colins

Are your sticks longer, shorter or the same length as his? Higher or lower flex? Assuming the same length and flex, I'd expect most players to not find a W03/P92 better than a P88/W88 for backhand shots. The openness of the W03 towards the toe would typically impact backhand shots negatively vs. the closed nature of the P88 curve. Crosby has one of the best back hand shots in the NHL, using a pretty neutral closed curve, closer to a PM9 than any of the above. Not to focus on the backhands as I'm sure for a D man that's one of the lesser used shots he'll care about - but it just made me think maybe there's other variables at play if he somehow found your stick with a W03 better than his W88 for backhanders.

Oh - he's a D man. Have you looked at the W02? Heel curve, square toe, pretty much a specialty curve specifically for D men.

You could pretty much end the thread here, psulion22 nails it all around. I would just add: - Anyone that likes the P88 and switches to the higher lie P92/W03/P29 probably needs to go an inch or two shorter in stick length to compensate. I used P88 for years and hated the P92 until I realized I needed to play with a P92 a couple inches shorter. The adjustment was needed to give me the right amount of blade I wanted on the ice and to shoot with the puck closer to my body. - CCM P19 is not common at retail anymore but I see it still in team and pro stock sticks - I always found it a great middle ground between the P88 and P92 for someone wanting to transition. It's just a great curve in it's own right. - Bauer's retail P14 (at least on the sr 77 flex 1X's I had) is not only short, but fairly narrow and the toe is tapered a bit too. Overall a small blade. I have a couple prostock NCAA Pat Curry 75 Flex 1S that are unlabelled but look to be a max height P14 variant, and while it's still shorter than a P92 blade, I find it great compared to the retail P14 on the 1X. To the OP - at retail the options are indeed limited. P88, P92 and P28 are pretty much the only 3 curves you can find amongst the big guys in volume across their whole lineup of sticks these days. If you son loves the P88 and is effective with it, I wouldn't necessarily pursue a change that he's not looking for himself. The P88 is not real special for anything, but neither does it have any big downsides. It's a great all around curve for an all around type player, which at age 14 is probably what most kids are going for. Stickhandling, backhand, passing, all excellent with that curve, shooting off the toe is the one area isn't not 'great' for. If he's a playmaker as much as he's a goal scorer, I'd let him stay with it. Out of curiosity what kind of skater is he? Does he get fairly low with a good hip hinge / 'knee bend'? I find those kids are the ones that seem to like the low lie of the P88. The more upright skaters tend to gravitate more to the P92 style lie.

Some Warrior Intermediate sticks are significantly narrower in the shaft than the Sr equivalents. colins

Does anyone feel comfortable in both of these boots? The only way I can wrap my head around that is that they both feel equally mediocre if maybe you have a foot type right in between the two?

100% agree with everything darkhors wrote here, my experience has been pretty much identical. colins

The ring should not be dragging, stuttering or stalling at any point across the length of the profile. If it is, there's too much pressure/drag being encountered. Use the risers and adjust the height until you get a nice smooth consistent sound (pitch) from the ring the entire length of the profile. I've been sharpening that way with my Sparx for three years now, my profiles are perfect and so are my Step and LS3/LS5 steel.

The Sparx was calibrated for the majority of steel in the wild when it was created a few years ago. And not just for new steel either, for the average partially worn cheap short steel in 90% of skates out there. It's pretty adjustable to any situation with the height adjustments it provides. That said, the answer for tall (LS3/4/Step/etc) brand new steel is simple - use the risers. I don't know why some folks seem to have an aversion for using the risers. Use the risers, or move the skates up higher in the clamp (don't bottom them out on the holders) and you make tall steel look just like 'average' steel to the machine and your problems go away. colins

Both work. Choose which one suits you best. colins

The P40 is short. And the P14 is short. But I didn't notice any difference in length between the P88 and P30. I would put all of P88/P30/P92/P19/P90T in the "medium" length category as far as overall blade length goes.

Can we make this a weekly game on modsquadhockey? Someone posts 3 curves and it's left to the viewer to correctly guess which is which? lol colins

I would have guessed the same as boo10 to be honest. To my eye the P28 retail is on the right. So switch the other two, P90T on the Left and P28 pro stock middle? Hard to see in the 3 pic because of the shadows cast on each other. If that's right then he bottom pic is missing the P28 retail. I'm more convinced than ever that a bunch of sticks in the wild have no P90T label from the factory but are being sold and referred to as P90T, therefore anytime some is talking about a P90T it could be one of a variety of similar but not identical curves. Is the P28 pro stock labelled as a P28? Or was it just sold as that?

1) Daoust 501 2) Bauer Supreme 100 3) CCM Jetspeed

To summarize: I know the P30 is very much like a P88 until you get to the toe, then the toe kinks and is open, unlike the P88. I *think* the P90T is also very much like a P88 until you get to the toe, it also kinks and is open, like the P30 and unlike the P88. If anyone has both a P30 and a P90T in their hands and can compare and provide pics side by side I'd be interested particularly in any lie difference and the square or roundness of the toe between the two. colins

@Ryan91330 Here’s a pic of a P90T ordered from hockeystickman that my son is using. It’s a CCM pro stock from the WHL. Coming from a P88, he says he loves this curve.

No but I based it on this document from CCM, which again is somewhat contradictory (they describe the P90T as inbetween P28 and P29) but the pic they use from hockeystickman is identical to what I see as the P30, flat rocker, mid curve just like a P88, toe kink. This document was written a couple years ago before CCM launched the P30 at retail, so I'm just putting 2+2 together. I have seen and compared a retail P30 in store to a P88 and P92 so I know what the P30 is like 100%, but I haven't yet got my hands on a P90T. The P30's I've seen look just like the pic below (always hard to tell with only one angle shown).

P30 is the retail version. P90T the pro stock. It's a CCM thing - P29 is retail, P90 is a pro stock P92 clone. P88 is retail, P80 is pro stock. Makes no sense to me, but that's how they do it. Big problem as well with the pro stock P90T - if you search sideline swap for P90T curves, and have a look at the pics, it seems to me a lot of sellers are selling pro stock sticks that have no curve labelled on the stick as "P90T" , I assume because it looks similar to them. There's a wide variety of "P90T" curves for sale there that don't look the same in the pics to me, a lot of them not labelled on the shaft as P90T. Buyer beware. The most complete CCM chart I've seen is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g0UwtZ8BHbBI10cG9z4YMXvS0UmP28u4/view Notice there is no P90T listed - I'm not sure if CCM actually labels any sticks as P90T, maybe it's just Bauer using that code on pro stock. The P30 is described as "Very close to P88 but different toe (kink and toe)". colins

On hockeystickman.com the P90TM is described as the Max Height version of the P90T pro-Benn aka P30 curve. Which makes perfect sense. The P90T Benn is like a P88 in lie and closed nature from the heel to the mid curve. Then it adds an open toe kink, which is where it can somewhat be compared to a P29/P92/P28, which have more toe than the P88 does. If you love stickhandling/backhands and passes with a P88 but wish you had an open toe/pocket to work with for toe drags and shots where you pull the pull towards your body and snap it, the P30/P90T might be for you. But - if you like the high lie and curved rocker of the P29/P92, it's probably not for you. The real confusion comes in when you add the P90 and P90M to the mix. These are CCM specific pro-stock P92 and P92M max height clones. Real clones, not P29 "almost the same" curves. Like I said, curve names have really gone to shit. Having different pro stock curve names vs. retail curve names of the same pattern serves what purpose? It just makes everything more confusing. Burn it all to the ground and start over CCM/Bauer/Warrior/True/etc. colins

I haven't seen a P90TM but I assume it's the Max height version of the P90T. Not to be confused with the P90, which is a CCM P92 clone, sometimes referred to as the pro stock version of the P29. Curve names were bad enough when people referred to them by player names (which kept switching between vendors), but I'm not sure but it's getting worse now - I mean I guess the rationale behind the P90T name was 'T' meant 'Toe', BUT the P90T/P30 is more based on a P88 with a toe kink (in terms of lie and closed-ness) than a P90/P29. Good grief CCM! colins

This is where the numbers are pretty much meaningless. Bauer's P88 is a lie 6 but so is the default P92 but their lies are not even close to being the same. For comparison, in my experience, the P90T and P30 have a lie very similar if not identical to the P88. If you line up their rockers the shafts will be almost directly on top of each other. A P92 (the default 'lie 6' P92, not the pro stock P92 Lie 5) compared to the P88/P90T/P30 will be higher/taller. colins

And me to the list of never having heard that before. I imagine given @ZamboniFever previous experience in medical devices, producing sharpening wheels that don't measure accurately to the hollow they represent doesn't seem likely. Maybe @SparxHockeywould care to comment? colins

No it doesn't. A pass is a pass. And you get 320 per ring, however many 'pairs' you want to translate that to for marketing or whatever - it's 320 passes. colins

This is why it can be hard to tell visually. The outsole can be the piece misaligned. Not that the holder isn't too, but if you are just checking the holder relative to the outsole (which is what the eye is automatically drawn to) that's not the real story. Try measuring from the edge of the holder on both sides to the edge of the boot/heel on both skates and see what the difference (if any) is.

Single rate or dual rate spring, Hooke's law applies doesn't it? The spring in question is mounted at about a 45 degree angle, so the forces aren't vertical, but some grade 12 physics can work out the difference each extra couple mm of spring extension puts on the ring pushing back against the runner. I've never seen @Sparx Hockey Russell Layton weigh in on this, and I'm not an engineer. Russ designed the machine, if he says this is all wrong I gladly stand corrected. I'm just basing the above on my observations and experiments in using the machine at home the past three years. colins

Raise the ring to where it cuts the machine out. Lower it one step at a time and repeat until the first step where it no longer cuts off. Listen to the pass (any chatter? skips? changes in pitch?) and observe the finish (do you see horizontal ticks marks running perpendicular to the runner at the point the sound/pitch of the pass occured?). Now lower it 2 or 3 more clicks and observe the same. Are your observations the same or different? If different, what could account for the difference? colins