's the Max height version of the P90T. Not to be confused with the P90, which is a CCM P92 clone, sometimes referred to as the pro stock version of the P29. Curve names were bad enough when people referred to them by player names (which kept switching between vendors), but I'm not sure but it's getting worse now - I mean I guess the rationale behind the P90T name was 'T' meant 'Toe', BUT the P90T/P30 is more based on a P88 with a toe kink (in terms of lie and closed-ness) than a P90/P29. Good grief CCM! colins

This is where the numbers are pretty much meaningless. Bauer's P88 is a lie 6 but so is the default P92 but their lies are not even close to being the same. For comparison, in my experience, the P90T and P30 have a lie very similar if not identical to the P88. If you line up their rockers the shafts will be almost directly on top of each other. A P92 (the default 'lie 6' P92, not the pro stock P92 Lie 5) compared to the P88/P90T/P30 will be higher/taller. colins

And me to the list of never having heard that before. I imagine given @ZamboniFever previous experience in medical devices, producing sharpening wheels that don't measure accurately to the hollow they represent doesn't seem likely. Maybe @SparxHockeywould care to comment? colins

No it doesn't. A pass is a pass. And you get 320 per ring, however many 'pairs' you want to translate that to for marketing or whatever - it's 320 passes. colins

This is why it can be hard to tell visually. The outsole can be the piece misaligned. Not that the holder isn't too, but if you are just checking the holder relative to the outsole (which is what the eye is automatically drawn to) that's not the real story. Try measuring from the edge of the holder on both sides to the edge of the boot/heel on both skates and see what the difference (if any) is.

Single rate or dual rate spring, Hooke's law applies doesn't it? The spring in question is mounted at about a 45 degree angle, so the forces aren't vertical, but some grade 12 physics can work out the difference each extra couple mm of spring extension puts on the ring pushing back against the runner. I've never seen @Sparx Hockey Russell Layton weigh in on this, and I'm not an engineer. Russ designed the machine, if he says this is all wrong I gladly stand corrected. I'm just basing the above on my observations and experiments in using the machine at home the past three years. colins

Raise the ring to where it cuts the machine out. Lower it one step at a time and repeat until the first step where it no longer cuts off. Listen to the pass (any chatter? skips? changes in pitch?) and observe the finish (do you see horizontal ticks marks running perpendicular to the runner at the point the sound/pitch of the pass occured?). Now lower it 2 or 3 more clicks and observe the same. Are your observations the same or different? If different, what could account for the difference? colins

I tried my best but couldn't get a clean shot from my iphone with the lighting to show the hollow like that. My finish is similar, but you seem to have some distinct lines running the length of the runner there that I don't see on mine. Is it a new ring? colins

There is no adjustment labelled pressure. But since the ring deflects on the blade via a spring, the amount of deflection and force on the spring determines the pressure of the ring on the blade. So if you move the ring up to hit very high on the toe of the steel, the spring is forced to stretch more on the way down the radius of the toe and that creates more pressure (drag) on the steel down the length of the runner. If you adjust the ring too high, the amount of drag will actually cause the machine to cut off. There's a point where you aren't so high that it cuts out, but you're still too high in that a smooth continuous pass doesn't occur, instead the ring chatters and changes pitch (sound) along the length of the runner. Almost like it's skipping or dragging. You have two ways to influence the ring contact point on the toe of the runner and therefore the amount of spring deflection - move the runner/boot up vertically in the clamp (manually or via the risers), or adjust the ring up or down via the ring height adjustment. colins

The one thing I'd say about burrs and the finish - if you adjust the height for less pressure of the ring on the blade you get better results from the Sparx, based on my experience. If you try to start too high on the toe/heel it can end up riding the blade with too much pressure and dragging/struggling a little (you can tell by the pitch of the sound). Then you end up with more burrs and less clean of a finish. The machine won't cut out on you, and you'll still get an acceptable sharpen, just not as clean. colins