Ice Skates Vs. Roller Skates

[delpiero27 0]

Hi eveybody!

My old Roller Tacks are gone... so since i need new roller skates i was thinking: ice boots with roller frame or a complete roller skate?

i've noticed that nearly all roller skates have vent ports (on toe cap most, but even on tongue and quarters), and ice skates don't. are they really so important? i was considering to buy a pair of Bauer 4000 boots or 652 Tacks or old Easton Ultra Lite Pro, and have them mounted with a red-star frame. The other choice is a pair of Mission He350 or CCM PF4 or Bauer Mega 30-70... any suggestion?

thanks in advance. :D

[#96 0]

I've used both regular roller and conversions of ice to roller. I think the ice boot is a better quality. High end roller skates use the same lasts as mid-range Ice. So if you get a good quality ice boot, it will last a long time. However, roller boots are lighter, and vented. With summer heat, that can be a big difference.

I think in the end it comes down to personal preference. If you got a nice light boot like a Bauer Vapor or CCM Vector, I'd convert those. They are light, and designed to handle sweat/moisture better. If not, I'd go with a roller boot.

[Chadd 916]

By the time you add in the cost of the frame and wheels you are going to add to the ice boot, you can usually get a better quality inline boot for the same money.

[Justin 1933 134]

I've used both regular roller and conversions of ice to roller. I think the ice boot is a better quality. High end roller skates use the same lasts as mid-range Ice. So if you get a good quality ice boot, it will last a long time. However, roller boots are lighter, and vented. With summer heat, that can be a big difference.

Do you just make up this stuff??? Do you even know what a last is? That is really funny to me...

I don't mean to be a jerk, but come on....Don't post wrong info....

Now for the real info:

Ice and Roller boots are very similar (for us) in terms of the materials we use for the internal construction (excluding supple fite skates). However, there are key differences to the way the internal patterns are made/designed. This is the biggest difference (for us) between Ice and Roller.

Roller players have specific needs that are addressed in our roller hockey skates.

There are more and more differences, but I won't go into it...Those who say that Roller skates are downspec'd verse Ice are wrong...

[#96 0]

I'm saying that because I have heard on here, and in my local store that many manufacturers use the same boots/lasts/construction as they do for roller. But that they rarely use their top skates to make roller.

Case in point...The Vector PF10 is not the same boot as the Vector Pro boot, but it is more on par with say a Vector 7.0 or 6.0 construction. I bought a pair of Bauer 30-90's around Xmas and I was told that in terms of construction, the boot was about the same as the mid-level Bauer X series.

If I used the wrong lingo, I apologize. I was trying to convey that a top of the line roller boot may only be about as good as a mid-upper mid level ice boot in terms of construction and quality. That's all. I wanted Delpiero to know that just because he was spending top dollar on roller skates, does not mean he wouldn't get a better skate if he were to get an ice boot and convert. I've converted Bauer 5000, Easton ZAircomp, and Graf G3 and have thought much more of their quality than a D1, Tour Beemer, and Bauer 30-90 in terms of quality. And in terms of price a Mission D1 cost me $399. My Zair Comp cost me about $475. So for only $76 more I was much happier with my Easton conversion than the Mission skate. Just my personal opinion.

[Eazy_b97 1]

I was under the impression the 30-90 skates were based off of the old mega lasts much like the 8090 skate.

[#96 0]

I'm not sure which template they are basing the 30-90 off of. I'm just using it for references in terms of quality, price range, etc., not in terms of boot cuts.

[delpiero27 0]

Ice and Roller boots are very similar (for us) in terms of the materials we use for the internal construction (excluding supple fite skates). However, there are key differences to the way the internal patterns are made/designed. This is the biggest difference (for us) between Ice and Roller.

Roller players have specific needs that are addressed in our roller hockey skates.

There are more and more differences, but I won't go into it...Those who say that Roller skates are downspec'd verse Ice are wrong...

if i don't understood wrong, Justin, ice and roller boots are similar in terms of stiffness and materials. The big difference is that rollers are vented, and ice not.

i don't have a specific experience with roller boots, since i always used ice skates and the only roller i have where just ice boots converted.

i imagine that there are design differences, but since i saw many conversions (expeccially for top-line ice skates) to roller, i was wondering if this conversion really gives you more or it's just a personal preference caused from more ice than roller.

Chadd correctly said that converting an ice boot to roller requires additional money for the frame and weels than a roller sakte, and probably the lump sum of this gives you the opportunity (in terms of money) to swith to a higher line of rollers. but the probelm it's not only on cost. in my case i already have sets of weels, so i don't need them new right now. but i need new skates. so at nearly the same price i have the chance to have CCM 652tacks (or Bauer 4000 or Easton UltraLitePro) vs. Bauer Mega 30-50 (or Mission He350 or CCM PF4).

is it possible to compare those skates?

[delpiero27 0]

I wanted Delpiero to know that just because he was spending top dollar on roller skates, does not mean he wouldn't get a better skate if he were to get an ice boot and convert. I've converted Bauer 5000, Easton ZAircomp, and Graf G3 and have thought much more of their quality than a D1, Tour Beemer, and Bauer 30-90 in terms of quality. And in terms of price a Mission D1 cost me $399. My Zair Comp cost me about $475. So for only $76 more I was much happier with my Easton conversion than the Mission skate. Just my personal opinion.

hey #96, that's why i asked that! :D

i'm using z-air for ice, but for roller i don't want to spend so much money, since i will use roller just for a few times menawhile ice rink are closed (during summer here it's normal... ).

So based that i heard the same as you, (despite from what Justin is saying) that top-line rollers are not the same as top-line ice, i was thinking that mid-level ice boots are in any case better than the same roller... at least in term of stiffness, that is what i'm looking for first of all.

[thunderbirds_are_go 0]

The only match-up I can help you with is the CCM PF4 - CCM 652. If you can get the 652 at the same price (once the chassis and labour and added in), then I'd go for it. The 652 boot is a much nicer boot, stiffer and with way better protection. I'd imagine that the other brands would match up the same. Having said that, I'd be surprised if the costs were the same for each option, unless the ice boots are closeout stock, and if that's the case, why not look at closeout model inlines too?

[#96 0]

I agree with Thunderbirds. If you can get the ice boot equivalent, get it. I tend to think that roller blades are toned down. Although Justin says Mission does not "downspec", in my experience there is no way that the He950 is as good as boot as a Bauer XXX or Synergy skate.

Perhaps I'm comparing apples to oranges (ice to roller) but to me, when people are spending #399 for a roller boot, or $399 for an ice boot, they should be roughly the same in terms of quality. I unfortunately do not find that too often.

[notquitedeadyet 13]

I think there are sometimes issues with the outsoles of ice boots supporting the smaller & narrower footprint of a roller chassis, especially on the newer super-lite skates. There is a lot more leverage on the soles when the chassis is attached closer to the center than when it is attached around the perimeter. I noticed CCM inlines have a thicker outsole than the Vectors have.

[#96 0]

Yeah definately. I have had some troubles with mounting to an ice boot. My Easton Zair outsoles separated abit. Nothing too bad. Kind of like what everyone was complaining about their Grafs doing in ice. The outsole of an ice boot is def. thinner, and not designed to withstand the weight and rigors of attaching a metal chassis. Again, it wasn't a huge problem, but it did happen.

[MDE3 0]

I think Justin speaks for Mission when he talks about the design differences between ice and inline skates, and no doubt he has detailed knowledge of these differences....

In the Nike skate the V12 boot and the Silver series were obviously very similar, In CCM for years...they offered a direct conversion from the 852's 952's etc. etc.

So the point that many inline skates appear to be conversions of ice skates is valid, or has been. As Mission was a 'roller first" company, their development was more specifically geared to designing inline hockey skates than most of their competitiors.....so I can see Justin's point.

What I have seen over the years, and what was a problem for me, was the PVC outsole used in ice skates, without any carbon fiber stiffening. While this worked fine in the cold temperatures of an ice rink, This PVC material tended to soften when used for inline at the higher temperatures seen in this version of the game. So for heavier or more aggressive inline skaters, boots fitted with a this PVC plastic outsole could get pretty uncomfortable after an hour or so on them. The front chassis mounting plate edges used to push through the outsole and create really painfull pressure points for me on the balls of my feet. This was all compounded (the heat) by using skates without any venting..thereby trapping even more heat in an ice boot conversion.

In addtion, the glues used to bond the boot uppers to the outsoles in ice skates, may not be as effective in a roller application, again as they were designed to work where the boot was not as much of a "heat sink", and where the glues were constantly cooled by the ice spray. Outsole separation with ice skate conversions has thus a higher possibility.

If you are doing a conversion..try to be sure that the outsole has some carbon fiber stiffening, and is not just a simple PVC plastic outsole.....for lighter players this may not matter so much, but for heavier players it can certainly become an issue.

[Stampede 0]

I've been playing roller for over 10 years and had all the boots you can imagine.

For my money converting an ice boot has always had better results. They last longer and feel more well made.

I appreciate some of you out there work for the manufacturers and know exactly what goes in them, but from a players point of view I would always convert ice boots because although costly.... you get what you pay for

[delpiero27 0]

MDE3 i have the same concerns as you about the outsole, but looking at mission specs, only the He950 doesn't have pvc outsole... maybe this is question for Justin, but probably in their research they consider that the stiffness of the outsole is coming even from the aluminum (or metallic) frame plates. my old tacks were just a conversion from an ice skate, ad they have a pvc outsole. soft like a chewing gum right now.

maybe the glue problem is real as you said, because #96 experienced some separation between outsole and boot, but that happens sometimes even on ice so probably it's only a "defect" of the boot and nothing else, and it can be repaired without problems.

what i am concerned right now is that a carbon fiber like outsole can be damaged from the bigger stress of an aluminum frame instead of a plastic holder...

in any case yes, i was thinking that switch because some ice skates are on clearance, so the price range allows to have the option...

[Justin 1933 134]

PVC outsoles are on our $149 skates and below. Our thin "Sensory" outsoles are not PVC. There are different levels of Sensory outsoles, ranging from Carbon to Glass to Mesh. All are much stronger than PVC.

In terms of outsole seperation, we have found that roller skates have a higher rate of seperation, due to the fact that the torsional stress in a roller hockey skate is much higher than an ice skate.

I will tell you this much...Our new Roller skate, including wheels and chassis, will be the most expensive skate (in terms of actual manufacturing costs, not retail) ever produced for Ice and Roller (based on our estimates). We put the best of everything we could think of, so that people would not think there was anything better...Nothing was left out.

I may have been a little harsh in my first post, but I just want the information people get to be correct...Unfortunately no other manufactures come on this site to discuss their product....

I can't wait till the new line comes out, as it has been a rough one...When you try to innovate, sometimes you fall flat on your face...2006 will definitely be a return to Mission's dominace in Roller Hockey....

FYI, I am only working Mission Roller Hockey now...This will mean better products, increased product offerings, more R&D, and a return to the high quality Mission...100% Focus....

[delpiero27 0]

thanks Justin, and sorry, you are right ( :P ), only from He350 down have pvc outsole.

i imagine that there are sure strong reasons to have ice boots and roller boots. but the fact could even be only for commercial reasons, not only for technical ones. have a line of roller skates that basically are the same as ice could result in people thinking that there is poor work behind, and that the manifacturer tries only to enter in a market from the backdoor... or on the other hand people could think that roller are just below in terms of specs from the ice ones. it's more difficult that someone will think that ice are below from roller. because i think that the most common consideration is that roller is basically a b series sport when ice is an a.

in any case that is what im my small experience talking with other guys.

but stated of what you saying, there is no particular reasons other than personal preference to swap a pair of ice skates into roller ones. and best of all, roller are specific made, same as ice. probably the only reason is that when you feel grat inside an ice boot, you're scared to be nice even inside a roller boot...

i appreciate very much your presence here Justin, really.

wish many other brands will do the same in future. But probably they feel themselves too high to talk with common people...

[#96 0]

Justin,

I think your harshness in your 1st post was directed at me. I wasn't upset by it whatsoever. I'm certainly not in the manufacturing industry, and I don't know everything about making skates. But you corrected me and offered some info about the differences in Ice/Roller. Your criticism was constructive. Plus, I don't want to spread mis-information. But as this thread developed, I think everything understood what I was trying to say, top of line roller is not necessarily top of line ice, and you can get a good boot by converting.

I am very anxious to see the Mission lineup. I'm sure everything will look great and perform very well.

[thunderbirds_are_go 0]

...but to me, when people are spending #399 for a roller boot, or $399 for an ice boot, they should be roughly the same in terms of quality....

Are you meaning $399 for a pair of inline skates vs a pair of ice skates? I'd never expect the inline boots to be as good as the ice boots simply because the stuff under the boot on an inline skate is going to be a lot more expensive than the stuff under an ice boot, and the cost difference has to be made up somewhere.

Maybe Mission does use the technology from it's top ice boot in it's top inline boot, but I'm pretty sure the likes of CCM and Bauer use the technology from their second model down (or there-abouts) for their top model inline boot. I've got the CCM Mavericks and used to have the CCM Externo E-40's, and they were very similar boots, though the inline was the second from top model and the ice boot the third from top.

[ash_96 0]

I'm not sure how much of this is fact or whatever, but in my opinion ive always found ice skates to be a lot stiffer than roller skates and they are usually quite low cut compared. ive had 4 pairs of missions, and the last 2 have totally fallen apart, and the pair i have at the moment are wearing down fast.

Thats why, for my next pair, ive decided to get a pair of Bauer XI's converted. ive always found ice boots to be more durable. and generally stronger.

like i said, this isnt fact just my opinion. it might just be that i havent found the right inline skates yet.

[Eazy_b97 1]

The Pro-R skate?

[ash_96 0]

yeah ive heard about the Pro-R's but havent seen them, could someone post a link for me?

Also living in England, i dont get too much choice for kit.

[Eazy_b97 1]

http://www.hockeygiant.com

[ash_96 0]

Nice one, i think thats just what im looking for. is it exactly the same as the XI boot, or just similar? does anyone know whats different if it is? thanks for the help.